Complaint Review: Arizona Farm Owners & Business - Mesa, Queen Creek, Gilbert Arizona

Our entire system in America is a complete lie. The lie is being exposed. The exposure is creating opinions; negative opinions. These negative opinions will soon trigger a massive economic collapse. Nothing can stop it. Just watch!

Thank you for starting this site where people can voice their complaints. It’s very sad that the Mainstream Media is protecting the corrupt people who control the corrupt corporations that control our corrupt government, which is ultimately being controlled by the corrupt Banking Cartel.

The real disease in America is this: fraud, greed, deception, manipulation, trickery, deep corruption, and the constant pursuit to financially injure the innocent people living in America and all over the world.

”The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you have to EXPLODE.” - Bob Dylan 

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AND AT LEAST THESE PEOPLE HAVE JOBS AND SOMEPLACE TO STAY WHERE THE COPS DON'T COME AND HARASS THEM AND PUT THEM IN JAIL AND CONFISCATE THEIR MONEY AND DUMP THEIR BELONGINGS ON THE GROUND FOR OTHER HOMELESS PEOPLE TO TAKE WHILE THEY MAKE UP CHARGES TO JAIL THE HOMELESS PEOPLE, WHERE ARE THE HOMELESS PEOPLE GOING TO GO WHEN THERE ARE NO JOBS AND LAY-OFFS ARE SO HIGH??? WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO??? I AM TERRIFIED THAT I AM GOING TO END UP LIKE THEM! THERE ARE 50 WORKERS APPLYING FOR EVERY JOB HERE SO FAR, I HAVEN'T SEEN ON SINGLE JOB THAT THIS ALLEGED ECONOMIC STIMULUS PROGRAM HAS PROVIDED -- NOT A JOB FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE ANYWAY. WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS MORE UNEMPLOYED, MORE PEOPLE DISCARDED FROM THE WORK FORCE AND TOO DISCOURAGED TO EVEN TRY AFTER CONSTANT REJECTIONS

The illegal immigration (or more technically correct "non-immigrant alien") problem is causing quite a disaster here in the United States. It must come to an end. As someone said, surely these illiterate (even in their own langauge) people are not going to take my engineering job. But, they do take jobs from the poorest Americans...the working poor unskilled laborers. This doesn't excuse the acts of businessmen who hire illegals. There is plenty of blame to go around. Making a defense for illegal immigrants isn't right either. If you want America to import poverty, by all means please let more illegal, illiterate, peasants come in from South of the border. I can't think of a better way to decimate the middle class in the long term. The more illegals are admitted into our country, the more schooling, healthcare, and infrastucture they'll use...at your expense. You'll pay to educate their children...just so their children can compete with yours for the jobs of the future. In case you make the mistake that I'm anti-immigrant, nothing could be further from the truth. My wife is an immigrant. I make a delination between legal and illegal immigrants. Bottom line, if you're illegal and don't want to be taken advantage of, go stand in line at the immigration office like everyone else. If you're a businessman who exploits illegals, as far as I'm concerned you should go directly to jail without passing "go".

The TRUTH about where your jobs are going is NOT about people like these who have been cowed and scared by much worse back where they came from in Mexico and throughout the Spanish-speaking countries in the Western Hemisphere and are having to exist in SUBHUMAN conditions..NO WAY! In case YOU ha ven't noticed my friend, in Bush's America there were going to be TWO classes of people --the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS. And if you haven't managed to steal your money and not get caught at somehing by a rival gang of rich thugs and criminals. then you were going to be a HAVE NOT --just like THESE PEOPLE. THESE PEOPLE ARE HOMELESS. THEY ARE NOT FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE HOMELESS PEOPLE ON OUR OWN AMERICAN STREETS! THE JOBS THAT AMERICAN WORKERS USED TO DO ARE BEING SHIPPED OVERSEAS TO PEOPLE IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES AND PRISON CAMPS--LIKE IN CHINA AND OTHER LOVELY, NICE PLACES WITH WONDERFUL HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS.WHY? BECAUSE BIG GREEDY, CORRUPT, CROOKED CORPORATIONS ( FRIENDS OF BUSH I & II, CHENEY,CARTER,CLINTON AND ALL OF THE BUSINESS AS USUAL CROOKS) COULDN'T ABUSE OUR WORKERS THE SAME WAY THEY COULD IN THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES WHERE BRIBES TO THE RIGHT POLITICIANS GO A LONG WAY IN CAUSING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY --Hmmmm. KIND OF LIKE THE BUSH EEOC, EPA,WAGES AND HOURS, OSHA AND ALL OF THE OTHER PLACES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING OUT FOR AMERICAN WORKERS' RIGHTS. THE JOBS AMERICAN WORKERS USED TO DO WERE GIVEN TO HIGHLY EDUCATED ECONOMIC REFUGEES FROM COUNTRIES LIKE BANGLADESH,INDIA. IRELAND,PAKISTAN,ISRAEL WHO CAME IN ON THE VISAS THAT THE GREEDY, CORRUPT, CROOKED HIGH TECH COMPANIES HAD ISSUED FOR THEM BY THE INFLUENCE I N CONGRESS THAT THEIR CAMPAIGN DONATIONS -- BOTH RECORDED AND UNRECORDED BOUGHT FOR THEM! I REMEMBER ONE OF MY BROTHER - IN -LAW HAVE TO TRAIN HIS REPLACEMENT --A GUY WITH TWO TECHNOLOGY PhD DEGREES FROM INDIA WHO WAS GETTING d**n NEAR MINIMUM WAGE AT A CERTAIN HIGH TECH COMPANY THAT RECENTLY LEFT THE USA FOR INDIA PROPER WHEN THE SHAMEFUL EXPLOITATION OF FOREIGN WORKERS CAME TO LIGHT... THE JOBS AMERICAN WORKERS USED TO DO ARE NO LONGER AROUND BECAUSE OF THE GREED IN THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY OF THE BUSINESSES THAT NEEDED LOANS SO THEY COULD EXPAND ( HIRING CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, ETC.) AND MORE PRODUCTION WORKERS, MORE PEOPLE TO TRANSPORT THE GOODS TO THE PLACES WHERE THEY WOULD BE SOLD BY MORE WORKERS,ETC. & ETC. BUT BIG SLIMEY COCKROACHES LIKE THAT BLOATED, GREEDY PSYCHO-SWINE BERNARD MADOFF STOLE ALL THE MONEY--AND HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE. THERE HAS BEEN A RASH OF STORIES IN THE NEWS MEDIA ABOUT ALL OF THESE FINANCIAL CRIMINALS WHO ARE BEING CAUGHT OR BEING FORCED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY BECAUSE BUSH AND CHANEY ARE FINALLY LEAVING OFFICE! NO MORE NO-BID CONTRACTS! NO MORE BAIL-OUTS FOR CRONIES WHO WILL NOW HAVE TO DO WITHOUT TAXPAYER MONEY SUBSIDIZING THEIR GAMBLING -- THE FACT IS THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING BACKING UP THE INVESTMENT AND FINANCIAL INDUSTRY FOR QUITE A WHILE EXCEPT ARROGANT POSTURING,LIES. PROMISES MADE TO BE BROKEN.. IT IS ALL A PONZI SCHEME, ROBBING THE LIFE BLOOD AND PRODUCTIVITY OF THE AMERICAN WORKERS! SO BEFORE YOU START BLAMING THESE POOR PEOPLE, YOU BETTER TAKE A VERY IN-DEPTH LOOK AT THE AMERICAN FINANCIAL INDUSTRY AND HOW AMERICAN CORPORATE-FASCIST GREED NEARLY HAS DESTROYED OUT COUNTRY --FINANCIALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY! I AM GOING TO PRAY FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA AND HOPE THAT HE CAN TURN OUR COUNTRY AROUND! AND YOU NEED TO PRAY FOR HIM TOO.

illegals are even taking our good jobs away. And also the socalled 'they do jobs we wont do' is bogus. On the 1st I actually worked with illegals at Rockwell International. They were even in the union... It took 5 years, but once discovered, the company immediately fired them and attemtped to reverse as much of the $$ paid to these 5 people as possible. The union initially was going to support them till other union members said heck no. If the union had protected them, the union might have gotten decertified here.

I guess the GREEDY employers of America think they are still paying us too much and they want ALL of US to live like this. Maybe they ran out of jobs to outsource --or maybe the REALITY of Global TERRORISM is stopping them from MORE shipping jobs out of the country. THEY JUST THINK IT IS CHEAPER TO DO BUSINESS OVERSEAS -- wait until the local officials hit them up for BRIBES which are subject to being raised on a whim PLUS having to hire members of the ruling junta's family in various high priced no-show jobs as "consultants" and "security." But here at home, they are laying off workers by the hundreds of thousands. Out of work people create social unrest! They say there are recession-proof jobs but NO job is truly recession proof! People out of work in one job category will have to retrain and subsequently flood the other "recession proof" job categories until we have PEON WAGES! Not only that, with all of the people being foreclosed upon and ending up homeless, WE WILL BE SLEEPING UNDER CONDITIONS EQUAL TO THE CONDITIONS SHOWN HERE IN THIS PHOTO OF THE POOR, EXPLOITED PEOPLE. THIS SHOULD BE AMERICA'S WAKE UP CALL! WHY DON'T THESE PEOPLE GO BACK TO MEXICO AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN MEXICO! WHY DON'T WE ENCOURAGE THE US GOVERNMENT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN MEXICO OR ARE THEY TOO DEPENDENT ON THE INCOME THAT THE ILLEGAL DRUG TRAFFIC BRINGS CERTAIN PEOPLE HERE IN THE US? THIS SHOULD ALSO BE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHY BIRTH CONTROL IS NEEDED --NOW!

I wish everyone would just stay where they come from, you want to visit, fine then go back where you came from. Like australia or Canada, you cannot just go there and say I want to live. It is not that easy. America is to greedy to ever crack down on all the Immagrants we have here, it's money in there (the gov'nt, rich people etc.)pockets. Also our country being in such financial crisis, they really need these illegals now. There are legal people here who would work for the same pay just to have some money in there pocket and food in there stomachs, but b/c they are not running across the border they get second sometimes third preference. This is crazy! My country I live in is crazy. The best thing is that we are a free country everything else is a bunch of bologna. I do not feel sorry for those living the way they do, that is the life they chose. They can go back to where they came from if they are not happy. And how come so many live here own store work in buisnesses and cannot even speak my language it's very annoying. At least if your gonna be here learn the d**n language!

If this economy keeps in sliding into the HELL that the news media swear that we are going to have and the rich people in charge keep stealing all of the money and we the people keep letting them get away with it, then we can ALL expect to be living just like THIS! Under the 14th Amendment, these people have the same basic rights as all Americans do. Get used to it. As more and more people lose their jobs --doesn't make a rat if your mortgage payments have been forgiven or not --there is a slight problem of escalating property taxes--and if you DO NOT HAVE A JOB, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY YOUR PROPERTY TAXES AND THE GOVERNMENT WILL STILL BE ABLE TO TAKE YOUR HOUSE AWAY FROM YOU! And take it from me, a former homeless person, the cops WILL keep you moving until you will be afraid of them and start hiding from them. TALK ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HAS NO RIGHTS AND NO PROTECTION FROM THE POLICE --HOMELESS PEOPLE HAVE NO RIGHTS WHATSOEVER! I AM DANCING ON THE EDGE OF THE RAZORBLADE TO KEEP FROM BEING HOMELESS AGAIN BUT IN THIS ECONOMY, WHO KNOWS! THIS IS HOW THE ENTIRE RULING CLASS ELITE IN THE USA WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL THE REST OF US! GET USED TO THE IDEA. I FEEL BAD ABOUT FIGHTING ONE OF THESE OTHER DISPLACED,SURPLUS PEOPL TO THE DEATH OVER ONE TORTILLA! AND IT JUST MIGHT COME TO THIS. SADLY.

These people would be shot if they were breaking into almost any other country. If you wish to support them, open up your house and spend your money on them. I am sure you have an extra bedroom they can use. They are crimminals who broke into our country and should be in jail. They take jobs that they are not qualified for such as licensed electricians and plumbers, from cheating businesses and provide us with shabby workmenship. How can an honest businessman hire legal workers and compete against illegal companies using cheap illegal laber? How many illegals has Bush taken into his ranch? Should we take in the rest of South America? Are you insane? Best regards, John ****

These people would be shot if they were breaking into almost any other country. If you wish to support them, open up your house and spend your money on them. I am sure you have an extra bedroom they can use. They are crimminals who broke into our country and should be in jail. They take jobs that they are not qualified for such as licensed electricians and plumbers, from cheating businesses and provide us with shabby workmenship. How can an honest businessman hire legal workers and compete against illegal companies using cheap illegal laber? How many illegals has Bush taken into his ranch? Should we take in the rest of South America? Are you insane? Best regards, John ****

These people would be shot if they were breaking into almost any other country. If you wish to support them, open up your house and spend your money on them. I am sure you have an extra bedroom they can use. They are crimminals who broke into our country and should be in jail. They take jobs that they are not qualified for such as licensed electricians and plumbers, from cheating businesses and provide us with shabby workmenship. How can an honest businessman hire legal workers and compete against illegal companies using cheap illegal laber? How many illegals has Bush taken into his ranch? Should we take in the rest of South America? Are you insane? Best regards, John ****

first, to the ignorant complaining about people who dont work or "women and girls" who have babies for a check. one, women and girls go on welfare because of deadbeat dads; sterilize both and no more unwanted children. two, some people can't work because of age and disability. that's why we pay taxes. don't like it? MOVE! illegal aliens are a dream to american businesses. if they want to work here, they must pay into the system that's so benevolent to them. i used to be a caseworker in tx, and i was astounded at what bush allowed as governor and as president. when the illegals go, we'll still have fruits, veggies and milk. an american will be providing labor and be paid by american standards. businessmen dont like paying a day's pay for a day's work. they'd rather underpay an illegal and do a political spin like the editorial we just read.

If those workers are here illegally, I have no sympathy. The National Academy of Sciences estimated that each immigrant will result in a $100000 net annual cost to taxpayers. Furthermore, we already have laws in place that were meant to punish companies and employers who hire illegal aliens (aka undocumented workers) and these laws should be enforced. Corporate America benefits from this cheap, slave labor, and American workers suffer for their greed.

The mayor posed an order to make apartments ask for verification of residency LULAC filed suit stating that it was discrimination and a violation of illegals rights - WHAT!!! Illegals have no rights in this country - I am sick and tired of paying property taxes to pay for illegals medical care, housing, their childrens education, etc etc - Enough is enough!!! I am tired of expecting to speak Spanish I am tired of Teachers in this state expected to speak Spanish because ILLEGALS think it is ok not to speak English Time to build that fence and make it Jurassic Park STRONG!

