Hi Boys & Girls,

Saying there isn't a problem in the NADN/Oryan nightmare is like saying there aren't any Os in Google. You all are saying very familiar things, so here's a cross section of the story from my household.

The tax quest began with NADN because we were about to sell our previous house that was held as income property. We had heard that recapture on depreciated property was complicated.

The 101 Hot Tax Tips tape begot the phone calls. Play upon fears of the IRS got us into the tax prep/prepaid audit protection boat. We did try to get out as well, but were strung along beyond the 30-day window by the no response to phone calls tactic. We ultimately accepted our fate and thought that it might turn out to be an okay deal after all.

The phone calls begot the hard-sell, complete with skillfully placed lies, inferences and assorted well honed pitches. Like many I d thought of starting a home business. Unlike many I knew exactly what that business would be and that it was on the horizon but off in the distance. Because I tend to be cautious I had also thought of placing that business in a corporation. I did not want to start my business for at least 5 to 8 years with an eye on having it up and running for a retirement business.

Then the mallforall idea was brought to the table. The hard-sell begot the sweetening of the pot with promised add-ons. This household without the protection of a corporation couldn't even consider this mallforall. The expense of that was out of the question because it was out of reach. Clever semantics and the combining of earlier money with additional money plus empty promises got us to agree to a mallforall inside of a corporation plan. Nice picture of a carrot!!!

So guess how this fairytale goes on from here? . You are good!!!!

The way it was supposed unfold was for the mallforall to be inside an S corporation. NADN was to help us defray the immediate hit of the costs by filing our 2002 electronically with their brand of tax magic. We were also to claim nine (9) on our W-4 forms for the long haul. Our $6,602.95 we were told, or lead to believe, would cover the purchase of the mall (the promissory was understood to cover the remainder of the visually impaired accessibility modification) the difference would cover the sweetened incorporation plus tax representation package of several years (3-4) of audit protection with personal tax preparation. Without question we were strung out past the 30-day mark. We continually phoned to get an invoice. That invoice didn't materialized.

Paperwork shenanigans and unanswered phone calls prevented taking action in time to participate in 2002 Christmas sales. Not having the invoice and other information delayed completing and sending the income tax organizer early. We ended up sending the organizer to Mary Orie, Director of Tax & Technical, without that information. We cited that they had the information in-house. During one of the numerous calls requesting the invoice, we were informed that they do not file electronically. Due to the delay we did not meet their deadline and they filed an automatic extension on our behalf. While discussing the tax organizer with our tax preparer it was found that the mallforall was not a part of the S corporation. There is a book that can be written on that problem, the letters and attempts and why it is still that way.

I didn't mention that the name of the corporation was supposed to use the first three letters of my wife's name and the first three letters of mine. Three letters from two people is not an easily misunderstood idea. If you have more than six letters you have a mathematical problem (If you do taxes for a living and have problems with simple math you don't have much credibility). CHEGAR was supposed to be pronounced like sugar. Well we are named Chegarine which is not as sweet. Not the normal attention to detail that you would expect from a group charged with incorporating you. Not the type of detail expected after a $6,602.95 outlay. But I almost hear you thinking, It's the level of service that NADN provides. Our's is a corporation with nothing in it, delivered by paid consultants who didn't call to consult.

So, how about that Oryan Management/mallforall & shop'n2000 thing? Look, it should be a profitable business and thanks to my wife's persistent letters and e-mails it may be heading that way. Sometime in the past few days the format was changed again. It looks like it is very promotable in this form as long as it will function properly and should become profitable. Oryan may not be the main reason why we arrived here. They are the ones who NADN, through whatever they wooed with, has us owing money to. Consider that Oryan may be NADN clients or victims as well.

For other owners, your mallforall/shop'n2000 has not been profitable because it has been unreasonably dysfunctional. That, along with the misinformation that we were given by NADN, is the main obstacle to making this a workable business.

The mallforall is in my wife's name, until recently I have been unable to get involved.. There is a CD-R and a pile of documentations on paper, 5 inches thick, which has amassed from various sources since the November changeover. A backpage newspaper ad was run for 4 weeks for my wife's mall buring the Holidays. Only 15 hits were generated because the site was barely navigable and not user friendly.

