Ken
antelope,#2UPDATE Employee
Mon, October 04, 2010
First off let me say that some mis-information may be the culprit here. The Mitchell labor estimating guide is not the endall to what is an appropriate time a job can be performed in. Also there are 2 labor rates for each job, a warrantee rate and a standard rate. The warantee rate is based on how much time a part takes to replace at the factory on the actual assembly line, not an easy time to beat as the part is already accessable. The standard rate on the other hand is derived by technitians useing only hand tools (IE no electric or air driven tools of any kind). these times are allways being updated and are very accurate, also these repairs are being done by highly skilled professionals, and the use of a stop watch is employed. when the tech is finished with one step the time is stopped, until the tool is selected for the second step of the repair procedure anbd that step is timed...rinse and repeat till repair is completed...a tedious process.
No job that calls for 4 hours can be done in one hour, that is just embellishmsnt, even on my best day in over 22 years experience, my productivity has never been over 200%. That means for any job that calls for an hour I have been consistantly beating that time by half, using air and electric tools, that I have spent a small fortune on, so I could beat the labor rates.
There are many such labor guides available , however Mitchell is used by Ford, GM and Chrysler dealers, at least in the Detroit metro area.
In summation, as time is a mechanics enemy we invest heavily in tools, education and the experience we gain to shorten the time it takes to perform certain tasks. My education cost me 22,000 18 years ago and I have a tool chest worth more than the average home in any midwest state. So do not use labor estimating guides as a focus for bashing a companys service charges, there are and will always be disputes on labor times, even simple mistakes during the lookup of a particular job, however those are human errors at time of service, and at least at my location easily credited when found.
#30
Thu, January 03, 2002
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:
Their email: [email protected]
Their name: Mike
Their relationship to the company: Devotee
Rebuttal:
First of all i'm not and idiot! I tried to explain how the Mitchell Guide works. And we are not a bucnch of monkeys like you stater Mr Editor. I will conceed there are some shady places to have your car repaired. And Pepboys is not always right. No one is. And if you were so mechnically inclined Mr. Editor you might take a look under the hood of your own vehicle and try to fix it yourself. No you wouldn't try because you havent got a clue! You probably dont even know where your owners manual is!!
I didn't say the Mitchell Guide was "LAW" it is a guide used by most every repair shop.
Now as for your repair and them telling you could not take the car for another 3 or 4 hours because the book said so is just plain stupid. And obviously you werein the wrong place to begin with.
So step down off the horse you rode on Mr. "High and Mighty" and think about things a little more. Instead of banging me for your re;re;rebutal.
In short take you vehicle to the dealer for all your repairs and see if you still feel the same way!!!!! Because the charge you for everything including wiper blade installation!!!!!
EDitor's Comment to the above REBUTTAL
Not only have I never looked under the hood of my car, but I never even changed a tire on a car. I never kept a car that long I would have to do so. You're right again. I never look at an owner's manual. My time is too valuable.
Here is a copy and paste of what you said about the Mitchell guide, .."For any corporation run repair shop it is illegal to use anything other than the Mitchell Guide" ..you say it's illegal. What does that mean? There must be a law involved if it is illegal. It is this type of double talk that gets you in this type of trouble. The same BS double you give to the consumer as to what repairs are needed. Talking BS becomes a way of life. I understand.
There is absolutely nothing I said or do here at the Rip-off Report that even suggests that I think I'm high and mighty! I've spent my time helping consumers, mostly without compensation over the last 3 years and the web site helps thousands of consumers a week save money from all types of rip-offs.
I usually use dealers for all my repairs. Dealers screw you one way while the other Fortune 500 shops (the chains) screw you another way. Question is, who is screwing the consumer more? At least dealers screw you with competent mechanics.