The mayor posed an order to make apartments ask for verification of residency LULAC filed suit stating that it was discrimination and a violation of illegals rights - WHAT!!! Illegals have no rights in this country - I am sick and tired of paying property taxes to pay for illegals medical care, housing, their childrens education, etc etc - Enough is enough!!! I am tired of expecting to speak Spanish I am tired of Teachers in this state expected to speak Spanish because ILLEGALS think it is ok not to speak English Time to build that fence and make it Jurassic Park STRONG!

The mayor posed an order to make apartments ask for verification of residency LULAC filed suit stating that it was discrimination and a violation of illegals rights - WHAT!!! Illegals have no rights in this country - I am sick and tired of paying property taxes to pay for illegals medical care, housing, their childrens education, etc etc - Enough is enough!!! I am tired of expecting to speak Spanish I am tired of Teachers in this state expected to speak Spanish because ILLEGALS think it is ok not to speak English Time to build that fence and make it Jurassic Park STRONG!

The mayor posed an order to make apartments ask for verification of residency LULAC filed suit stating that it was discrimination and a violation of illegals rights - WHAT!!! Illegals have no rights in this country - I am sick and tired of paying property taxes to pay for illegals medical care, housing, their childrens education, etc etc - Enough is enough!!! I am tired of expecting to speak Spanish I am tired of Teachers in this state expected to speak Spanish because ILLEGALS think it is ok not to speak English Time to build that fence and make it Jurassic Park STRONG!

these may be your idea of benefits but take all your goodness and go home and make it better. you complain and have the nerve to be illegal that's just stupid. get legal pay taxes like we do and then wine.

I have a suggestion. Illegal citizens should return to their home country. The United States is blessed with many diversities of LEGAL citizens who have come to our country. Years ago my relatives came here LEGALLY. If your unhappy with the way your treated go home. If your illegally here your not welcome and should be arrested and deported.

1..Builders would be at a total standstill statewide. 2..Landlords statewide would begin to go into foreclosure for lack of occupancy. 3..Fruits and vegetables will be scarce at best. 4..Got milk? 5..Our beautiful manicured landscape first would become overgrown and then die from lack of water from UN-repaired sprinklers. 6..Road construction for the cities and the state would be at a near standstill. These are all a lie. They'd pay more for the legal workers because they'd still be making profit. 7..Wealthy housewives would now have to clean their own homes and cook their families' meals. Cry me a river. Miss prissy can do something herself for once in her life. 8..We'll be driving around in filthy cars. Clean your own d**n car you lazy moron. 9..Car dealers would only have Anglos to rip-off. No need for comment on this one. 10..Many restaurants would have to close. This is a lie. They'd pay more for the legal workers because they'd still be making profit. 11..State and Federal Tax agencies would lose all that tax revenue that these agencies are able to collect & keep due to the phony social security numbers that illegal immigrants are forced to use so they may work and pay taxes. We're talking millions! Yeah, MY hard earned tax dollars. Grow up. 12..Cities will lose census-based funding for economic redevelopment. What illegal immigrant is going to fill out the census survey anyway? 13..School districts will lose funding. With less of our tax dollars going to illegals on welfare, or jail, or anything else we spend that on, we'll have more for the schools. Our children who belong here will get a much better eduaction. 14..Teachers will be laid off permanently Bullsh** 15..Southwest Supermarkets and some 7-11 / Circle K's will lose business forcing some to close down. Have you seen the reports on here about Circle K's employees? They need to shut down anyway.

INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants 2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants CRIME STATISTICS 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. 86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens. 75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens. 24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally 40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally 48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally 29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually 53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens. 50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border. 71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or transport coyotes". 47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens. 63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens 66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens. BIRTH STATISTICS 380,000 plus anchor babies were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens. 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers. 66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers To all of you who say with out the illegals certain jobs and work won't be done..ARE YOU NUTS?!?! Who do you think did those jobs before the illegals??

Steve - Bradenton, Florida - Quote: "That is the BEAUTY of the United States Of America. Anytime you do not like it here, you are FREE to leave! I don't see any chains on those people!" Wrong, Steve!! Maybe you didn't read the firsts post, but it concerns illegal immigrants being treated as slaves and denied their human rights, and forced to work to repay the total cost of the smugglers' fee ($500 to $1,500 per person). They're probably threatened with the police if they try to leave. ------------------------- Americanpaul - Phoenix, Arizona - Quote: "AMERICANS ARE NOT AFRAID TO WORK AND WE NEED THE JOBS" Wrong, Americanpaul, Yes, we need the jobs, but face it, americans are indeed AFRAID and to lazy to work. Specially working tough and dirty jobs. In the past, I've worked along side whites, mexicans, blacks, etc., and the mexicans are the only ones not afraid to do hard work. On the other hand, whites and blacks, are to lazy to do labor work. ------------------------- District Manager - Capitol, Alabama - Quote: "Why don't they fix there own Country rather than expect handouts and free support from us?" Distric Manager, you probably mean "their" instead of "there"... :) :) Back to your comment. The only people I ever encounter asking for handouts at the parking lots and freeway on-ramps (carrying signs that say something like "war vet, will work for food") are whites and blacks, but mostly white people. My sister who works for Social Service Dept. tells me that about 70% percent of welfare clients are white people who have been on the system (walfare rolls) for years and years. She says that it has been about 9 years since Social Services does not give aid (cash or medical) to illegal aliens

Why don't they fix there own Country rather than expect handouts and free support from us? If Illegals want a better life, do what millions of others do- make it happen! Nobody promised life would be easy, so fix your own d**n Country, or come here legally and add something to our Country rather than be a drain on it.

ANYONE THAT BELIEVES THAT WE WILL JUST SHUT DOWN IS AN IDIOT AND OBVIOUSLY A LIBERAL. My grass will get cut just fine and I have plenty of freinds that will jump for joy that all those construction jobs will open up. Whoever makes these stupid comments must be a communist. Let's just give away all our services free. Why does Mexico not get fined? They have plenty of money and their tourism industry is prospering. Can anyone tell me what would happen if the $20 billion dollars plus that these people send to Mexico stayed in our economy? All illegals are theives by stealing id's to work All illegals are liars by lying to their employers and others. All illegals are a unwanted weight on our society that we can not afford. All illegals should be shipped back with their anchor babies. Illegals do not have nor should they have any civil rights as they are Not citizens and should be treated as what they are Criminals. I am a the proud american child of legal immigrants that kept their money here learned the language and paid their taxes. Can you say the same?

First off, let me say that inhumane treatment of a fellow human being is wrong, REGARDLESS of the circumstances. Whether they be illegal immigrants, or inmates, or POWs. Inhumane treatment is wrong, period. Now, the only way to solve the illegal immigration problem in the US is for law enforcement to go after the companies that employ the illegals. For example, yesterday the Maricopa County Sherriff's Dept raided two local water parks in Mesa and Phoenix. A total of 8 illegals were found working at these locations. The only problem is, they are so prevalent here that it would take a task force larger than all the police forces in the Valley combined to raid all the businesses who hire illegals. No city is going to foot the bill for the increase police presence, and we all know the federal government is not willing to help either. I wonder what the housing and agriculture markets would be like if employers were raided on a continuous basis? Sure, prices would go up. But at least you'd have US citizens and documented migrant workers doing the work (and paying taxes).

Tim, The entire reason for and topic of this thread is the inhumane treatment of illegals by the rich, etc. etc. etc.. That is the BEAUTY of the United States Of America. Anytime you do not like it here, you are FREE to leave! I don't see any chains on those people! Second, whether or not I have broken any laws is irrelevant to the fact that these people are criminals. I have paid my dues for my mistakes within our system of laws and the court system. I have been accountable for my mistakes. The illegals are criminals on the run. Fugitives from justice. They have no rights. I say we issue hunting permits and take care of this problem once and for all. Two parallel fences the entire length of the border about 100 yards apart. The area between is a kill zone that is well posted with warning signs to STAY OUT OR DIE. It works between N. Korea and S. Korea! It is called the DMZ and I have been there! Absolutely ZERO illegal immigration! That is the answer. Think about the impact on fuel and healthcare and auto insurance alone if we got rid of all of the 13 million+ illegals here! Supply and demand on gas causing high prices? Lets cut the demand by 13 million users. Healthcare? We are paying for all of them. Car Insurance? They don't even know what it is! We are paying for them. Get a grip on reality here. >>> Submitted: 4/25/2008 1:21:16 PM Modified: 4/25/2008 7:42:51 PM Tim Valparaiso, Indiana U.S.A. Another vantage point Steve, your points are entirely valid. However, on the same token as the 'they are here illegally and that's that argument' let me ask you this: did you observe the speed limit on the way to work this morning? Have you ever smoked a joint, drank a beer when you were a teenager, or otherwise violated the law? My point is not to belittle anyone, but this whole 'the law is the law and they are criminals' argument is a bit disingenuous. Can we agree, just maybe, to look at it this way: YES these folks are breaking the law and YES that makes them criminals. But the REAL criminals are the coyotes, the farm labor contractors, and the large commercial agrigultural operations that employ the majority of illegal immigrants. If we enforce the legal violations from this philosophical standpoint, we can theoretically use a 'supply and demand' tactic to curtail illegal immigration. If enforcement is stepped up against the people that benefit the most from illegal immigration, they will theoretically be forced to stop using illegal workers. This, in turn, sends waves of Mexicans back to Mexico because the economic prospects there are better than here. Word spreads that the job market is dry up here, and the more industrious Mexicans can focus on repairing their own economy. Comments? Questions? Concerns? >>>

Today, I am spending roughly $75.00 per week for standard transportation, to and from work, the grocery store, etc (roughly 110 miles per week). In 1994, I spent roughly $30.00 to drive from West Michigan to Southeast Tennessee and back (roughly a 1200 mile trip). To me, the real scam artists are the individuals who control the securities market. These individuals are maximizing profits at the expense of the well-being of the gneral American public. Until we gather the balls to take on the mega-commercial agriculturalists, the oil companies, and those who control the prices of such ccommodities, the notion of modifying immigration laws is moot. If you don't know what "moot" means, or if you had to look it up online, don't bother responding to this rebuttal. Otherwise, I will graciously consider any infomation that contradicts my assertions, and illegal imigration is the LEAST of our concerns.

Today, I am spending roughly $75.00 per week for standard transportation, to and from work, the grocery store, etc (roughly 110 miles per week). In 1994, I spent roughly $30.00 to drive from West Michigan to Southeast Tennessee and back (roughly a 1200 mile trip). To me, the real scam artists are the individuals who control the securities market. These individuals are maximizing profits at the expense of the well-being of the gneral American public. Until we gather the balls to take on the mega-commercial agriculturalists, the oil companies, and those who control the prices of such ccommodities, the notion of modifying immigration laws is moot. If you don't know what "moot" means, or if you had to look it up online, don't bother responding to this rebuttal. Otherwise, I will graciously consider any infomation that contradicts my assertions, and illegal imigration is the LEAST of our concerns.

Today, I am spending roughly $75.00 per week for standard transportation, to and from work, the grocery store, etc (roughly 110 miles per week). In 1994, I spent roughly $30.00 to drive from West Michigan to Southeast Tennessee and back (roughly a 1200 mile trip). To me, the real scam artists are the individuals who control the securities market. These individuals are maximizing profits at the expense of the well-being of the gneral American public. Until we gather the balls to take on the mega-commercial agriculturalists, the oil companies, and those who control the prices of such ccommodities, the notion of modifying immigration laws is moot. If you don't know what "moot" means, or if you had to look it up online, don't bother responding to this rebuttal. Otherwise, I will graciously consider any infomation that contradicts my assertions, and illegal imigration is the LEAST of our concerns.

Today, I am spending roughly $75.00 per week for standard transportation, to and from work, the grocery store, etc (roughly 110 miles per week). In 1994, I spent roughly $30.00 to drive from West Michigan to Southeast Tennessee and back (roughly a 1200 mile trip). To me, the real scam artists are the individuals who control the securities market. These individuals are maximizing profits at the expense of the well-being of the gneral American public. Until we gather the balls to take on the mega-commercial agriculturalists, the oil companies, and those who control the prices of such ccommodities, the notion of modifying immigration laws is moot. If you don't know what "moot" means, or if you had to look it up online, don't bother responding to this rebuttal. Otherwise, I will graciously consider any infomation that contradicts my assertions, and illegal imigration is the LEAST of our concerns.

As for my opinion the immigrants are going to come here anyway's so why couldn't people like me that own land and need the help just pick up how ever many we want and give the a great home with people that really care for their help. This way I could have a cook, farm hand, house keeper and even someone to help me with my handicapped mother......WOW now that a food for thought.... I could give some a great home with some one that can give them laughter, knowledge and feel like they belong to a family instead of Evil employers that mistreat them.....As our Father all mighty said, we ALL brothers and sisters for he is our Father and when we pass there is no more mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or even cousins..... We are Gods Children so why not treat eachother on earth as it will be in Heaven? If I could find these brothers and sisters of mine then I would take as many as I could and give them a home in my home........

As for my opinion the immigrants are going to come here anyway's so why couldn't people like me that own land and need the help just pick up how ever many we want and give the a great home with people that really care for their help. This way I could have a cook, farm hand, house keeper and even someone to help me with my handicapped mother......WOW now that a food for thought.... I could give some a great home with some one that can give them laughter, knowledge and feel like they belong to a family instead of Evil employers that mistreat them.....As our Father all mighty said, we ALL brothers and sisters for he is our Father and when we pass there is no more mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or even cousins..... We are Gods Children so why not treat eachother on earth as it will be in Heaven? If I could find these brothers and sisters of mine then I would take as many as I could and give them a home in my home........

As for my opinion the immigrants are going to come here anyway's so why couldn't people like me that own land and need the help just pick up how ever many we want and give the a great home with people that really care for their help. This way I could have a cook, farm hand, house keeper and even someone to help me with my handicapped mother......WOW now that a food for thought.... I could give some a great home with some one that can give them laughter, knowledge and feel like they belong to a family instead of Evil employers that mistreat them.....As our Father all mighty said, we ALL brothers and sisters for he is our Father and when we pass there is no more mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or even cousins..... We are Gods Children so why not treat eachother on earth as it will be in Heaven? If I could find these brothers and sisters of mine then I would take as many as I could and give them a home in my home........

As for my opinion the immigrants are going to come here anyway's so why couldn't people like me that own land and need the help just pick up how ever many we want and give the a great home with people that really care for their help. This way I could have a cook, farm hand, house keeper and even someone to help me with my handicapped mother......WOW now that a food for thought.... I could give some a great home with some one that can give them laughter, knowledge and feel like they belong to a family instead of Evil employers that mistreat them.....As our Father all mighty said, we ALL brothers and sisters for he is our Father and when we pass there is no more mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or even cousins..... We are Gods Children so why not treat eachother on earth as it will be in Heaven? If I could find these brothers and sisters of mine then I would take as many as I could and give them a home in my home........