Many of those hits came from me trying to fill my holiday list. I am not the only one that was a sure thing customer for this site. Lots of friends and family had planned on buying at the site for the holidays. I only was able to get to and buy at one site. My daughter and son-in-law couldn't book their $650.00 airline tickets. In addition, many people's reason to purchase at the mall was due to a personal association. This caused a big scramble to substitute items on lists elsewhere. Not only did this cause an immediate sales problem, but also has created a list of former supporters due to confidence issues and I'm sure this has scared away, forever, anyone who responded to the advertising and other types of promotion during that time span.

As you owners may know, tons of sales were lost by you, but Oryan reported record sales.

So, we are riding the same sinking boat. Let me fill in some things about mallforall as noted. It has been found and confirmed by proxy that people were clicking in the "zipcoded" site but redirected to other mallforalls. It is unknown for how long. The other big issue is Accessibility. I'm sure that the altruistic feeling inside of you made the accessibility modification look good. You accepted that the site was properly modified because of the Bobby-AAA and WAI-AAA symbols.

Well we were all sold the same incomplete modification. How can you sell one basement to a bunch of people when they are paying for room additions? How can you do something this dastardly against the handicapped? It was suspected but now confirmed and the reason why this is being written. There is pride associated with helping people with disabilities. There is distain for those who would knowingly mistreat them under the guise of help. Well, take a look, just go to the TEXT ONLY site, copy the URL from the address bar, click on the BOBBY AAA APPROVED seal then enter the URL on the page and copy it. Enjoy!!!

If you are looking at the day old new generation of the mall go to MALL TOOLS/IMPAIRED ASSISTANCE/TEXT ONLY SITE. And in fairness, I think they are working on the site this weekend, but that shouldn't effect the BOBBY report for the content of that page.

The TEXT ONLY section is not working yet today but from web copies it looks like it has never been ADA compliant as paid for. If anyone musters a class action suit there is a lot of documentation in my hands. Find me right here, I'll be checking back in. I'll need to know what kind of proof you are looking for. Please understand that you must, by agreement, continue to promote your site, like it or not.

I do not believe that we can bring suit against them individually due to clauses in agreements. The money that was spent out of pocket and through the promissory note is where your Tax write-offs came from. It may be better to pursue getting them to get the site running in the best possible way to make it promotable. We should also get them to completely drop all monies not associated with those tax write-offs plus any and all interest associated with the promissory note and site for these previous troubles.

Or, judging from all of the people with these problems, maybe we should all get together and have an ongoing SHOWCASE "clicking" party to pay for the promissory notes. If everyone complaining just at "Rip-off Report" did this for each other that would take only one day!!! Ha, ha!!!!!

Gary

Marietta, New York
U.S.A.

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on NADN National Audit Defense Network

Click Here to read other Ripoff Reports on NADN, National Audit Defense Network, With Referance To Oryan Management, Mallforall & Shop'n2000

20 Updates & Rebuttals

Lisa

Tukwila,
Washington,
U.S.A.

NADN bait & switch - Now claims 27,000 Malls sold out

#2Consumer Comment

Thu, April 22, 2004

DON'T BUY IT!!! NADN claims they sold out the malls, yet for the small amount of $3,200 they will "wipe out" the mall note and set you up with a hit generator. I told them they could re-sell my note to someone else and they said they couldn't do that because they only could sell a what the contract allotment said. Two weeks ago they offered a hit generator for $2k and dropped the price to $1,500 if I bought it before I got my taxes back (still waiting). Can you say name that price? This tells me all our notes will be deemed void at some point in time. I am m95959 and I went to a computer with DSL hookup and clicked as fast as I could on the PhGel link and clicked of the note in 3 hrs then I printed a copy of the outbound clicks (check the note sponsors box). This will be proof your note should be credited. When you (if you) get a 1099 then the amount less the note = zippo in income and go party your out. Hopefully a savvy lawyer will file a class action suit will be filed and the original $ note can be recooperated. I am going to take the hit as a business investment loss and move on.