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#40
Wed, January 02, 2002
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:
Their email: [email protected]
Their name: mike
Their relationship to the company: Devotee (PepBoys employee)
Rebuttal:
The Mitchell Guide is used by everyone in the automotive repair, not just by Pepboys. For any corporation run repair shop it is illegal to use anything other than the Mitchell Guide. It is what it is..a guide. It is the average time needed based on the experience and the repair at hand are how the times are assessed. Now there have be instances on where the Guide
has been incorrect. And most times it favors the owner of the vehiclein for repair.
I work for the same company and I have lost money doing jobs and I have made money also. When the guide is wrong the person quoting the job should know and make the neccessary adjustments prior to informing the customer to the cost of the repair. Also, just because the book says it takes an hour for the repair doesnt always mean it will take an hour. Some times it takes less and some times longer. Its not an exact science time for repairs. Consider the vehicles condition and what the repair is. Meaning the car has alot of rust in the area of repair which makes disassembly and reassembly much more fragile extra time may need to be taken in order to preserve some of the parts need for repair. Such as front end repairs for example.
I believe in showing the customer their vehicle and where the repairs are need to be done before any work is done. Unfortunately that is not always an option. Being that the customer may not be present.
I assure you that a repair
such as costly as yours would arouse some questions and in that maybe a closer look needed to be taken. The customer always has the right to see the old part(s) and take them if he or she would like. But is not a commonly used by customers. It is not
offered or assumed that to be the wishes of he or she.
::::::::::::::::::::
EDitor's Comment to the above REBUTTAL
I have never heard more drivel, even from carnival peddlers. What planet are you from? I am going to take your load of crap apart bit by bit. The Mitchell Guide is no better than the Better Business Bureau, supported by and advocated for those businesses (and mechanics) that fund them. There are several lies you have perpetuated about the Mitchell Guide and I'm going to show you and all our readers why.
You say it is illegal not to use the Mitchell Guide. You are either an idiot or think we are. What, is it a Guide or a Law? Are you saying Congress put into law the use of the Mitchell Guide that mechanics must use when estimating and charging for repairs? Not only are you a liar, but an idiot for thinking we could believe such a crock! What is the name of the law that requires its use? You can't tell us because it ain't true. Mitchell Guide is supported by the businesses and mechanics that pay the fees to use the book, so yes, it's their official (corrupt) guide! No law!
Next, I never say "never" about anything, however I make an exception in this case. The Mitchell Guide NEVER comes out in favor of the consumer. I defy you to come up with one example. Unless the mechanic is more stupid than a monkey, there is no procedure that takes longer than the standard in the Guide. I have personal experience as well as the testimony of others to support this position.
About 3 years ago, I brought my car in to be fixed. The service associate said it would take a minimum of 4 hours to do the repair. I came by the dealership about an hour later to meet my ride, and noticed my car was down off the lift. I asked the mechanic if the car was done, he said, "yes," I said, "great!" The mechanic stated to me that he did not think I could take my car for another 3 hours or so. I asked, what do you mean? He then said, "the (Mitchell) book calls for 4.5 hours and we cannot release the car." I then went to my service associate and he said, " NO, we cannot release the car for another 3 hours. He stated the book calls for about 4.5 hours and they were only going to charge for 4 hours. I said, "NO F....N' way!" We went back and forth and I just took the car from the lot without their knowledge. The car repairs were under my extended warrantee and I was not paying for it anyway.
I then investigated what I had been told. Since I'm a Consumer Advocate and general pain-in-the-butt to businesses that rip off consumers, I called several mechanics I've known from over the years. I went to see or called Cadillac, Pontiac, Ford, and went to two different Pep Boys, Firestone and Sears. They all admitted, the Mitchell Guide book is in favor of the mechanic averaging about 2 to 3 times over the actual repair time. The normal procedure always has the customer pick up the car at least an hour or two after the Mitchell Guide's estimated time.
Your entire REBUTTAL, above, is bogus. Your either a mechanic or an owner of some sort of a repair shop where you use this so-called legally-sanctioned Mitchell Guide. It is a common practice for businesses that appear on the Rip-off Report to file bogus REBUTTALS like the one above.
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