Who really cares....the illegals shouldn't be here in the first place so if you are complaining about treatment you're probably an illegal yourself so shut up and go back to mexico.

Who really cares....the illegals shouldn't be here in the first place so if you are complaining about treatment you're probably an illegal yourself so shut up and go back to mexico.

Who really cares....the illegals shouldn't be here in the first place so if you are complaining about treatment you're probably an illegal yourself so shut up and go back to mexico.

Every country thinks america owes them something we owe them nothing, they can blame there own government for how poor there country is. We had nothing to do it but we still get the blame for it. I don't feel sorry for these illegal Immigrant people who defend for there rights are just has guilty, we should not have to put up with this, this is our country not theres. Then they complain about having unfair treatment well they came in to this country illegal what do that accept.

I have lived in Texas all of my life! I LOVE MARIACHI MUSIC! HOW IN THE HELL IT CAN BE OFFENSIVE TO ANYBODY I WILL NEVER KNOW! Now some of that tub thumping, cojunto music with the old drunk guys singing in the garage with the accordion, bajo sexto and some idiot on the bass and another drunken bum on the drums --- THAT CAN BE VERY OFFENSIVE TO ME! It is loud, unmusicial and horrible --WHEN PLAYED BY NO-TALENT, DRUNKS but that is true of ALL music. There are some EXCELLENT CONJUNTO GROUPS but many are NOT. MARIACHI MUSIC IS NOT NOW AND NOT EVER WILL BE OFFENSIVE TO ME! I would put the website on a certain video-playing site that would show you the most beautiful romantic and amazing music in the world so I think that this obviously non -Hispanic person has their genres of Mexican music confused with some of the music country folks" listen to. The difference is somewhat akin to light classical music verus a Jerry Springer people concert, let's say. Mariachis HAVE to know how to play every instrument in a typical mariachi ensemble at a virtuoso level without reading music in ANY key, in ANY situation and has to sing at an opera star vocal quality. He or she plays much better than a classically trained musician in the European tradition ever could. He or she also has to be an accomplished Folklorico dancer! That is fact, not a conjecture because I TRAINED TO PLAY MARIACHI MUSIC FOR YEARS but there is not much of a mariachi market in my part of Texas. Sad to say... AND WHAT IN THE HELL IS UP WITH THIS ANOTHER NO-BID CONTRACT AWARDED TO A COMPANY THAT HAPPENS TO HAVE HAD CLOSE TIES WITH CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THIS PRESENT EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IN THE PAST??? SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE AT WAR IN IRAQ SO THAT NO-BID CONTRACTORS COULD GET OBSCENELY RICH AND ANOTHER BENEFIT IS TO DRIVE THE PRICE OF OIL TO $10 A GALLON BY CHRISTMAS NO MATTER WHO IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE! WE DO NOT NEED A WALL BETWEEN TEXAS AND MEXICO! IF IT WASN'T FOR ALL THE DAMNED DRUG DEALERS --THE NARCOTRAFFICANTES -- RAISING HELL ON THE BORDER BRINGING DRUGS THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUY AND SOMEBODY WITH INFLUENCE IS FINANCING AND MAKING MONEY FROM ---TEXAS AND MEXICO USED TO HAVE A LOT BETTER RELATIONS THAN CALIFORNIA AND MEXICO! You see, in Texas, many of us never stopped being Mexican in our hearts but we adopted the better government ( a LOT less corruption than in Mexico) of the USA and Texas has always worked well before until the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STARTED MEDDLING IN THINGS, around 911 and when the DOPE started moving seriously aound the border. WE DO NOT NEED A DAMNED BERLIN-STYLE WALL BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES. If the IRAQ WAR WAS A PRETEXT BASED ON WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION THEN WHAT PRETEXT IS THIS NEW WALL, A SYMBOL OF HOSTILITY AND IMPRISONMENT BASED ON? And if there really is a plan afoot to unite Canada, the USA and Mexico into the Amero then what does this WALL OF OPPRESSION between our countries, what does this mean for us???? There is something terribly wrong going on here when border patrol agents are falsely imprisoned by the federal government for doing their job to keep the DRUG DEALERS out but drugs are everywhere here... Also, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH MEXICO THAT THEY CAN'T DO SOMETHING TO CONTROL THEIR OVERFLOWING POPULATION AND THEY HAVE TO SEND OUT THE MALCONTENTS AND CRIMINALS OVER HERE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO GENUINELY WANT AND NEED THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK AND DO BETTER? In Mexico, the social elites of the ruling class own and run almost everything. You can not get a good job unless you have a relative or a friend of a friend to speak on your behalf! The remainder who get the corrections and police officer jobs have to take bribes to make a living wage and nothing gets done unless you have monehy for the bribes. If you don't have a job, you don't have any money... MEXICO NEED TO STOP DEPENDING ON THE USA TO SIPHON OFF THEIR SURPLUS POPULATION AND DO SOMETHING TO FIND WORK AND INDUSTRY FOR THEIR OWN PEOPLE! NOT DUMP THEM HERE ON US. ALL OF THE MEXICANS I TALKED TO WERE HOMESICK AND DID NOT WANT TO BE IN THE US BUT THEY HAD BEEN STARVED OUT OF THE MEXICO! ONE MEXICAN GUY I TALKED TO RECENTLY WAS TELLING ME THAT THEIR PLANT HAD BEEN CLOSED DOWN AND THE WORK HAD BEEN SHIPPED TO CHINA AND HE HAD GOTTEN SCARED AND CAME TO THE US IMMEDIATELY LEAVING HIS FMAILY BEHIND.HE WAS NOT HAPPY WITH CHINA. HE HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR WORK FOR A MONTH AND WAS GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE TEXAS AND TRY TO GO TO CANADA OR FIND A RANCH IN MONTANA SOMEWHERE. AND NOW THEY HAVE THIS ETHANOL BIOFUEL SCAM TO TAKE AWAY ALL OF THE PEOPLE'S CORN, THE MAINSTAY OF THE INDIAN AND MEXICAN DIET, TO PIT THE HAVES AND HAVE NOTS AGAINST EACH OTHER! SO BY CREATING THE ARTIFICIAL PETROLEUM SHORTAGE WITH THE EXTORTED PRICES, AND LEADING PEOPEL TO THINK THAT BIOFUEL IS THE ANSWER, MORE HELL IS BEING CREATED FOR ALL PEOPLE! LESS CORN FOR ANIMAL FEED, LESS CORN FOR TORTILLAS AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE USA GOVERNMENT? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT? APPARENTLY SOMETHING IS!

Steve, your points are entirely valid. However, on the same token as the "they are here illegally and that's that argument" let me ask you this: did you observe the speed limit on the way to work this morning? Have you ever smoked a joint, drank a beer when you were a teenager, or otherwise violated the law? My point is not to belittle anyone, but this whole "the law is the law and they are criminals" argument is a bit disingenuous. Can we agree, just maybe, to look at it this way: YES these folks are breaking the law and YES that makes them criminals. But the REAL criminals are the coyotes, the farm labor contractors, and the large commercial agrigultural operations that employ the majority of illegal immigrants. If we enforce the legal violations from this philosophical standpoint, we can theoretically use a "supply and demand" tactic to curtail illegal immigration. If enforcement is stepped up against the people that benefit the most from illegal immigration, they will theoretically be forced to stop using illegal workers. This, in turn, sends waves of Mexicans back to Mexico because the economic prospects there are better than here. Word spreads that the job market is dry up here, and the more industrious Mexicans can focus on repairing their own economy. Comments? Questions? Concerns?

The fact of the matter is that these people are here illegally. They laugh at our laws. We let them. Since they knowingly come here in violation of our laws, by definition, they are criminals. Anyone who does not like this is free to change the law. Until then, lets put our emotions aside, and enforce the laws that are on the books. We are not the welfare agency for the world. We have our own problems. lets deal with our own problems. Lets let Mexico deal with their problems. Nobody forced these criminals to come here. If they do not like the way they are living or being treated, they have the right to go back to Mexico. It is a CHOICE.

Lori, You make a good point. If we are going to allow this rampant illeegal immigration to continue, we must at least, ensure that the immigrants are contribting to out economy, and not draining our resources to the point where the profitability of illegal immigration is outweighed by the abuses of our social services. However, most of these laws are already on the books at the federal level. So the problem isn't so much a lack of laws, but a lack of enforcement. If the "coyote" laws, the farm labor contractor laws, and the MSAWPA were enforced effectively by the federal government, the states wouldn't be forced to do it themselves. As regards fighting to change things in Mexico, that is a great idea in theory but, unfortunately, that's an ultimte goal that can only be acheived after multiple, smaller goals are met. One major problem lies with the immigration issue. The best laborers, along with the best professionals, are leaving Mexico for better jobs in the U.S. If the solid laborers would stick around, Mexico could create an industry of commercialized agriculture like we have here, as opposed to small, unprofitable family operations. This could boost their economy, and act as an incentive to stave off the "brain drain." Currently, Mexico is economically dependent on the U.S. Tweaks in enforcement, in how we determine who can and can't come in legally, and in improving the professional education of Mexican people could make a huge change. If Mexico could become its own productive, economic powerhouse, we could have a great trade relation with them that would benefit both countries.

Our Legislature passed a Bill making it a felony to render any type of aide what so ever to anyone who is here illegally. This includes employment, welfare, any kind of church aide, etc. I can tell you that it has made a big difference. Last year I took a friend into DHS to apply for heat assistance. The office I took her to was jam packed, maybe a hand full of people there spoke English. This year I took her into the same office and, it was practically empty and, everyone spoke English! It makes me wonder just how big of a drain these people have been on our economy? If things are so bad in Mexico, why don't they fight to change it?

This is a long post and obviously I couldn't read them all so if this thought has been addressed and i missed it I apologize, but has anyone said what Joe & Jane Doaks can do about the situation? I drive by a corner every day where Mexicans congregate hoping, begging with their eyes, praying that someone, anyone, will offer them something, anything, to help them survive. They think because I drive a pickup I may be looking for laborers and it breaks my heart to shake my head at them. I would gladly hire them if I had something for them to do. I don't know squat about international law, coyotes, government policy, or the INS, what can I do where I'm at for these poor folk?

This is a long post and obviously I couldn't read them all so if this thought has been addressed and i missed it I apologize, but has anyone said what Joe & Jane Doaks can do about the situation? I drive by a corner every day where Mexicans congregate hoping, begging with their eyes, praying that someone, anyone, will offer them something, anything, to help them survive. They think because I drive a pickup I may be looking for laborers and it breaks my heart to shake my head at them. I would gladly hire them if I had something for them to do. I don't know squat about international law, coyotes, government policy, or the INS, what can I do where I'm at for these poor folk?

This is a long post and obviously I couldn't read them all so if this thought has been addressed and i missed it I apologize, but has anyone said what Joe & Jane Doaks can do about the situation? I drive by a corner every day where Mexicans congregate hoping, begging with their eyes, praying that someone, anyone, will offer them something, anything, to help them survive. They think because I drive a pickup I may be looking for laborers and it breaks my heart to shake my head at them. I would gladly hire them if I had something for them to do. I don't know squat about international law, coyotes, government policy, or the INS, what can I do where I'm at for these poor folk?

This is a long post and obviously I couldn't read them all so if this thought has been addressed and i missed it I apologize, but has anyone said what Joe & Jane Doaks can do about the situation? I drive by a corner every day where Mexicans congregate hoping, begging with their eyes, praying that someone, anyone, will offer them something, anything, to help them survive. They think because I drive a pickup I may be looking for laborers and it breaks my heart to shake my head at them. I would gladly hire them if I had something for them to do. I don't know squat about international law, coyotes, government policy, or the INS, what can I do where I'm at for these poor folk?

Firt of all, I would like to say I am not for illegal immigration, for the reason the pictures above shows. It puts these poor people at the mercy of criminals. It is morally wrong not to pay a living wage, and this is the direct result. Our government needs to get tough ( very tough ) on employers - they need to be enforcing their own current laws. But there has to be a balance, the country can not support everyone who wants to come here, but we could increase visas for migrant workers. I live up here in Illinois, and know several legal migrant workers that come up here and work on the farms. They are not given luxury hotels to live in but an exceptable housing. They arent paid a huge amount of money, but enough to live on and still send some home to their families. However, it is very arrogant to say we Americans need someone to do our laundry- that talk never gets anywhere - epecially since I have eight kids and do my own laundry, cook and clean for those blessings everyday. This is alo a national security issue, we must monitor those coming in the country. I can understand and sympathize with the frustration and wanting a better life, however, why not all stand together and work on the government in Mexico. Demand higher wages, demand their government fight corruption, demand that their government does not let these corporations come in and take advantage- that is how America became great - by the people for the people, and that is how Mexico can become just as prosperous. honestly, there is enough, if everyone got together- they could scare the pants off their government leaders. You see, my experience, ( and I may be stereotyping, but from what I have seen ) most do not want to asimilate into this culture ( I know not all ). My sister - in - law is an illegal immigrant, and her family is here illegally as well. There is never an attempt to even try to assimilate, but to create another Mexico. So that is why I wonder, how come all these people who come and demand our laws change, are not in their own country demanding for better living conditions? - as our forefathers did over 200 years ago. So, in short, our American corporations and wealthy should be ashamed by their behavior and their insistence of slave labor. But, in some sense, if the immigrants would show the same amount of courage they showed to cross those borders against their government, we could have two very prosperous countries living side by side. I think there is alot of blame to go around, and everyone must take their part. And does anyone know if these horror stories of horrible living conditions and low wages go around Mexico before they make that sometime deadly trip?

The Illegal Aliens, that is. They have NO civil rights, because they are here ILLEGALLY. Period. If they don't like the treatment they're getting, they should go on back to Mexico. The business that hired them in the first place, should lose their licenses to do business, and pay a whopping fine to boot! They're the reason that over 22 Million Illegal Aliens are here. They can get cheaper workers and make bigger profits. Take back our nation, before it becomes North Mexico, and becomes a third-world country.