Dorothy

Woodville,
Florida,
U.S.A.

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

#3Consumer Comment

Thu, April 22, 2004

I'm sadened to hear this ongoing tale of unscrupolous, deceptive, manipulative ....... Did you not read the Department of Justice filing that was posted here? Mall For All is "ONE" site sold to 100,000 people. You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing. Now about IRS, the mall is not considered a legitimate business and the credits and deductions were FALSE. We've been scammed, duped, mislead, conned - this is a fradulent scam that has had an action taken by the Department of Justice this month. I encourage you to get the book, from Rip-Off Report that is a do it yourself guide: How to get Rip-Off Revenge and your money back too. We have, what are you waiting for. BTW, NADN did our 2003 tax and then we sent it to a CPA and "nothing" was allowed.

Dorothy

Woodville,
Florida,
U.S.A.

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

#4Consumer Comment

Thu, April 22, 2004

Dorothy

Woodville,
Florida,
U.S.A.

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

#5Consumer Comment

Thu, April 22, 2004

Judith

Denver,
Colorado,
U.S.A.

DON'T SPEND ANY MORE MONEY WITH NADN/ORYAN

#6Consumer Comment

Wed, April 21, 2004

David, Kiss your wife and do not sign that contract! As a matter of fact don't even answer the calls from NADN. Get on the DO NOT CALL LIST and when they call you can file a complaint against them. People have received hundreds of dollars from companies who have violated the DO NOT CALL list. Maybe we all should add that to our list of things to do for this company.

David

New York,
New York,
U.S.A.

NADN kept on calling me.

#7Consumer Comment

Tue, March 30, 2004

Hi Gary/Chris: I have a question for you since you're both involved in this scam. Like I previously wrote, I joined NADN and paid for year 2002 MallforAll package. I also filed my tax in 2003 for it. Furthermore, in 2003, I paid them again for the 2nd website modification, but NEVER signed the Oryan Mgt contract. Therefore, they kept on calling my cell phone and home phone, 2-4 times a day, without leaving any message. This past Saturday, this guy named Jeff Negri (702-617-1304) called me and stated that he wants to "help me to get out of the Mallforall mess." He sounded like he's not with NADN, but how did he get my phone. Hence, I guess he's with NADN so I didn't call him back. In your honest opinion, would you sign that contact from last year? I didn't really want to mess with them anymore so my wife urge me not to sign it, but to take that $3975 as a loss and a big lesson. Therefore, I am having my local accountant treat that as an investment loss. Is that legal? Please help and advise on what I should do! Hey Chris, so how far are you with the IRS defense? Do you have the links for the Denver Newspaper articles on the web? Thank you!

Chris

Littleton,
Colorado,
U.S.A.

I did have the "audit defense" plan ..Their lawyers are also good salesmen that are smooth talkers...

#8Consumer Comment

Mon, March 29, 2004

Gary, I do have their audit defense protection. The guy I spoke to at NADN told me it was going to be a "headache" in tax court. He also made one statement that was something like he wasn't sure about all of the packages the "sales people" had come up with. From the information I was told by NADN, we were only going to be "the beginning" because Denver is among the first regional offices to pick this up. They said if I wanted to move forward with defending it, I should still pay the money "so we wouldn't be responsible for more interest." Reading between the lines - they didn't think they would be able to defend it. Yes, yet another way NADN takes your money - they sell you audit protection for their tax scheme.....then they encourage you to not defend it. I realize that many people are thinking that we shouldn't have paid it, but this came after consultations with the NADN audit defense people, a CPA and the IRS agent that did the original audit. If you do a search of newpaper articles accross the country (especially the Denver papers) you will see how this is really coming about. I also got some inside information that it was a NADN guy that pissed off an IRS agent who got wind of the scheme. They had all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed originally. Then the guy was bragging to his buddy at the IRS about it and boom - we're all getting audited. You are correct that tax avoidance is not a crime, but selling tax scams is a crime. We didn't commit the crime, but we have to be held responsible for taxes we owe also. Legal tax avoidance is one thing, but this isn't. You are welcome to believe all of the propaganda released by Oryan and NADN - bottom line- they are not selling a legal tax package and apparently their audit defense folks are either too busy to deal with small claims or don't think they can win. Their lawyers are also good salesmen that are smooth talkers........