You will notice that I'm blaming the Mexican government, not the immigrants. The immigrant problem starts in Mexico with the Mexican government. The corrupt government does absolutely nothing for their citizens unless they have money. It has been reported that the Mexican police abuse, assault and rob illegal Central Americans who are traveling in southern Mexico. Therefore, the Mexican government is doing the same thing to their undesirable citizens and non-citizens as Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot's regime in Cambodia and others. Purge the undesirables so that they may have a 'clean' society. The only difference is that the Mexicans aren't being executed but they are being exported as a commodity. By turning a blind eye to the problem, the Mexican government is endorsing this policy. If the Mexican government would clean up their act and establish an economy that would surpass the American economy, how many Americans would flock to Mexico for a better life? How many Canadians cross the boarder illegally to live a better life here? Very few. How many Americans cross the Canadian boarder to live a better life in Canada? Very few. How many Americans and Canadians cross the boarder to Mexico for a better life? Absolutely none. The Mexicans immigrants hire and pay the coyotes to take them across the border. No coyote has 'saved' himself by identifying his employer in the US. The Mexican government will arrest you if you are caught bringing so much as one bullet or a pocket knife across the border into their country. They are treated as a weapon. But the Mexican government will do absolutely nothing to stem the flow of drugs and other criminal activity traveling northward. Sure, an arrest here and there to pacify some complaintants on big new items. Does the Mexican government patrol the desert areas of their border? Not likely. Folks, I am old and not much time left. There's going to be another civil war in this country, not in my lifetime or maybe not in my children's lifetime, but it's going to happen. The Mexican government is going to encourage the Mexicans here to take the Southwest US back to Mexico to improve their economy. All wars are fought on one of three ideologies - economy, government policies or religion. Don't think it can happen? Iraq invaded Kuwait because they felt that Kuwait was once part of Iraq as far back as the 17th century.

let me get this straight. This report is complaining about how Mexicans live once in the united States? Are they forced to come to the US??? They come here illegally, and now Ed, the Mexicans, and others expect us to roll out the red carpet. What a laugh! So they live in tents without heat. SO WHAT! They are where they want to be. in the US, the land of opportunity. I agree with Dan from San Fran. I can't believe anyone in this country is feeling sorry for these Mexicans. I am in NO WAY racist! I think Mexicans have some of the most beautiful women in the world, but that's not the point! I'm struggling to buy my home, and a group of at least 7 Mexicans just moved into the home across from me. They drive a nicer vehicle and bring in bags and bags of groceries daily. None of them speak English except for the children. The home had at least 5 or 6 possible buyers, yet the Mexican crew got the home. When I spoke with the previous owner, he told me that the Mexicans had some sort of grant from the government, same with the food and vehicle. I about s**t my pants. How fair is that, I can barley afford to feed my family, and have a job that doesn't provide insurance,and the government says I'm just over the limit to receive help Yet these Mexicans receive all these benefits with the tax dollars I provide. and our country is in debt! Does ANYONE realize this? How about worrying about the people that live in tents without heat that are citizens here? Americans. We have men a women dying everyday in war for this country. not for Mexicans. They need to go back, then they don't have to worry about being dropped off in the middle of nowhere, no heat , etc. As far as I'm concerned they can boo h*o all they want. They want to be here. They know what to expect before they even come here. Hell, I even know that.

Hello people. I'm mexican and do live in Mexico. I have some points to say: - Mexicans crossing the border are breaking international laws. There is no discussion, but too truth is that laws (worldwide) are usually very rigid. They need to change constantly accord to our more quickly fluctuating world. - A fact is that your country will be invaded year after ayear, most of the invaders are poor and uneducated. They are breaking laws that they don't know. It's a natural economical phenomenon. - They cross the border 'cause they can find work there. Now you americans, please decide about your laws and initiatives: "Want we the majority of us, american citizens, the labor of these cheap workers? should we assume the consequences of receiveing this non well-educated people?" - Another fact is that some anglosaxon people really don't like to see that ugly prietos, greasers cometacos. Be honest, you hate them cause most of them are phisically nasty, cowards and extremely humble, and have horrible customs (like the music) Not like the northamerican idealism of a man. But well, if you have already accepted the old black slaves as citizens in your country (you did not put them back to Africa), should you accept these latins? (Many white guys already like the vogues of the common black people as I've seen) What think the majority about it? So be realistic, and don't forget that facts. I have many complaints about my compatriots, they're weak, they're dirty, they're inefficient, they're dishonest, they're uneducated and with no intentions of change it. They're groaning against our corrupt goverment, but it's only a mirror of us. We are the descendants of a culture based in the plundering. It's very hard to be productive here, but not impossible. Anyway don't worry, I won't cross your border illegally, maybe legally for shopping in Phoenix. What a mad thing is life...

I was born in the US and my family has been here for generations. I have a college education and a job with the federal government. I work very hard and go through allot because the male employees are favored yet I ignore it and work my butt off for about $320 a week to live on. I read an article that was whining because the typical wage for illegals is $550 a week. I am a US citizen am work for the Department of Veterans affairs. I have native american ancestry and a member of my family has served the United states military in every war and conflict in the history of this country. My family is living on rice and noodles,we have no heat and it has already snowed. I am put in unsafe conditions because some of the people I encounter on the job are dangerous with felony convictions and addictions. I've been threatened and stalked be by rehab people. I think I deserve more than an illegal. When citizens have food at every meal and warm homes then we should think about illegals. If I don't like my condition I can't go back to were I came from because I am already there. If they don't like it here they should go somewhere else because it seems they have it better than some legal citizens. I have done migrant work, I have shovelled poop. US citizens will do dirty work. We don't need illegals.

has anyone thought about whats going ta happen once we give these law breakers the FREE PASS to our country... They will then have rights they dont have now... hints law suites after law suites about how they are taken advantage of and theirs rights have been stepped on. And for all you guys who are getting the work for nothing will now have to pay... am i the only one who see's this? by my spelling here you can see im not educated and most of the people hiring these guys are..FIGHT THE BILL--- SEND THEM HOME--- NOW--- I think we should enforce the laws we have and forget about the new ones.. Didnt we pay our law makers a long time ago to ge this thing straight... If i hear one more time about on how we all got hear in the first place i am gonna go crazy... thats was years and years ago when it was leagle to come to the great USA welll it's not now and thats that...

I ran across this report and was impress how much activity it is still receiving after almost 8 years. I myself am a fair skinned American, My father was a blond haired blue eyed man. My mom on the other hand is half Native American, you could not tell by looking at me that I am her daughter. To this I am always put back by the way people judge by a persons looks. Yes I was the little blond girl growing up, and I stuck out. My little brown cousins were, well brown, I always had the pale skin and I didn't look like I belonged with them. Now with that said.. WAKE UP Don't slam a person for trying to have a better life, to provide a good future for their children. Would you not do the same for yours? I was raised to work, and work hard. I learned at a very young age where my food came from and what it took to get it. I live in an area in the USA that has a high number of illegal, but I can guarantee that there are not others wanting those jobs. Most of the work that these people do is paid by the piece or amount that they pick, not by the hour. These people gather in groups in the early hours to pay for a ride to work usually $50 plus a week, crowded into a small vehicle. I lived in the neighbor hoods with these people it is funny how we can complain about them and how crappy they are but when it comes down to it I believe that These People Are some of the best darn Americans there are. The children are brought up with respect, they are taught to mind. My neighbors learned the language, yes slowly, but they learned it, I also learned much of theirs. I am so sick of these titles that are assigned to us.. I do not like that thy assume that you are Caucasian or African American or Hispanic American etc Why can we not be American? I ALWAYS check other because I am AMERICAN. I will agree that all illegal immigrants are not good but neither are the all the people that are already here. I do think that people should become legal, alot do, we just assume that because they are speaking another lanuage they are illegal.

For all of the people that can understand simple facts as Tim from Grand Haven seem to think are not being said.....I have a disabled daughter that cannot get the services or benifits that I,her tax paying USA born citizen father,have paid for with my sweat and blood working for the same nominal wages the corporate america pays all the people that might not highly educated or just plain lucky....We go to the local medical clinics enter the waiting room and find only non-english speaking persons and then are told the clinic is too over-whelmed to take even one more patient....We fight every year to not have our few benifits taken away as more and more ILLEGAL aliens...I dare not say immigrants.....enter into our lands and take up the benifits we as US born citizens should have....I see a family of non-english speaking persons at the local Safeway grocery store buying 2-3 shopping carts full of food and such with W.I.C certificates and food stamps and then taking their food and getting into A BRAND NEW CHEVY SUBURBAN,SO NEW NO LICENSE PLATES YET....Then theres is the LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF "DAY WORKERS",lining the streets that,OH YES IM SURE PAYING TAXES FROM THE CASH THEY EARN,are making these same streets unsafe and dirty with litter....These same {JOKINGLY}tax paying people are the exact reason that my daughter has to endure the humiliating ordeal of almost begging for her right of benifits....Well Tim from GrandHaven and Ed,editor of Ripoff report,I say let these people be treated as harshly and rascistly as possible....BECAUSE WHY???????.....IM PISSED..........AND AS WHITE ANGLO AMERICAN I CAN ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A BIGGOTED RASCIST PERSON......MY WIFE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND I HAVE MANY MEXICAN FRIENDS AND COLLEGES........LEGALLY HERE..

For all of the people that can understand simple facts as Tim from Grand Haven seem to think are not being said.....I have a disabled daughter that cannot get the services or benifits that I,her tax paying USA born citizen father,have paid for with my sweat and blood working for the same nominal wages the corporate america pays all the people that might not highly educated or just plain lucky....We go to the local medical clinics enter the waiting room and find only non-english speaking persons and then are told the clinic is too over-whelmed to take even one more patient....We fight every year to not have our few benifits taken away as more and more ILLEGAL aliens...I dare not say immigrants.....enter into our lands and take up the benifits we as US born citizens should have....I see a family of non-english speaking persons at the local Safeway grocery store buying 2-3 shopping carts full of food and such with W.I.C certificates and food stamps and then taking their food and getting into A BRAND NEW CHEVY SUBURBAN,SO NEW NO LICENSE PLATES YET....Then theres is the LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF "DAY WORKERS",lining the streets that,OH YES IM SURE PAYING TAXES FROM THE CASH THEY EARN,are making these same streets unsafe and dirty with litter....These same {JOKINGLY}tax paying people are the exact reason that my daughter has to endure the humiliating ordeal of almost begging for her right of benifits....Well Tim from GrandHaven and Ed,editor of Ripoff report,I say let these people be treated as harshly and rascistly as possible....BECAUSE WHY???????.....IM PISSED..........AND AS WHITE ANGLO AMERICAN I CAN ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A BIGGOTED RASCIST PERSON......MY WIFE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND I HAVE MANY MEXICAN FRIENDS AND COLLEGES........LEGALLY HERE..

For all of the people that can understand simple facts as Tim from Grand Haven seem to think are not being said.....I have a disabled daughter that cannot get the services or benifits that I,her tax paying USA born citizen father,have paid for with my sweat and blood working for the same nominal wages the corporate america pays all the people that might not highly educated or just plain lucky....We go to the local medical clinics enter the waiting room and find only non-english speaking persons and then are told the clinic is too over-whelmed to take even one more patient....We fight every year to not have our few benifits taken away as more and more ILLEGAL aliens...I dare not say immigrants.....enter into our lands and take up the benifits we as US born citizens should have....I see a family of non-english speaking persons at the local Safeway grocery store buying 2-3 shopping carts full of food and such with W.I.C certificates and food stamps and then taking their food and getting into A BRAND NEW CHEVY SUBURBAN,SO NEW NO LICENSE PLATES YET....Then theres is the LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF "DAY WORKERS",lining the streets that,OH YES IM SURE PAYING TAXES FROM THE CASH THEY EARN,are making these same streets unsafe and dirty with litter....These same {JOKINGLY}tax paying people are the exact reason that my daughter has to endure the humiliating ordeal of almost begging for her right of benifits....Well Tim from GrandHaven and Ed,editor of Ripoff report,I say let these people be treated as harshly and rascistly as possible....BECAUSE WHY???????.....IM PISSED..........AND AS WHITE ANGLO AMERICAN I CAN ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A BIGGOTED RASCIST PERSON......MY WIFE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND I HAVE MANY MEXICAN FRIENDS AND COLLEGES........LEGALLY HERE..

For all of the people that can understand simple facts as Tim from Grand Haven seem to think are not being said.....I have a disabled daughter that cannot get the services or benifits that I,her tax paying USA born citizen father,have paid for with my sweat and blood working for the same nominal wages the corporate america pays all the people that might not highly educated or just plain lucky....We go to the local medical clinics enter the waiting room and find only non-english speaking persons and then are told the clinic is too over-whelmed to take even one more patient....We fight every year to not have our few benifits taken away as more and more ILLEGAL aliens...I dare not say immigrants.....enter into our lands and take up the benifits we as US born citizens should have....I see a family of non-english speaking persons at the local Safeway grocery store buying 2-3 shopping carts full of food and such with W.I.C certificates and food stamps and then taking their food and getting into A BRAND NEW CHEVY SUBURBAN,SO NEW NO LICENSE PLATES YET....Then theres is the LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF "DAY WORKERS",lining the streets that,OH YES IM SURE PAYING TAXES FROM THE CASH THEY EARN,are making these same streets unsafe and dirty with litter....These same {JOKINGLY}tax paying people are the exact reason that my daughter has to endure the humiliating ordeal of almost begging for her right of benifits....Well Tim from GrandHaven and Ed,editor of Ripoff report,I say let these people be treated as harshly and rascistly as possible....BECAUSE WHY???????.....IM PISSED..........AND AS WHITE ANGLO AMERICAN I CAN ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A BIGGOTED RASCIST PERSON......MY WIFE IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND I HAVE MANY MEXICAN FRIENDS AND COLLEGES........LEGALLY HERE..

The Natives had a very poor policy in place regarding immigrants. Look how well that worked for them.

Call them what you want: nothing in this sewer will change or get better for anyone except the local gentry, the "elite" of the past century and a half, until the degenerate, inbred rot of the past is totally destroyed and run out of town in the disgrace they deserve. Their crimes are legion, their corruption and incest infinite, and if they can hire illegals for $2 an hour, they will and do. I have no quarrels with immigrants, but they have to be aware: "anglos" would do many of these jobs for a tad over minimum wage, but not for what the local criminals pay them. Those who do this need to be locked up, do hard time, and be humiliated in every possible way, and by that, I refer to the "chosen ones" who think this depravity is fine. It won't happen in a nepotistic and demented place like Mesa, unless the majority starts to assert itself at the polling place, and over the last 50 years, when the LDS cadres ceased to be the majority, the rest of you have just demurred, pretending it doesn't involve you. How stupid! How dumb!

That was an excellent post and right on target, thanks!

How, can congress do anything with bush vetoing everything next year we need to elect a democrat for president, & stop this mess, bush is the problem. Bush, is messing everything up, bush is stubborn. Let, me say this again how can congress do anything if bush veto's everything.