Gary

Marietta,
New York,
U.S.A.

I DIDN'T go to the DARK FORCE

#9Author of original report

Sat, March 27, 2004

David, To your question, "Are you now supporting what NADN and Oryan are doing?" On the contrary, I am asserting that we have been lead somewhere by NADN and am trying to get Oryan to make things right on their end. The two URL's & blurbs are meant to be informative. The first take you to a page that proves that NADN is still saying that it was legal and is still posting it that way. I pointed to it so everyone can copy it for defensive reasons. (I recently found that FAQ in a search, I know sales people at NADN told different stories on other things, there is plently to support that here at Rip-off) The second takes you to where I've challenged Oryan to get the everyone's site working properly, and gave them a place and way to do that. They obviously know that the text only area is not right and has the associated tax based issues because that was part of the package promotion. The text only area needs to become nothing less than what we were sold so that the impaired can use it comforatably and as intended or we should be compansated credited or otherwise made whole so we can get on with business. I am trying to maintain the "goodwill" of the website by inducing Oryan to make it a comfortable place to shop. Chris, Did you have the Audit Defense package "and" they wouldn't represent or defend you on the ADA modifications through their tax preparations??

Mark

Burton,
Michigan,
U.S.A.

If memory serves tax avoidance is not a crime, tax evasion is

#10Consumer Comment

Fri, March 26, 2004

"Tax Avoidence" -- as stated in Title 18 criminal code, United States Code -- It may be possible the IRS is trying to interpret avoidance as a crime, and I'm afraid that the only way to argue this is going to be in the tax court. An example of this would be taxes on cigarettes for instance, if you don't want to be taxed on cigarettes then don't smoke -- this is tax avoidance -- I don't want to get into direct and indirect taxation but sufice it to say, this is my take on it. If somebody can can show me where tax avoidance is in the criminal code, then I would say it's a crime, or at least ask the question, "what is tax avoidance?", or maybe ask,"Is it illegal to avoid taxes?" I say no!!!!

David

New York,
New York,
U.S.A.

Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

#11Consumer Suggestion

Fri, March 26, 2004

Hi Gary: Are you now supporting what NADN and Oryan are doing? If you're Oryan Mgt, would you still partner and work with NADN just for the sake of making money, knowing that NADN is getting consumer's hard earn money unethically, making false promises & never deliver, filed for Chap11, been on NBC news for fraud/scam, etc.? That can bring down your company's (Oryan) image. Just search for "Oryan Management" on www.BBB.org and read their unsatisfactory report. Of course on their site they have to say everything they do is legal. Of course they have to defend their company, orelse they'll be out of job. It's similar to how Kim and Jim (see my previous post above) wanted me to sign my 2003 contract so they can help me "get started" and get my deduction back for 2003. I think it's more like "get hooked" or "get deeper into the hole." So how about Chris' (Littleton, Colorado) post about him having to pay back over $5000 in taxes because what NADN & Oryan are doing is illegal? Has anyone contacted Evan Davis @ [email protected] or (202) 514-0079 ? Or can Evan please respond to this thread and tell us whether NADN & Oryan's practices are legal or not? I would hate to pay back another $5000 in back taxes because of this fraud/scam. And if it's a scam, doesn't IRS help us with the back taxes since we're the consumers? In addition, can someone explain how we're benefiting from joining NADN (in calculated numbers please)? I thought we'll be breaking even if we join them. Thanks!

David

New York,
New York,
U.S.A.

Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

#12Consumer Suggestion

Fri, March 26, 2004

Gary

Marietta,
New York,
U.S.A.

Hey "IRS thing!!!" is this your Glass slipper?

#13Author of original report

Fri, March 26, 2004

Here is the on-line version of what you were told at the oryan-biz FAQ section: Is this legal? Yes. We have presented this tax plan to tax attorneys who have rendered their opinion that this tax plan is legal. Recent court rulings as well as newsletters from the IRS further support this tax plan's basis. If you want to see the full version you may have to do a search, however if you see the URL below, then I have not violated any Rip-off rules: http://www.oryan-biz.com/FAQs.cfm?file=FAQs&p=NADN Was it there? Hats off to Rip-off either way!!! My Rip Report filled in big time while I was gone. I was not MIA, I was doing a hands on with Oryan at Chris Tulino's Shop'n2000 (extravaganza) that many fellow Rippers have been to. If you don't see the URL run a search: http://www.christulino.com/archives/000043.html Was it there? Either way take another article of clothing off in Rip-off's honor. Basically I challenged elements at Oryan to open an "open forum" to mall owners to get things on track (I received potentialy positive feedback). I have a bunch of URLs that I might have posted here but the thought of over a hundred naked ticked-off, "ripped-off" people... well it just ain't right!

Chris

Littleton,
Colorado,
U.S.A.

The IRS thing - as requested

#14Consumer Comment

Thu, March 25, 2004

So our IRS thing - We were actually audited without being notified. The IRS has already decided that the electronic mall is diallowable, so they are auditing and sending a report. You can appeal this, but I was encouraged by the technical department at NADN to not bother because is would be a "headache" and "have to go to tax court." So, we chose to pay it. As I'm talking to more people at NADN, I'm finding out that no one knows what anyone else is doing. It sounds like they didn't bother to talk to the guys in the technical department that sell that have to defend the audits before they sold the malls. What is actually being disallowed is deducting the promissory note in one year. It is against the tax code to deduct a promissory note that is going over many years. We ended up owing back taxes on two years in the amount of the $5400 something deduction and ADA tax credit. It was deemed by the IRS as "tax avoidance." Again, we chose to pay it because we felt we were stupid for getting sucked into a tax scam and figured the government should have it's due. After speaking with Oryan management, if the original purchase price is refunded by whoever you bought it from, they will 100% cancel the contract and promissory note for that year. I purchased the 3rd year from Success Matrix who happily refunded the money, no question asked. They put me in contact with the person at NADN that makes the decisions about the refunds - they still claim no responsibility because everything they did was legal. If it is ruled against in tax court, the will "consider" refunding. The most current advise I have from an outside CPA is that if you are running the mall as a business, you can deduct the business expenses as they occur - not in advance. I must admit that I am still leary of having it show up at all on my tax returns, so I'm sucking up the loss. Hope that helps - I'd be happy to hear any other experiences.

David

New York,
New York,
U.S.A.

Good thing I checked back and read the posts. contact Evan Davis at Dept of Justice (202) 514-0079