If the subject of immigration is not brought up for debate and SOON, it will be pushed back until after the elections next year. I agree, the conditions in which many illegal immigrants are living in are abhorrent. We should be prosecuting the business owners that allow that. Just because you decided to enter our country illegally doesn't mean that you should be treated like a farm animal. That said, there should be an amendment to the constitution. Many of these women, as stated in previous posts, come over here, use our hospitals to have their babies and then leave. Or they stay and then scream bloody murder when they are caught and deported without their "American babies". It should be changed to read that if you give birth to a child here in the United States and you are here illegally, your child IS NOT automatically granted U.S. citizenship. Hospitals should be checking I.D. like they check mine so studiously every time I've had to go. If the women is illegal, officials should be notified immediately. Look back 100 years or more when a lot of our ancestors came over from Europe. Remember Ellis Island? Why is it that my ancestors had to do things the right way and never demanded special treatment? Why should illegal aliens have access to our healthcare and receive special privileges that should be designated for honest, legal citizens? Hell, I can't even get healthcare on my own due to conditions that I have. But yet we're treating illegal, non-tax paying aliens for FREE. On to the language thing. My great-grandfather came to the U.S. LEGALLY from Denmark not speaking a word of English. He learned by sitting outside talking with the little kids in the neighborhood since they spoke elementary English. He never demanded that everyone already here learn Danish. Yes, the path to citizenship is long and hard here in the U.S. It is in most developed countries. It is that way for a reason. We want to make sure that you really WANT the citizenship. United States citizenship is not something that should just be handed out on a platter. And this goes for whatever nationality you are. We live in a privileged society. We had to fight long and hard for our privileges. It is time to tell Congress and the President that we are tired of having our privileges usurped by illegal immigrants, whatever country they happen to be from.

Please read this history lesson, I am sure all of you remember this from high school. The Spaniards had long feared that other European powers were planning to invade their sparsely populated northern frontier. They sparred with the French and English in the Mississippi Valley and watched the Russians expand down the Pacific coast, but after Mexico won its independence from Spain, it was the growth of the United States that proved most significant. The process began with Texas in 1836. Six years later, Mexico's secretary of state, Lucs Alamn, warned, "Where others send invading armies...[the Americans] send their colonists." Desperate to fill empty spaces, Mexico invited Americans and other foreign colonists to settle in Texas in 1824. By 1830 there were already more than twice as many Anglos as Mexicans there (7,000 to 3,000). By 1836 the ratio had risen ten to one. When Sam Houston led his rebels to victory at San Jacinto, Texas remained an independent republic until 1845. Mexicans of Texas soon became a minority in their native land. Many citizens of the United States felt they had a God-given mandate to extend their "area of freedom" across North America. On December 27, 1845, John L. O'Sullivan, editor of the New York Morning News, wrote that it was "our manifest destiny to overspread and to possess the whole of the continent which Providence has given us for the development of the great experiment of liberty and federated self-government entrusted to us." Mexico had already broken off relations with the United States in March 1845 after the annexation of Texas. Six months later, President James Polk sent John Slidell to Mexico City to buy California and New Mexico. When the Mexican government refused to negotiate, Polk ordered General Zachary Taylor to occupy disputed territory between the Nueces River and the Rio Grande. A Mexican attack on U.S. troops preceded a U.S. declaration of war on Mexico in May 1846. :( sooooo sad

All of present-day Arizona became part of the Mexican State of Vieja California upon the Mexican assertion of independence from Spain in 1821. The United States took possession of most of Arizona at the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848. In 1853, the land below the Gila River was acquired from Mexico in the Gadsden Purchase. Arizona was administered as part of the Territory of New Mexico until it was organized into a separate territory on February 24, 1863. Arizona was admitted into the Unionofficially becoming a U.S. stateon February 14, 1912. Although the first European visitors to Arizona may have come in 1528, the most influential expeditions in early Spanish Arizona were those of Marcos de Niza and Francisco Vsquez de Coronado[3]. The accounts of the early Spanish explorers of large mythical cities like Cbola and large mineral deposits of copper and silver would attract settlers and miners to the region in later years. These explorations led to the Columbian Exchange in Arizona, and widespread epidemics of smallpox among the Native Americans. Native-American history of early European Arizonan exploration is hard to find, but the O'odham calendar stick is a traditional way of recording notable events, including droughts, invasions, floods that could be used as a source. I bet if all the white people that live in Arizona, Southern California, parts of Texas, (that complain about Mexican's)can't say that that this land was always American soil, right? what would of been of these states if Mexico would of won the war??At least I can say I can trace back my ancestor's back to this precious land but what about the white people, maybe back to Europe somewhere, or the 1st 13 states they claimed. southern cali, peace out !!

All of present-day Arizona became part of the Mexican State of Vieja California upon the Mexican assertion of independence from Spain in 1821. The United States took possession of most of Arizona at the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848. In 1853, the land below the Gila River was acquired from Mexico in the Gadsden Purchase. Arizona was administered as part of the Territory of New Mexico until it was organized into a separate territory on February 24, 1863. Arizona was admitted into the Unionofficially becoming a U.S. stateon February 14, 1912. Although the first European visitors to Arizona may have come in 1528, the most influential expeditions in early Spanish Arizona were those of Marcos de Niza and Francisco Vsquez de Coronado[3]. The accounts of the early Spanish explorers of large mythical cities like Cbola and large mineral deposits of copper and silver would attract settlers and miners to the region in later years. These explorations led to the Columbian Exchange in Arizona, and widespread epidemics of smallpox among the Native Americans. Native-American history of early European Arizonan exploration is hard to find, but the O'odham calendar stick is a traditional way of recording notable events, including droughts, invasions, floods that could be used as a source. I bet if all the white people that live in Arizona, Southern California, parts of Texas, (that complain about Mexican's)can't say that that this land was always American soil, right? what would of been of these states if Mexico would of won the war??At least I can say I can trace back my ancestor's back to this precious land but what about the white people, maybe back to Europe somewhere, or the 1st 13 states they claimed. southern cali, peace out !!

All of present-day Arizona became part of the Mexican State of Vieja California upon the Mexican assertion of independence from Spain in 1821. The United States took possession of most of Arizona at the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848. In 1853, the land below the Gila River was acquired from Mexico in the Gadsden Purchase. Arizona was administered as part of the Territory of New Mexico until it was organized into a separate territory on February 24, 1863. Arizona was admitted into the Unionofficially becoming a U.S. stateon February 14, 1912. Although the first European visitors to Arizona may have come in 1528, the most influential expeditions in early Spanish Arizona were those of Marcos de Niza and Francisco Vsquez de Coronado[3]. The accounts of the early Spanish explorers of large mythical cities like Cbola and large mineral deposits of copper and silver would attract settlers and miners to the region in later years. These explorations led to the Columbian Exchange in Arizona, and widespread epidemics of smallpox among the Native Americans. Native-American history of early European Arizonan exploration is hard to find, but the O'odham calendar stick is a traditional way of recording notable events, including droughts, invasions, floods that could be used as a source. I bet if all the white people that live in Arizona, Southern California, parts of Texas, (that complain about Mexican's)can't say that that this land was always American soil, right? what would of been of these states if Mexico would of won the war??At least I can say I can trace back my ancestor's back to this precious land but what about the white people, maybe back to Europe somewhere, or the 1st 13 states they claimed. southern cali, peace out !!

All of present-day Arizona became part of the Mexican State of Vieja California upon the Mexican assertion of independence from Spain in 1821. The United States took possession of most of Arizona at the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848. In 1853, the land below the Gila River was acquired from Mexico in the Gadsden Purchase. Arizona was administered as part of the Territory of New Mexico until it was organized into a separate territory on February 24, 1863. Arizona was admitted into the Unionofficially becoming a U.S. stateon February 14, 1912. Although the first European visitors to Arizona may have come in 1528, the most influential expeditions in early Spanish Arizona were those of Marcos de Niza and Francisco Vsquez de Coronado[3]. The accounts of the early Spanish explorers of large mythical cities like Cbola and large mineral deposits of copper and silver would attract settlers and miners to the region in later years. These explorations led to the Columbian Exchange in Arizona, and widespread epidemics of smallpox among the Native Americans. Native-American history of early European Arizonan exploration is hard to find, but the O'odham calendar stick is a traditional way of recording notable events, including droughts, invasions, floods that could be used as a source. I bet if all the white people that live in Arizona, Southern California, parts of Texas, (that complain about Mexican's)can't say that that this land was always American soil, right? what would of been of these states if Mexico would of won the war??At least I can say I can trace back my ancestor's back to this precious land but what about the white people, maybe back to Europe somewhere, or the 1st 13 states they claimed. southern cali, peace out !!

How could anyone argue what Henry from San Diego just wrote? I would like to address our hospitals here in Arizona. I live in Arizona and have seen the hospital claims first hand from county hospital as to what we pay for. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for illegals to have babies in this country. Many of the moms do not have prenatal care and therefore often have babies that have complications at birth and NICU charges are astronomical. They are actually coming to the hospital in active labor now because they can't be sent away in this state of their labor. Many come in ambulances charging even more money to our system. I had a baby here in Arizona and didn't come into the hospital until I was truly in labor concerned to be sent home and then have to possibly pay for an "observation" charge at the hospital. I was also concerned the hospital wouldn't have a bed available as illegal immigrants are over-running the hospital system. Especially the labor & delivery units. When I went into labor there was actually an illegal immigrant in the room next to me who HAD come in on an ambulance. My insurance paid for about half of my hospitalization to have a baby. I got to pay the other half and had a bill collector call looking for money. If I couldn't pay, they would go after my credit and my social security number. What do illegal immigrants have to pay for their labors and newborh health charges??? Oh yeah, nothing. Oh and they have also not paid taxes in this country like a mom who may be on medicaid insurance to have her baby and has lived in this country (and has paid taxes) who can't afford her hospitalization. Those of you who say they are "exploited" in this country really need to look at our taxes and what our tax money is going toward. How can you be racist in being upset that you have to pay so much in your taxes for someone who has never paid a dime in U.S. taxes?? They may only make $1.50 an hour, but in the long run they are making a lot more than that by using our state funding for schools and hospitals. My relatives were immigrants to LIVE in this country and make this country flourish. They paid taxes from day one in this country. There is a big difference with LEGALLY coming here to be a citizen and pay taxes with a social security number versus ILLEGALLY being here and using the tax funds. Eventually our hospitals and schools are going to be too over-burdened and will break from this expense. Jessica-Phoenix, AZ