#15Consumer Suggestion

Thu, March 25, 2004

Hi Gary and all: Unfortunately I had the similar experience as you all did. I signed up with NADN in March 2002 hoping to start the home based business and save tax at the same time. At that time my wife sensed that it could be a scam, but I went ahead and did it anyway. I found out the way to finish my Promissory Note was to click on the Show Case area. So by the end of Oct/Nov 2002, I paid off my note (good and bad). When the tax time came, I received a 1099-Misc for $7,980.00 from Oryan Management (aka G&J Eagle Enterprise) because that amount counted toward my 2002 income, which I never received. I allowed them to do my tax for 2002 anyway and got some $ back (which I would still get back anyway). Then in March 2003, I got a call from Donald Cagle (brainwashing sales rep) and he convinced me (again) to pay for the second Mall4All modification for $2995 + $750 full marketing fee for a total of $3745. He stated that I would be receiving $1800-$3500/month from the new marketing scheme and added that the marketing fee is about $5990/year, but he discounted for me for only $750. (Whatever!!!) He even said their American Express card system was down so they had to use VISA/MC/bank routing #. I used my new VISA and got deeper into the hole. The next day, I called him and emailed him without any reply. Someone said he went on a business trip (I guess he visited the casinos.) and that was the first and last time I spoke with him. I also called my Visa company trying to make it a fraud charge, but it was too late because they said I gave them the info. I also tried to get my money back from NADN, and of course, they said I had to cancel within 48 hours of the purchase. Again, they tried to convince me that I saved so much last year and it's a great program. After few weeks, I received the contract package from Oryan Mgt, but I just left it on my desk. They did call me 2-3 times to fax back my signature so they can start the modification process, but I NEVER DID! After a long discussion with my wife, my brother, and a friend who's an accountant, they all suggested that I should just make it an expensive lesson and NOT to deal with NADN anymore. Throughout 2003, I kept on receiving calls and voice messages from NADN trying to sell me to form a corporation for my Mall4All business for around $4995. I remember telling a rep to send me the 2003 modification invoice first, then I will consider the corporation (just to see if he would do it or not). As expected, he never called back and never send the invoice. Today (3/24/04) I received a call from a tax preparation lady named Kim Morales, who claimed she prepared my taxes for last year. As usual, she tried to convince me to sign the Mall4All contract so I can get more than $7000 back since I did not click on any of the Showcases. When I asked her more details, she couldn't answer and put Jim Barraza (Director of Marketing for the Gold Hit Generator) on the phone. According to Jim: 1) Donald Cagle got fired because he was misleading customers to buy into the program. 2) The reason for this call was to educate me to understand how the Mall4All full marketing works. 3) NADN is trying to change the culture of the company, so they proactively call customers back with a liasion, Kim in my case. 4) The full marketing fees will allow them to send my site to over 100 search engines throughout the Internet, so I'll be making money very soon. I told Kim that I'll discuss with my wife and speak with her tomorrow. My wife (again) does not believe in anything they said. If we look at the over all picture, we will be either breaking even or lose money in the long run. If I get my $5000 tax credit back this year, I still have over $7000 of promissory note left. When the note becomes 0, I still will pay tax on the income. Plus they'll charge me interest for the note in the long run. So why pay them just to get more headache, trouble, and breakeven at the end. Just imagine if they lure and sign 10 people/day for their initial modification for $4995. And they also get 10 person/day at $3745 each for 2nd/3rd modification. That'll be $49950 + 37400 = $87,350/day. That is crazy. IHi Gary and all: Unfortunately I had the similar experience as you all did. I signed up with NADN in March 2002 hoping to start the home based business and save tax at the same time. At that time my wife sensed that it could be a scam, but I went ahead and did it anyway. I found out the way to finish my Promissory Note was to click on the Show Case area. So by the end of Oct/Nov 2002, I paid off my note (good and bad). When the tax time came, I received a 1099-Misc for $7,980.00 from Oryan Management (aka G&J Eagle Enterprise) because that amount counted toward my 2002 income, which I never received. I allowed them to do my tax for 2002 anyway and got some $ back (which I would still get back anyway). Then in March 2003, I got a call from Donald Cagle (brainwashing sales rep) and he convinced me (again) to pay for the second Mall4All modification for $2995 + $750 full marketing fee for a total of $3745. He stated that I would be receiving $1800-$3500/month from the new marketing scheme and added that the marketing fee is about $5990/year, but he discounted for me for only $750. (Whatever!!!) He even said their American Express card system was down so they had to use VISA/MC/bank routing #. I used my new VISA and got deeper into the hole. The next day, I called him and emailed him without any reply. Someone said he went on a business trip (I guess he visited the casinos.) and that was the first and last time I spoke with him. I also called my Visa company trying to make it a fraud charge, but it was too late because they said I gave them the info. I also tried to get my money back from NADN, and of course, they said I had to cancel within 48 hours of the purchase. Again, they tried to convince me that I saved so much last year and it's a great program. After few weeks, I received the contract package from Oryan Mgt, but I just left it on my desk. They did call me 2-3 times to fax back my signature so they can start the modification process, but I NEVER DID! After a long discussion with my wife, my brother, and a friend who's an accountant, they all suggested that I should just make it an expensive lesson and NOT to deal with NADN anymore. Throughout 2003, I kept on receiving calls and voice messages from NADN trying to sell me to form a corporation for my Mall4All business for around $4995. I remember telling a rep to send me the 2003 modification invoice first, then I will consider the corporation (just to see if he would do it or not). As expected, he never called back and never send the invoice. Today (3/24/04) I received a call from a tax preparation lady named Kim Morales, who claimed she prepared my taxes for last year. As usual, she tried to convince me to sign the Mall4All contract so I can get more than $7000 back since I did not click on any of the Showcases. When I asked her more details, she couldn't answer and put Jim Barraza (Director of Marketing for the Gold Hit Generator) on the phone. According to Jim: 1) Donald Cagle got fired because he was misleading customers to buy into the program. 2) The reason for this call was to educate me to understand how the Mall4All full marketing works. 3) NADN is trying to change the culture of the company, so they proactively call customers back with a liasion, Kim in my case. 4) The full marketing fees will allow them to send my site to over 100 search engines throughout the Internet, so I'll be making money very soon. I told Kim that I'll discuss with my wife and speak with her tomorrow. My wife (again) does not believe in anything they said. If we look at the over all picture, we will be either breaking even or lose money in the long run. If I get my $5000 tax credit back this year, I still have over $7000 of promissory note left. When the note becomes 0, I still will pay tax on the income. Plus they'll charge me interest for the note in the long run. So why pay them just to get more headache, trouble, and breakeven at the end. Just imagine if they lure and sign 10 people/day for their initial modification for $4995. And they also get 10 person/day at $3745 each for 2nd/3rd modification. That'll be $49950 + 37400 = $87,350/day. That is crazy. I am so glad that I checked back and read the posts just to see if anyone posted anything new on NADN. I was hoping people's attitude would change because of what I heard from Jim. It looks like I will join you victims and file a formal complaint to BBB and FTC. I will definitely mention this website so BBB and FTC can see everyone's complaints. Let's all stand together and fight back! Good luck all! David P.S. Have you guys contacted Evan Davis at Dept of Justice ([email protected]) yet? (202) 514-0079