A few months ago I posted facts about how illegal immigration affects US citizens, our government and our country. For some reason, it has "mysteriously disappeared" from this thread. I feel it is important for everyone to know why illegal immigration is a danger to all. The Problems: Why should we stop this invasion and refuse amnesty to those already in the USA? How is it a threat to the US to allow this to continue with open borders? Can anyone dispute the following facts? Can anyone tell us why most Democrats and the Bush administration are so pro-immigration in light of this information? 1. It is a threat to our national security. We must monitor who is allowed into our country for the safety of all citizens. Terrorists can easily cross our borders. "A group of al Qaeda terrorists is attempting to infiltrate the United States from Mexico to conduct attacks in the country, The Washington Times has learned. The al Qaeda members are working with Mexican organized crime groups, such as drug-trafficking organizations, in an attempt to enter the United States covertly, the officials said." According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, hours after the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, an anonymous caller led Mexican immigration agents to 41 undocumented Iraqis waiting to cross into the United States. 2. Crime among illegals has skyrocketed. Illegal immigrants are committing crimes such as robbery, identity theft, auto theft, serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides, child molestation and many other crimes. Our courts are jammed with illegals and our prisons are filled with them. The costs to process these criminals are staggering. Taxpayers must foot the bill for defense and prosecution attorneys, court costs, incarceration, parole services, and many more costs associated with illegal alien crime. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year just incarcerating illegal alien criminals. Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. That translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001. Gangs are growing stronger and larger, becoming more dangerous and more organized and are rapidly spreading throughout the country and to many other countries as well. 3. We need to protect our children. According to the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta, based on a one-year in-depth study, research estimates show there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each. This places the estimate for victimization numbers at close to 1,000,000 for the 88 months examined in this study 4. They are a burden to our school system. Classrooms are over-crowded and teachers cannot spend the time necessary to properly teach our kids. According to past studies, an estimated 1.1 million illegal immigrants are currently in the nation's public school systems. And a recent key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said that California's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body. Rather than being used to improve the quality of education for current students, communities' limited tax dollars are instead being diverted to build new schools to accommodate population growth and to meet the special needs of immigrant children. Including special programs such as bilingual education, which can cost nearly 50 percent more than regular schooling, immigration costs the taxpayers over $24 billion a year in education costs. 5. They undercut our wages. They work for less than American workers can afford to work for. Because they often live in colonies or pack several families into a single family home, draw welfare and free public services, they live cheaply and will work for less than Americans. 6. They replace Americans in the work force. Because they provide cheap labor, many citizens have lost jobs so that large companies can employ this cheap workforce. Under NAFTA, Mexican and Canadian workers in 63 designated categories may be hired in the US, even if qualified American workers are available. The Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University finds that millions of American workers are being severely harmed by the unprecedented wave of legal and illegal immigration over the past decade or so. In addition to the immediate economic impact on younger and less skilled Americans, the phenomenon will likely have long-term negative consequences for American society. As the Hispanic population continues to rise, more Native Americans are being displaced in the workforce. 7. They are bankrupting our health care system. They go to free clinics and hospital emergency rooms for free treatment, whether it is an emergency or not. Many hospitals have now closed their emergency rooms because they cannot afford to continue to provide these services without payment. An illegal alien mother only has to say she is "undocumented" in order to receive immediate - and free - medical care. Mexican ambulance drivers are driving their hospital patients who can't pay for medical care in Mexico, to facilities in the United States. They know that the federal Emergency Medical Act mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens. Eighty-four California hospitals have closed their ERs between 1994 and 2003. 8. They threaten the sovereignty of the United States. Mexicans are not coming here merely as individuals seeking economic opportunities, but as a nation, expressing their national identity and collective will. They refuse to learn English and they demand that their language be accepted and we have obliged them, inconveniencing our own citizens. We have to read through instructions to find the English versions, we have to press one to hear English on the telephone, signs and advertising are now in English and Spanish. Our schools are now having to provide Spanish-speaking teachers and Spanish textbooks. And most likely it will continue until all road signs and public notices are in Spanish as well. This is a tremendous cost to the taxpayers. The covert agreement signed in 2005 by President Bush, former Mexican President Fox, and the former Canadian Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin known as the North American Union, aka "The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America", is a plan to eliminate the borders between the US and Mexico and the US and Canada and is rapidly moving forward with very little fanfare. [The] Joint Statement of the three leaders [state] that our... boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly, and safe. The agreement further states: "A long-term goal should be to create a North American preference'new rules that would make it much easier for employees to move and for employers to recruit across national boundaries within the continent." In its section, "What We Should Do by 2010", it explains: "Move to full labor mobility between Canada and the United States. To make companies based in North America as competitive as possible in the global economy, Canada and the United States should consider eliminating all remaining barriers to the ability of their citizens to live and work in the other country. This free flow of people would offer an important advantage to employers in both countries by giving them rapid access to a larger pool of skilled labor, and would enhance the well-being of individuals in both countries by enabling them to move quickly to where their skills are needed. In the long term, the two countries should work to extend this policy to Mexico as well, though doing so will not be practical until wage differentials between Mexico and its two North American neighbors have diminished considerably." If this plan is enacted it would destroy our sovereignty and create a borderless United States and a common currency (called the Amero) among the three former countries. 9. America is getting over-crowded. Our highways are over-burdened and a simple commute to work sometimes takes hours. New roads and infrastructure are needed and the higher use of these things require more maintenance costing billions of dollars. The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that a new immigrant enters this country every 31 seconds. The Heritage Foundation found that the changes in immigration law would allow an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the United States over the next 20 years and "dramatically" change "the character of the nation." 10. Bi-lingual problems with public servants. Our police, drivers license employees, hospital employees, welfare workers, social workers, and many organizations must train or hire bi-lingual employees. Hiring bi-lingual employees is easier than training English-only speaking employees, so the bi-lingual is often hired ahead of US citizens that may be more qualified for the position. 11. Drug cartels can infiltrate the US easily. The majority of the drugs in this country come from Mexico. The increased availability of these drugs cause additional crime and devastation to the individuals and families of those who become addicted. Eighty percent of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. 12. Hit and run accidents are on the rise. Because illegals do not want to get caught because they may be intoxicated, do not have a valid drivers license or insurance and fear deportation, they will flee the scene of an accident because they have nothing to lose, often leaving injured victims alone and helpless. Nearly 300 people are killed annually in hit-and-run accidents in California alone. 13. They use the "anchor baby" method to get citizenship. The 2.2 million children of illegal immigrants in America, often referred to as anchor babies, ensure the parents can stay, provide a path to citizenship for themselves and their families, and add an additional $20 billion to the tab for medical care. In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated. 14. Poverty is increasing. Since most Mexicans crossing the border are poverty stricken and under-educated, they are not providing the quality of citizens that will allow our country to maintain the high education standards and keep us powerful and prosperous. The poverty level will increase the need for the middle class to provide more support through taxes. Uneducated immigrants, regardless of heritage or ethnicity, who have little interest in education, generally end up with poorly educated children. Even in the fourth generation - after at least fifty to sixty years of "assimilation," it appears that the descendents of Mexican immigrants display scant interest in higher education. This is a stunning finding. It belies the expectation that college-based affirmative action programs would eventually level the education playing field. 15. They send back to Mexico billions of dollars per year. This is bad for the US economy because that money should stay in the US to keep our country financially strong. That money spent in the US for goods and services would strengthen our economy. Mexicans living outside their country sent home a record $23 billion dollars in 2006. 16. Illegal immigrants are allowed to claim children living back in Mexico and qualify for the earned-income tax credit that traditionally has helped the American poor. 17. They use more services than they provide in taxes. The Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, said U.S. households headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services during 2002, but paid $16 billion in taxes, an annual cost to taxpayers of $10 billion. 18. They do not want to assimilate in the US. They want their own culture, flag, language, currency and do not try to become true Americans. It appears that they hate Americans but love the benefits America has to offer. When you add millions of immigrants that can't speak our national language, they emotionally, physically and intellectually separate. A nation cannot long survive when its citizens cannot speak to one another. 19. They are breaking the law by coming here. Their first encounter in the US is an illegal one, making them more inclined to feel it is OK to break the laws in the future. Granting amnesty to law-breakers only reinforces that philosophy. 20. Law enforcement officers are at risk. These guards risk their lives daily to protect our country. If the border was fenced, it would reduce the need for as many guards and would reduce the number of encounters with dangerous drug smugglers, violent criminals, and law breakers.. 21. The proposed guest worker program would still allow unsupervised activity. Who will be responsible for the activities of these workers when they are not on the job? Who will pay the price for their crimes and illegal activities? And what are the real costs this program would add to the taxpayers' tab? 22. Taxpayers are paying for shelters for unemployed farm workers. Farmers and other agricultural workers who find themselves unemployed as a result of the recent crop-destroying cold snap can find assistance at 18 newly opened centers in California. 23. The spread of diseases to humans. "Undocumented" aliens are not inoculated against health threats resulting in new outbreaks of diseases such as leprosy, multiple-drug-resistant TB, Chagas disease, dengue fever, polio, malaria and intestinal parasites. With the reports of active TB cases, Americans should be especially worried about disease control, particularly since TB is considered an epidemic in Mexico. A brain infection caused by a pork tapeworm, is a "growing public health problem in the United States," especially in states bordering Mexico, where the disease is endemic. 24. The spread of diseases to livestock. Dr. Gary Thrasher, a Palominas veterinarian who specializes in cattle herd health, said stray cows are a major concern for ranchers on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border. There are at least 30 serious health problems that can affect local herds, he said, and since most cows have not been exposed to all the illnesses, they haven't developed a natural resistance. Furthermore, Thrasher said there are at least 10 foreign illnesses that pose a risk to local cattle due to unregulated human traffic across the border. Possibly the most dangerous is foot-and-mouth disease. Thrasher said a major foot-and-mouth outbreak could virtually destroy the livestock industry in the United States. 25. Illegal aliens to receive Social Security benefits. Given the fact that a proposed Totalization Agreement would cover not just Mexican workers but also their spouses and dependents, it is highly likely that over time, potentially millions of people would receive U.S. Social Security benefits and the cost would be in the billions of dollars. 26. The actual costs to taxpayers for illegal immigration is more than $60 billion per year. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. Congressman Ted Poe of Texas lists the costs of illegal immigration in his speech to Congress. If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion. 27. Americans are being prosecuted and persecuted for protecting their country and their property. The two border agents, Ramos and Campean, are good examples of this but there are dozens upon dozens of cases where illegals prevail over US citizens. Rural citizens here have met with savage recriminations for exerting their legal rights. Immigration advocacy groups howl in protest, as does the Mexican government. Their lawyers have demanded that the ranchers be prosecuted for false arrest, kidnapping, intimidation, criminal assault and violation of civil rights anything lawyers can come up with to advance their clients' interests. Illegal immigrants have now sued some Cochise County citizens in American courts. In the Ramos/Campean case, the drug dealer was granted immunity from prosecution for his testimony against the two border agents and then sued the US for $5 million dollars for "violating his civil rights". 28. We are depleting our natural resources. Overpopulation is creating irreversible damage to our country and our planet. In many states, water is already a serious issue. More of our open spaces will be turned into housing communities, shopping centers and parking lots. Our animal species are fast becoming extinct. Pollution is destroying our sea beds, coral reefs, air quality, and many of our endangered species. Our wetlands are being destroyed. Over-produced farmland will be depleted of precious minerals. Our forests are being destroyed so that more homes can be built. Our landfills are becoming larger and larger. More sources of power will be needed and that means using more fuel to create it. 29. They are creating slums. Third world slums began appearing along our borders from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in the 80s. They're called Colonias, which is Spanish for new neighborhoods. They feature shacks, no sewers, no streets, no running water, no electricity, no toilet facilities or waste pickup. The New York Times, March 3, 1988, Along the US Border, a Third World is Reborn, reported, Colonias are rusted trailers and shacks nailed together from tar paper and packing pallets without indoor toiletswith mounds of uncollected trash that attract ratsthe lack of sanitation has polluted the ground water to the point where many residents drink their own wastethe colonias feature Third World levels of hepatitis, dysentery, diarrhea, skin rashes, cholera and tuberculosisthey are contaminated, explosive, fecal, filthy, illegal, miserable, polluted, powder kegs, putrid, shocking, sick, stench filled, suffering and wrenching. 30. They are causing citizens' "out of pocket" costs to rise. Auto insurance rates are rising due to more uninsured drivers, hit and run accidents, reckless driving by illegals, and denser populations [read part 1 & part 2]. Medical coverage, health insurance, clinic fees, hospital visits are all rising due to illegal immigrants not paying their way. These are just a few of the cost increases individuals are facing. 31. Many illegals are being paid in cash and not reporting their income. Farm workers, gardeners, maids, housekeepers, laborers, are avoiding paying taxes yet are quick to take advantage of our free public services for low income or unemployed "undocumented" aliens. 32. They want to take back what they believe is their territory. There is a strong movement on to take back the territories they sold to the US. According to a Zogby poll in 2002, 58 percent of the Mexican people believed the U.S. Southwest belongs to Mexico, and 57 percent believed that Mexicans have the right to enter the United States without U.S. permission. 33. The Mexican government is aiding in the invasion. The Mexican invasion of the United States began decades ago as a spontaneous migration of ordinary Mexicans into the U.S. seeking economic opportunities. It has morphed into a campaign to occupy and gain power over our countrya project encouraged, abetted, and organized by the Mexican state and supported by the leading elements of Mexican society. Anyone thinking that illegal immigration is a victimless crime is DEAD WRONG!

Henry, It is good to finally see someone with some common sense on this thread. Good job. As far as the propaganda that so many [Aafes] believe regarding the relationsip between wages and prices, here is some education. Employee wages are a small part of the overall cost of running a business, usually being around 13%. Therefore, the difference between paying that person $9.00/hr and a living wage of about $12.00/hr would have nothing to do with the alleged $5 head of lettuce, etc. This is nothing but propaganda by big business who simply expect obscene profits in everything they do, and hiring illegals helps achieve that goal. There is a far more negative impact on our society as a whole with illegal immigration, than we would face without it.

And to the braindead one who said that legal immigrants support illegals. That is BS. I work with quite a few legals. They worked their tailends off to get here and are good honest people unlike the illegals. They are angrier at the criminals than others are much more so.

1. They never pay taxes. They steal an identity work under that claim emough exemptions not to pay taxes and low and behold someone finds the IRS after them for those taxes "earned" under their SSN. 2. The incidents of crimes committed is 5 times as high as those of any other group. 3. THEY WANT THE US TO BECOME MEXICO. They crapped their country and now want to crap ours. Every other immigrant group comes here to become american. These "people" come here to make this country Mexico. Good treat them this way. Make it so bad illegals don't want to come here. Still they will until we stop them. Mexico is a big blankhole. I do have to say seeing how the Muslims are destroying Europe I'd rather have the Mexicans than them. Most of the mexicans just want our money. The muslims want to kill us. And if we really need these workers deport the criminals and every single one is one they are breaking the law by being here and bring in the millions of good people trying to get here legally.

I don't think you have a clue as to how the system works. Legal immigration has nothing to do with embassies or consulates not issuing visas. They only issue travel visas for temporary visits and they can decide who is a security risk and turn the application down. Legal immigration is at the discretion of the of the INS and only they issue permanent residence cards - green cards.

After reading almost all the post and responses, I'll like to say this. I feel many people venture to enter the USA illegally because even if they are qualified legally to get a visa to visit ot immigrate, when they go to the Consulates or Embassies they are most often then not denied visas even though their documents supports their cause. It's a paradox in my opinion. The Consulates and Embassies must make money, so how else will they get a profit if they don't deny some people visas. This way those denied are told to apply again when their situation changes thus pouring more money into the US coffers. The end results, a person would rather risk going ilegally to USA and stay then doing it the legal way and get rip off by the very system that has bene placed to monitor the flow of immigrants.

Aafes stated the following: "I have first hand knowledge of just what occurs in most of these situations, from farm labor to construction to meat packing plants. "On average, most of the Americans who are hired to do these jobs last a week or less. I worked with the Unemployment office in Yuma Arizona for years and had job seekers that I placed in these jobs return repeatedly seeking new employment. When queried as to why they did not stay with the job in which they were place the responses ran from 'It is not worth being in the sun all day" to "Picking lettuce is too hard, my back hurts all the time and I can't do it....'" Aafes, there are good reasons why many people are at the unemployment office in the first place. Many are lazy, expect to be paid a good wage for doing little work, are unreliable, or have alcohol or drug problems. They are there because no employer finds them to be acceptable workers. It's also true that Americans don't want to do that work for what many Mexicans will do it for. And that's understandable. Most Americans don't live with 20 people sharing a single family home, drive without auto insurance, and live off the free public assistance progams. So they have to be paid more in order to live a "normal" American lifestyle. Aafes says: "Face it, most Americans are NOT going to work 12 hours in 104 degree weather picking lettuce for $9.00 an hour. On the same note we are not willing to pay $5.00 a pound for ground beef or $2500.00 for 2 square feet of driveway..." I say: It is true that costs of products will increase due to higher wages. But you also have to factor in the costs of having illegals in this country. I have listed those costs in my previous post. I believe that when all is said and done, we will be better off financially and in many other ways if the illegals were not here and no amnesty was given to those here now. Aafes says: "The employers MUST be held liable and the government must establish and enforce MANDATORY penalties for hiring undocumented workers. This will cost the tax base money so expect taxes to rise as a result. "This will cost the employers profit so expect the prices of retail goods to rise. "Or perhaps we should simply leave it alone." I say: I agree that employers should be held liable and our government should enforce laws and impose penalties. But won't taxes decrease when the government no longer has to provide endless services to accommodate the illegal invaders? Leave it alone??? I don't think we can turn our heads when such a problem exists. That is what we have been doing for decades and the problems continue to worsen.