Robert

Dallas,
Texas,
U.S.A.

Request to Chris (Littleton) ...IRS info

#16Consumer Comment

Wed, March 24, 2004

Chris, I would be interested to know more details regarding your IRS experience, especially the details of what items were disallowed.

Evan

Washington,
District of Columbia,
U.S.A.

Contact the Department of Justice

#17Consumer Suggestion

Tue, March 23, 2004

Gary and Dorothy, please contact me at [email protected] or (202) 514-0079 Evan J. Davis

Gary

Marietta,
New York,
U.S.A.

Update to Dorothy's rebutal

#18Author of original report

Thu, March 18, 2004

You were probably lead to believe that all clicks counted as was the case for my wife's mall. It is only the "SHOWCASE" clicks that count. Only one has been being counted from the Sshowcase on the new homepage. Both Showcase "sponsers" in the TEXT ONLY section are getting error screens and not counting. Actually it looks like evreything in the ADA accessible section are getting Error screens. Perhaps your clicks were/are being redirected to another mallforall. There has been problems back to last year with that sort of thing. It's just another case of mixed up information given out by NADN. Just a note to other readers; Anna Mclanahan from NADN called earlier, she's the most recent person that was supposed to send our original invoice from 2002. I last spoke to her on 3/1 following up on Bob Cooper's same promiss on 2/17. Still no invoice. She was supposed to call back. No 1099 from Oryan for 2003 and no check from December yet either.

Dorothy

Woodville,
Florida,
U.S.A.

Response to Gary

#19REBUTTAL Owner of company

Wed, March 17, 2004

Gary, FYI, according to NADN, the "clicks" NO LONGER COUNT. Now there is no way to "click" down the promissory note, which is "growing w/interest. I'm going to look into the NADN+complaint+database. We've not had "any" sales at our MallForALL, we have made a few purchases, but the % we are to receive is so small as to be an insult.

Gary

Marietta,
New York,
U.S.A.