I live in Southern California and just last week I took a trip to Rosarito in the Baja of Mexico. I had heard it was a great place to retire. What I found when I visited the area was quite a shock. This beautiful area on the western coast was like a slum. People living in broken down shacks and shoddy mobile homes, junk peddlers lined up on the streets, filthy sidewalks and streets, restaurants with disgusting restrooms, roads in disrepair... I could go on and on. On my way back home, for miles just before the border crossing in Tijuana, dozens and dozens of Mexicans were walking in and out of the five lanes of traffic that were crawling along waiting to cross the border, peddling everything imaginable... fruit, food, blankets, pottery, kid's desks, velvet paintings, trinkets, drinks, clothing... it was like a walking flea market. I half expected to see some one walking down between the lanes of cars carrying a sofa and recliner. Young children with their mothers dashing between cars with no regard for safety. I could not help but wonder how soon many areas in the United States would look the same as Rosarito and Tijuana. After all, we are allowing them to enter our country by the millions. I keep hearing the same old arguments from the bleeding hearts... "These illegal Mexicans are doing the jobs Americans won't do." And... "Do you realize how much a head of lettuce would cost without this cheap labor?" Well, the facts are that the work got done before the illegals poured into our country and the work will get done if they leave. And that head of lettuce will indeed cost us more, but our costs to support these illegals through free benefits given to them by our country will be reduced substantially. If anyone thinks that illegal immigration does not affect us that much, they need to look at the following: 1. It is a threat to our national security. We must monitor who is allowed into our country for the safety of all citizens. Terrorists can easily cross our borders. "A group of al Qaeda terrorists is attempting to infiltrate the United States from Mexico to conduct attacks in the country, The Washington Times has learned. The al Qaeda members are working with Mexican organized crime groups, such as drug-trafficking organizations, in an attempt to enter the United States covertly, the officials said." According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, hours after the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, an anonymous caller led Mexican immigration agents to 41 undocumented Iraqis waiting to cross into the United States. 2. Crime among illegals has skyrocketed. Illegal immigrants are committing crimes such as robbery, identity theft, auto theft, serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides, child molestation and many other crimes. Our courts are jammed with illegals and our prisons are filled with them. The costs to process these criminals are staggering. Taxpayers must foot the bill for defense and prosecution attorneys, court costs, incarceration, parole services, and many more costs associated with illegal alien crime. Taxpayers pay half-a-billion dollars per year just incarcerating illegal alien criminals. Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. That translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001. Gangs are growing stronger and larger, becoming more dangerous and more organized and are rapidly spreading throughout the country and to many other countries as well. 3. We need to protect our children. According to the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta, based on a one-year in-depth study, research estimates show there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each. This places the estimate for victimization numbers at close to 1,000,000 for the 88 months examined in this study 4. They are a burden to our school system. Classrooms are over-crowded and teachers cannot spend the time necessary to properly teach our kids. According to past studies, an estimated 1.1 million illegal immigrants are currently in the nation's public school systems. And a recent key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said that California's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body. Rather than being used to improve the quality of education for current students, communities' limited tax dollars are instead being diverted to build new schools to accommodate population growth and to meet the special needs of immigrant children. Including special programs such as bilingual education, which can cost nearly 50 percent more than regular schooling, immigration costs the taxpayers over $24 billion a year in education costs. 5. They undercut our wages. They work for less than American workers can afford to work for. Because they often live in colonies or pack several families into a single family home, draw welfare and free public services, they live cheaply and will work for less than Americans. 6. They replace Americans in the work force. Because they provide cheap labor, many citizens have lost jobs so that large companies can employ this cheap workforce. Under NAFTA, Mexican and Canadian workers in 63 designated categories may be hired in the US, even if qualified American workers are available. The Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University finds that millions of American workers are being severely harmed by the unprecedented wave of legal and illegal immigration over the past decade or so. In addition to the immediate economic impact on younger and less skilled Americans, the phenomenon will likely have long-term negative consequences for American society. As the Hispanic population continues to rise, more Native Americans are being displaced in the workforce. 7. They are bankrupting our health care system. They go to free clinics and hospital emergency rooms for free treatment, whether it is an emergency or not. Many hospitals have now closed their emergency rooms because they cannot afford to continue to provide these services without payment. An illegal alien mother only has to say she is "undocumented" in order to receive immediate - and free - medical care. Mexican ambulance drivers are driving their hospital patients who can't pay for medical care in Mexico, to facilities in the United States. They know that the federal Emergency Medical Act mandates that U.S. hospitals with emergency-room services must treat anyone who requires care, including illegal aliens. Eighty-four California hospitals have closed their ERs between 1994 and 2003. 8. They threaten the sovereignty of the United States. Mexicans are not coming here merely as individuals seeking economic opportunities, but as a nation, expressing their national identity and collective will. They refuse to learn English and they demand that their language be accepted and we have obliged them, inconveniencing our own citizens. We have to read through instructions to find the English versions, we have to press one to hear English on the telephone, signs and advertising are now in English and Spanish. Our schools are now having to provide Spanish-speaking teachers and Spanish textbooks. And most likely it will continue until all road signs and public notices are in Spanish as well. This is a tremendous cost to the taxpayers. The covert agreement signed in 2005 by President Bush, former Mexican President Fox, and the former Canadian Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin known as the North American Union, aka "The Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America", is a plan to eliminate the borders between the US and Mexico and the US and Canada and is rapidly moving forward with very little fanfare. [The] Joint Statement of the three leaders [state] that our... boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly, and safe. The agreement further states: "A long-term goal should be to create a North American preference'new rules that would make it much easier for employees to move and for employers to recruit across national boundaries within the continent." In its section, "What We Should Do by 2010", it explains: "Move to full labor mobility between Canada and the United States. To make companies based in North America as competitive as possible in the global economy, Canada and the United States should consider eliminating all remaining barriers to the ability of their citizens to live and work in the other country. This free flow of people would offer an important advantage to employers in both countries by giving them rapid access to a larger pool of skilled labor, and would enhance the well-being of individuals in both countries by enabling them to move quickly to where their skills are needed. In the long term, the two countries should work to extend this policy to Mexico as well, though doing so will not be practical until wage differentials between Mexico and its two North American neighbors have diminished considerably." If this plan is enacted it would destroy our sovereignty and create a borderless United States and a common currency (called the Amero) among the three former countries. 9. America is getting over-crowded. Our highways are over-burdened and a simple commute to work sometimes takes hours. New roads and infrastructure are needed and the higher use of these things require more maintenance costing billions of dollars. The U.S. Census Bureau estimates that a new immigrant enters this country every 31 seconds. The Heritage Foundation found that the changes in immigration law would allow an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the United States over the next 20 years and "dramatically" change "the character of the nation." 10. Bi-lingual problems with public servants. Our police, drivers license employees, hospital employees, welfare workers, social workers, and many organizations must train or hire bi-lingual employees. Hiring bi-lingual employees is easier than training English-only speaking employees, so the bi-lingual is often hired ahead of US citizens that may be more qualified for the position. 11. Drug cartels can infiltrate the US easily. The majority of the drugs in this country come from Mexico. The increased availability of these drugs cause additional crime and devastation to the individuals and families of those who become addicted. Eighty percent of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals. 12. Hit and run accidents are on the rise. Because illegals do not want to get caught because they may be intoxicated, do not have a valid drivers license or insurance and fear deportation, they will flee the scene of an accident because they have nothing to lose, often leaving injured victims alone and helpless. Nearly 300 people are killed annually in hit-and-run accidents in California alone. 13. They use the "anchor baby" method to get citizenship. The 2.2 million children of illegal immigrants in America, often referred to as anchor babies, ensure the parents can stay, provide a path to citizenship for themselves and their families, and add an additional $20 billion to the tab for medical care. In a recent year in Colorado, the state's emergency Medicaid program paid an estimated $30 million in hospital and physician delivery costs for about 6,000 illegal immigrant mothers - average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens represent 40% of the births paid for by Medicaid in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for full Medicaid services, with a cost yet to be tabulated. 14. Poverty is increasing. Since most Mexicans crossing the border are poverty stricken and under-educated, they are not providing the quality of citizens that will allow our country to maintain the high education standards and keep us powerful and prosperous. The poverty level will increase the need for the middle class to provide more support through taxes. Uneducated immigrants, regardless of heritage or ethnicity, who have little interest in education, generally end up with poorly educated children. Even in the fourth generation - after at least fifty to sixty years of "assimilation," it appears that the descendents of Mexican immigrants display scant interest in higher education. This is a stunning finding. It belies the expectation that college-based affirmative action programs would eventually level the education playing field. 15. They send back to Mexico billions of dollars per year. This is bad for the US economy because that money should stay in the US to keep our country financially strong. That money spent in the US for goods and services would strengthen our economy. Mexicans living outside their country sent home a record $23 billion dollars in 2006. 16. Illegal immigrants are allowed to claim children living back in Mexico and qualify for the earned-income tax credit that traditionally has helped the American poor. 17. They use more services than they provide in taxes. The Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, said U.S. households headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services during 2002, but paid $16 billion in taxes, an annual cost to taxpayers of $10 billion. 18. They do not want to assimilate in the US. They want their own culture, flag, language, currency and do not try to become true Americans. It appears that they hate Americans but love the benefits America has to offer. When you add millions of immigrants that can't speak our national language, they emotionally, physically and intellectually separate. A nation cannot long survive when its citizens cannot speak to one another. 19. They are breaking the law by coming here. Their first encounter in the US is an illegal one, making them more inclined to feel it is OK to break the laws in the future. Granting amnesty to law-breakers only reinforces that philosophy. 20. Law enforcement officers are at risk. These guards risk their lives daily to protect our country. If the border was fenced, it would reduce the need for as many guards and would reduce the number of encounters with dangerous drug smugglers, violent criminals, and law breakers.. 21. The proposed guest worker program would still allow unsupervised activity. Who will be responsible for the activities of these workers when they are not on the job? Who will pay the price for their crimes and illegal activities? And what are the real costs this program would add to the taxpayers' tab? 22. Taxpayers are paying for shelters for unemployed farm workers. Farmers and other agricultural workers who find themselves unemployed as a result of the recent crop-destroying cold snap can find assistance at 18 newly opened centers in California. 23. The spread of diseases to humans. "Undocumented" aliens are not inoculated against health threats resulting in new outbreaks of diseases such as leprosy, multiple-drug-resistant TB, Chagas disease, dengue fever, polio, malaria and intestinal parasites. With the reports of active TB cases, Americans should be especially worried about disease control, particularly since TB is considered an epidemic in Mexico. A brain infection caused by a pork tapeworm, is a "growing public health problem in the United States," especially in states bordering Mexico, where the disease is endemic. 24. The spread of diseases to livestock. Dr. Gary Thrasher, a Palominas veterinarian who specializes in cattle herd health, said stray cows are a major concern for ranchers on both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border. There are at least 30 serious health problems that can affect local herds, he said, and since most cows have not been exposed to all the illnesses, they haven't developed a natural resistance. Furthermore, Thrasher said there are at least 10 foreign illnesses that pose a risk to local cattle due to unregulated human traffic across the border. Possibly the most dangerous is foot-and-mouth disease. Thrasher said a major foot-and-mouth outbreak could virtually destroy the livestock industry in the United States. 25. Illegal aliens to receive Social Security benefits. Given the fact that a proposed Totalization Agreement would cover not just Mexican workers but also their spouses and dependents, it is highly likely that over time, potentially millions of people would receive U.S. Social Security benefits and the cost would be in the billions of dollars. 26. The actual costs to taxpayers for illegal immigration is more than $60 billion per year. FAIR research shows "the net annual cost of immigration has been estimated at between $67 and $87 billion a year. Congressman Ted Poe of Texas lists the costs of illegal immigration in his speech to Congress. If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion. 27. Americans are being prosecuted and persecuted for protecting their country and their property. The two border agents, Ramos and Campean, are good examples of this but there are dozens upon dozens of cases where illegals prevail over US citizens. Rural citizens here have met with savage recriminations for exerting their legal rights. Immigration advocacy groups howl in protest, as does the Mexican government. Their lawyers have demanded that the ranchers be prosecuted for false arrest, kidnapping, intimidation, criminal assault and violation of civil rights anything lawyers can come up with to advance their clients' interests. Illegal immigrants have now sued some Cochise County citizens in American courts. In the Ramos/Campean case, the drug dealer was granted immunity from prosecution for his testimony against the two border agents and then sued the US for $5 million dollars for "violating his civil rights". 28. We are depleting our natural resources. Overpopulation is creating irreversible damage to our country and our planet. In many states, water is already a serious issue. More of our open spaces will be turned into housing communities, shopping centers and parking lots. Our animal species are fast becoming extinct. Pollution is destroying our sea beds, coral reefs, air quality, and many of our endangered species. Our wetlands are being destroyed. Over-produced farmland will be depleted of precious minerals. Our forests are being destroyed so that more homes can be built. Our landfills are becoming larger and larger. More sources of power will be needed and that means using more fuel to create it. 29. They are creating slums. Third world slums began appearing along our borders from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in the 80s. They're called Colonias, which is Spanish for new neighborhoods. They feature shacks, no sewers, no streets, no running water, no electricity, no toilet facilities or waste pickup. The New York Times, March 3, 1988, Along the US Border, a Third World is Reborn, reported, Colonias are rusted trailers and shacks nailed together from tar paper and packing pallets without indoor toiletswith mounds of uncollected trash that attract ratsthe lack of sanitation has polluted the ground water to the point where many residents drink their own wastethe colonias feature Third World levels of hepatitis, dysentery, diarrhea, skin rashes, cholera and tuberculosisthey are contaminated, explosive, fecal, filthy, illegal, miserable, polluted, powder kegs, putrid, shocking, sick, stench filled, suffering and wrenching. 30. They are causing citizens' "out of pocket" costs to rise. Auto insurance rates are rising due to more uninsured drivers, hit and run accidents, reckless driving by illegals, and denser populations [read part 1 & part 2]. Medical coverage, health insurance, clinic fees, hospital visits are all rising due to illegal immigrants not paying their way. These are just a few of the cost increases individuals are facing. 31. Many illegals are being paid in cash and not reporting their income. Farm workers, gardeners, maids, housekeepers, laborers, are avoiding paying taxes yet are quick to take advantage of our free public services for low income or unemployed "undocumented" aliens. 32. They want to take back what they believe is their territory. There is a strong movement on to take back the territories they sold to the US. According to a Zogby poll in 2002, 58 percent of the Mexican people believed the U.S. Southwest belongs to Mexico, and 57 percent believed that Mexicans have the right to enter the United States without U.S. permission. 33. The Mexican government is aiding in the invasion. The Mexican invasion of the United States began decades ago as a spontaneous migration of ordinary Mexicans into the U.S. seeking economic opportunities. It has morphed into a campaign to occupy and gain power over our countrya project encouraged, abetted, and organized by the Mexican state and supported by the leading elements of Mexican society. So, illegal immigration is neither a victim-less crime nor is it insignificant in regards to the effect on the American people. The fault lies with our own government and it's representatives. We must demand that our borders be secured, employers be severely punished for hiring illegals, illegal lawbreakers that are caught be punished and then quickly deported, and a system be put in place to identify legal residents. Only then should we address the issue of what to do with the remaining illegal aliens. Plug the holes, enforce the laws, and then deal with remaining problems.