NADN/Oryan/Mallforall/SShop'n200 - I'll show you mine if you show me yours

#20Author of original report

Tue, March 16, 2004

To Chris's Rebuttal: We need to have a more complete database and there is an easy way to do it. Do this everywhere you file a complaint on the internet. If you have a mallforall Identify yourself as "M" plus your mall zipcode. (example my wife's would be M14224) If you have a Shop'n2000 Use an "S" plus your mall zipcode (S-----). NADN problem + your home zipcode = (N-----). Then somewhere in the header or text of your complaint use "complaint" and "database" and your choice of NADN, Oryan, mallforall or shop'n2000. I am pretty sure this will work. (Use the word "rip-off" in your text too in honor of this site)) Then if we run a search for NADN + complaint + database we will be able to track and document the various problems in the event of a class action suit. We should also be able to visit each others (everyones) site to cross-check and document any problems such as the "TEXT ONLY", search features or "SHOWCASE" Items. For example the "NoMo Odor" in the SHOWCASE wasn't recording in the backoffice Note Sponser Tally and NADN link in TEXT ONLY was getting "ERRORS" (maybe it's a sign). Right now if you run the NADN + complaint + database in a web search you will see that the FTC has a database going for NADN already. I'm going there. I would like to see this cleared up without a lawsuit but it looks like NADN/Oryan aren't stepping forward on their own. See you on the net,

Chris

Littleton,
Colorado,
U.S.A.

Your note is helpful - other ideas?

#21Consumer Comment

Mon, March 15, 2004

Hi Gary, You are correct that we are probably somehow going to have to get this promissory note paid off. My issue - the IRS already audited and disallowed it. So, I have already paid for the mall, had it completely disallowed, have to pay back taxes for two years, and now will have to pay taxes on the 1099 for the promissory note payoff through the advertising. This is far from the "positive cash flow" we were supposed to get from this mall from the get go. Any suggestions how to deal with this?

Reports & Rebuttal

Complaint Review: NADN National Audit Defense Network With Referance To Oryan Management Mallforall & Shop'n2000 - Las Vegas Nevada

NADN, National Audit Defense Network, With Referance To Oryan Management, Mallforall & Shop'n 2000 Ripoff Fraud Scam Liars Las Vegas Nevada

*Consumer Comment: Your note is helpful - other ideas?

*Author of original report: NADN/Oryan/Mallforall/SShop'n200 - I'll show you mine if you show me yours

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Response to Gary

*Author of original report: Update to Dorothy's rebutal

*Consumer Suggestion: Contact the Department of Justice

*Consumer Comment: Request to Chris (Littleton) ...IRS info

*Consumer Suggestion: Good thing I checked back and read the posts. contact Evan Davis at Dept of Justice (202) 514-0079

*Consumer Comment: The IRS thing - as requested

*Author of original report: Hey "IRS thing!!!" is this your Glass slipper?

*Consumer Suggestion: Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

*Consumer Suggestion: Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

*Consumer Comment: If memory serves tax avoidance is not a crime, tax evasion is

*Author of original report: I DIDN'T go to the DARK FORCE

*Consumer Comment: I did have the "audit defense" plan ..Their lawyers are also good salesmen that are smooth talkers...

*Consumer Comment: NADN kept on calling me.

*Consumer Comment: DON'T SPEND ANY MORE MONEY WITH NADN/ORYAN

*Consumer Comment: Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

*Consumer Comment: Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

*Consumer Comment: Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

*Consumer Comment: NADN bait & switch - Now claims 27,000 Malls sold out

20 Updates & Rebuttals

NADN bait & switch - Now claims 27,000 Malls sold out

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

Wake up Folks! You can "click" to your hearts content, but you will accomplish nothing

DON'T SPEND ANY MORE MONEY WITH NADN/ORYAN

NADN kept on calling me.

I did have the "audit defense" plan ..Their lawyers are also good salesmen that are smooth talkers...

I DIDN'T go to the DARK FORCE

If memory serves tax avoidance is not a crime, tax evasion is

Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

Supporting NADN & Oryan Mgt???

Hey "IRS thing!!!" is this your Glass slipper?

The IRS thing - as requested

Good thing I checked back and read the posts. contact Evan Davis at Dept of Justice (202) 514-0079

Request to Chris (Littleton) ...IRS info

Contact the Department of Justice

Update to Dorothy's rebutal

Response to Gary

NADN/Oryan/Mallforall/SShop'n200 - I'll show you mine if you show me yours

Your note is helpful - other ideas?

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