It is very sad to see those kind of living conditions right here in the United States. But unfortunatly if all of the workers were legal then they would have valid rights to take agressive action. I have read some very harsh words being tossed around in regards to race and culture and i know when people are emotional about things that they tend to lash out, but the fact of the mater is this country is founded on all races and should be done the legal way.. I realize it is a very heated subject with the imigration and I also realize that no one really wants those jobs . My father and all of his siblings came over from germany during the 2nd world war and there was so many rules that they had to comply with before they were allowed into the states. I believe that immigration laws are in place to protect both the american citizen and the imigrants wanting to become a citizen. I have to be honest and say that the monthly amount I pay out in income taxes is gruesome. When I think about all the Americans that are on welfare who could help out in the fields and find decent work if they just tried. The key is we need to find a way to stop driving down the wages of the blue collar worker and bring them back up so that the citizens of America will want to take those jobs and get off the goverment assisted checks and go out and make there own way. No american wants to work for less than decent wages. And no American should work for less than decent wages and the empoleyers should quit paying sub standard wages. Honestly I am tired of paying for familys who are not trying to help themselfs in this great country. Look at what the people from Cuba do just to come to america. They risk their lifes at sea in a little rubber inter tube just to have the chance at making a better life for them selfs. Why is it that in some cases only the imigrants who appreciate our country and fight for the right to improve their livng conditons We have lower income and poverty citizens all over the country and for some reason the majority of them lost their fight to reach the top or cant get any help from the goverment to at least stand on there own feet. We are to focused on everyone else than on us. We need to fix and clean our house before fixing someone elses house. And I am not a bigot, it is just that we have the same oppresion here in the states and the same poverty right in our own back yard and who is standing up for them? We need to stop the illegal crossing of the boarders and start paying decent wages to american workers so that we can keep the citizens of our country working and paying their mortgages or rent. Lets reach out and help the people who need it here in the states. I travel all over the world and have seen horrible conditions and which I am very lucky and thankful that I was born in the states. I knwo that if I buckle down and work my butt off I can get what I need, maybe not what i want but need. Is it to much to ask to help our own first. And that is regardless of race or gender. If the white crack w***e wants to go to school to better her self and quit selling her butt to put food on the table for her kids dont you think we should try to make that possible? We need to quit pointing the finger and start working on our country.

wow! talk about a long thread I tried to read every post on this subject of illegals but there were just to many to read. Personally I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to understand what it going on here. In my opinion its all political,and the people getting screwed are the american middle class people. Look the Democrats love the illegals here cuz they will become democrats and vote them into office, so the more the merrier for them. The big business likes them here because they can exploit them and get cheap labor. The illegals like it cuz they can have work, use our school sytem for free and use our medical system for free. Who gets screwed on this deal? the average american because we are paying for the so called free schools and free medical and we are losing jobs to illegal, not to mention the increase in crime. It is we the average american that suffers from the onslaught of illegals. Look this country has laws just like any other country has laws, and almost all countrys have borders and strong laws that guard their borders, the USA is no different. If you live in Guadamala just south of Mexico and you sneak across the border into Mexico and the Mexicans catch you, you are in big trouble. Im talking beatings, rape, jail, theft, etc So the Mexicans have no right complaining to Americans about our border system. Next, crossing into this country without the proper papers and permission is ILLEGAL, period. Once a person, any person of any race or religion or whatever crosses into this nation without proper legal documantation you are considered an ILLEGAL ALIEN...period. Not only are you breaking the laws of anerica, you are slapping us in the face, you are also cutting the line of many people who do have the proper documents and who have waited sometimes for years to get into this country. As for the guy that said something to the effect that some of our states used to belong to Mexico. Well you need to brush up on your history because if you knew what you were talking about you would know that much of the land you speak of was PURCHASED from Mexico, and the remaining was won in battle. Also you seem to forget that before the Mexicans were here the Native Americans were here...so whose land is it the Americans? the Mexicans? or the Native Americans? something to think about. Not only that, what would you do with all this land if it magically became mexico again? you can't even manage mexico, Mexico is a mess, always has been and probably always will be...so what do you want with more land when you can't take care of what you now have? As for the French, leave them out of this, they are spinless, even mexico kicked their a*s. They talk alot but are harmless, just ignore them, and never depend on them to watch your back. The USA is what it is which is one of if not the best country in the world. Stop trying to change us and stop trying to abuse us. We are sorry so many other countries dont have their act together, we are sorry so many countries are poor and have corrupt goverments,we are sorry so many countries have dictators or socialists, we are sorry you have poverty and revelutions and crime and poor economies and all your other problems. However, blamming the USA is not going to solve your problems and sneaking across our borders wont solve your problems either. If you wanna be an american..thats fine, get the proper documents and get in line just like my family did 100 years ago.

Jeff, while I respect your "drive by" observations of Illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans who would be willing to take them I must dissent. I have first hand knowledge of just what occurs in most of these situations, from farm labor to construction to meat packing plants. Yes, there are Americans willing to take the jobs. However, the record of those same job seekers being reliable and showing up day in and day out to perform a job that is tantamount to hard labor is poor. On average, most of the Americans who are hired to do these jobs last a week or less. I worked with the Unemployment office in Yuma Arizona for years and had job seekers that I placed in these jobs return repeatedly seeking new employment. When queried as to why they did not stay with the job in which they were place the responses ran from "It is not worth being in the sun all day" to "Picking lettuce is too hard, my back hurts all the time and I can't do it...." I would expect the same is true of meat packing plant jobs, construction jobs or any other hard labor job. While I acknowledge there are many hard working Americans willing to take the jobs and some will stick with them it is not the norm. Our economy, and our inherent desire to live cheaply so we can afford luxuries has driven contractors, suppliers etc. to seek the cheapest work force available. Face it, most Americans are NOT going to work 12 hours in 104 degree weather picking lettuce for $9.00 an hour. On the same note we are not willing to pay $5.00 a pound for ground beef or $2500.00 for 2 square feet of driveway... As long as the jobs are available, the employers provide them without real fear of penalty from the Government the workers will continue to come. The employers MUST be held liable and the government must establish and enforce MANDATORY penalties for hiring undocumented workers. This will cost the tax base money so expect taxes to rise as a result. This will cost the employers profit so expect the prices of retail goods to rise. Or perhaps we should simply leave it alone.

You know this whole thing that "Americans wont take the jobs" is a bunch of crap. I am a truck driver,I deal with illegal's at least twice a week. Lets get something straight,they are taking just farm laborer jobs.Since when do Americans not want to lay a new driveway,put on a new roof,change the oil in a car,or run a forklift. You argument is totally bogus.I am not racist,nor am I against immigration.We need it and its part of what our country is all about. But you need to be brought down to reality. I haul everything from food,multi million dollar medical loads to airplane parts.Nearly every warehouse I dock at I come acorss a hispanic worker who cant even count to 3 in english. Does anyone remember when the feds busted Swift Meats a few months back? I do,I haul lots of loads for Smith Meats.I saw first hane the dozens upon dozens of illegals working there.What everyone seems to forget,or ignore,is the massive line of AMERICANS who lined up to fill those new job openings.Of course you didnt see it on the nightly news.But you saw it on the internet and heard about it on talk radio.Back in the 80's meat packing plants paid around $18 an hour.Today its what $9 an hour or so.Why is that? Its obvious,illegal labor is willing to work for it. Or ask the several dozen African American workers who were told to go home in Mississippi after Katrina hit the gulf coast.This of course was only reported on Fox News.In case you didnt hear about it heres a little run down. Over 3 dozen African Americans from Alabama were hired by a temp agency to go help with the clean up.These people were paid only $10 an hour.These folks were all hurricane victims themselves.Most lost their homes and jobs and were using this job as a way to get back on their feet.Well about 2 weeks later they were told to go home,they were no longer need because " the Mexicans are here!" The woman who owns the temp agency said these guys left with tears in their eyes.Someone please justify this? This isnt a race issue.Its a culture and security issue.Admit it or not illegal aliens cost us Americans billions of dollars a year. They refuse to assimilate to our culture,instead they try forcing their culture down our throats.If they dont get their way some pro illegal group files a lawsuit. I honestly do not believe the average American realizes the size of this problem. I am not suggesting we deport all the illegals that our here now.I honestly feel that is a near impossible task,notice I said "NEAR" impossible. If this keeps up at this rate America is destined to become a third world nation in 20-30 years.Just take a ride along I10 through El Paso TX and notice all the shanties and little mud huts that dot the hills.Its disgusting. We are playing on a very very slippery slope with very dangerous and unintended consequences on the horizen. Again this is not a race issue.I have no problems with any race,but I have a problem with people breaking our laws,destroying our quality of life and stealing jobs from honest Americans.Again please do not try and throw that "NO AMERICANS WILL TAKE THE JOB" crap at me.Its partly corporate greed,and a sell out govt behind this whole issue!

Problem solved, annex mexico and restructure the entire economy. Eliminate the craptacular housing and most of the laws. They have the jobs there. How much of our stuff is manufactured in mexico? Biggest reason not to is so that The American people can continue to be lead on a direct path into slavery. The leaders of this charge are our Illegal Immigrants that accept these low paying jobs and terrible conditions to live in. Anyone that can provide proof otherwise speak up. I have seen it first hand. And I have not insulted anyone but if you feel so strongly why not start putting your money where you mouth is instead of telling us we are all wrong and calling us racist for offering a logical sollution. You pay for them to be here out of you pocket. Not out of taxes but out of the money you make each year. Give up 80% of the income. Get rid of youre BMW, $500,000.00 home and subscription to playboy, than come talk to me. Oh and you cant qoute from the bible without the old testament.

What this last gentleman said is true. They have destroyed the environment...I grew up in Douglas, Arizona. My house is about 700 yards from the border. I grew UP watching these people run loose out there. Yet, they never bothered me, my family, or my neighbors. They never stole from us, the never damaged any of our property. So, in that respect I cant say anything negative. As I've said before, I am Hispanic. I have DOZENS of people in my family that came here illegally. They're all here to work. Not sell drugs, steal cars, break into homes, etc... However I know there are Thousands that do. Nobody can deny that. This topic just has me so exhausted and upset, that I've chosen to bow out of the discussion for awhile. Last night, i was surfing the net and came across a website that shows videos. Not normal videos...Videos of Torture, Execution, and other violent acts. I saw one that piqued my interest, so I watched. I wish I hadn't. It was a video of gentleman taken hostage by insurgents. He was pleading to our government BEGGING them for help. But, alas....We dont negotiate with terrorists. This man was promptly shoved to the floor while his head was hacked off with a knife. I couldn't STAND to watch it...but I couldn't turn away...We are putting people into these situations on a daily basis...Yet, so many people are more concerned about money than they are about human lives... It sickens me. These Immigrants may be here illegally, but they're still human beings. REGARDLESS of their status, they need to be treated as such. LEGAL Americans are getting butchered like livestock because our government doesnt give a s**t. When the world started worrying more about money than the people in it, we lost. I'm not a religious person by any means. I Detest religion and everything it stands for...but I now firmly believe...The End Is Near

First my credentials; I live in Cochise County, Arizona approximately 4 miles from the boarder with the Republic of Mexico. I am retired military and have served in Vietnam, Europe, Asia, and Africa. I am a registered independent, I vote the issues not the party. During the over 20 years I have lived here I have seen the environmental destruction caused by the invasion of illegal aliens from the south. To say this ever increasing stampede of illegal's has altered the way of life for boarder residents is putting it mildly. 20 years ago my son and I could go hiking or bike riding in the Huachuca Mountains and take a tent and sleeping bags and camp almost anywhere in the mountains. That is not true today. Besides the danger of assault and robbery there is the ever present danger of disease due to fecal contamination and rotting garbage left by the invading hordes from the south. I had to laugh at the naivety of the comments by Billy from Santa Ana. I have personally witnessed bands of men in dark clothing carrying backpacks along mountain trails. On one very freighting encounter I had my grandchildren with me when we had to hide off the trail when 16 men in black passed us by. The lead man and the end man were both carrying AK47s. Perhaps Billy is right, maybe they were just making a delivery of some secret taco sauce to Taco Bell but I don't really think so. Some facts that have not been mentioned here are remittances and the pending Totalization Agreement with the Republic of Mexico. For those who do not know what they are, remittances are money earned in the US that leaves the US heading to foreign countries. This money is earned by citizens and legal and illegal aliens. Last year, by Mexican government figures, $14 BILLION was sent to Mexico. Next to oil exports this is Mexico's second largest source of hard currency. Most economists will tell you that every dollar is usually turned over five times in a normal economy. That means that the $14,000,000,000 equates to $70,000,000,000 in spend able, i.e. taxable, dollars. At even the unrealistically low tax rate of 5% that is $3,500,000,000 in lost tax revenue. That would build a lot of schools, roads, and maybe even go a ways toward balancing the budget. The Totalization Agreement with the Republic of Mexico is far more frightening than remittances. The agreement, which the good people in DC tried desperately to hide from the American people, will pay Social Security benefits to illegal aliens in the states and/or after they return to Mexico. The fact that most illegal aliens use fake social security cards to get work is an undeniable fact. So here is the question, whose social security money will be heading south? This is so important that you should share this with all your friends and urge them to write to their congressional delegates and post it on as many forums and chat room as they can. So, what should we do about Mexico's problem? First, make no mistake, it is a Mexican problem that they have successfully exported to the US. We need to force Mexico to change its corrupt repressive government. How, by making it more uncomfortable for a Mexican to come US than it would be for them to stay home and work for change. One way to do this is to do as Patrick from Gilbert suggested, go after employers. If you leave scrap food on your floor you can't blame the cockroach for coming to eat it and you can't blame the individual illegal alien when the scrap wages they earn in the US are far greater than they could ever hope to earn in Mexico. Second, we need a Constitutional Amendment that clearly says the citizenship status of a child shall be that of its birth mother. If a claim for citizenship of a child is made by any other person that person must provide irrefutable proof through DNA testing, at their own expense, that they are the parent of the child. In Arizona we call these poor children anchor babies' because they are used to try and drag the family into the states. I have had people tell me this is unfair to the child. My answer is this, if someone steals your car and is driving their family around in it when the police catch them should they get to keep the car because it is unfair to make their children walk? I would like to write more but my dogs are barking and my sensor lights just came on so I have to go and make sure the friendly job seekers from the south don't cut my fences and *&*& in my yard.

I've been sitting idly by watching people insult each other for WAY too long. Most of you seem to have lost sight of the topic. Most of you (while spitting out VERY poor grammar) feel more of a need to insult others... If you're going to insult someone, don't spell everything you say wrong...not only does it make you look ignorant, it makes you look incredibly stupid. This debate has NOTHING to do with drugs, their influx, or their origin. But, since we're on the topic, lets get the facts straight. Cocaine is the major export of Colombia and Peru. NOT Mexico. It comes THROUGH Mexico...not FROM Mexico. It is NOT only an American issue, either. Cocaine is readily available in all major countries' metropolitan areas... Cocaine is the LEAST of our worries, guys. Methamphetamine is a MUCH bigger problem in this country right now. Go ahead...Thank the Japanese for that one... Invented BY the Japanese, FOR the Japanese in 1893. It was first officially used in World War II by the Germans. (I dont see Mexico anywhere in here, do you?) Will, From Idaho. You are simply proving that "Bush Backers" are as smart as the man himself. Any smart person could see right through 9/11 as a government conspiracy...but i'll let that start it's OWN arguement... Apparently, everybody sickens Will. You show me one shred of evidence that "immigrants are a drain on this economy" and I'll show you a 7 legged horse. America didn't NEED an official language. That law was passed to pacify and satisfy ALL of you republicans who were whining, bitching, and moaning because you didn't know whether or not those "mexicans" were talking about you or not. Things aren't going to change because that stupid law was passed. If anything, they'll just use it to piss you off even more. I'm Hispanic. I was raised speaking both English AND Spanish. Thanks to your "Official Language Law", I now have the option of working as an Interpreter....Seeing as how now they'll be required in more places. I look at the majority of this thread and almost fall over with laughter. You call us "bleeding hearts"... The United States Of America was FOUNDED on the premise of the so-called "Bleeding Heart". I hate to have to quote this AGAIN, but, here goes...It's right off of our GOOD OL STATUE OF LIBERTY! "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door." Again, I say...Illegal immigration will NEVER go away. Not in OUR lifetime nor the generations that follows... There IS no solution... I also see that this debate has rekindled the fire under the a*s of the KKK. They're not ready for the challenge, I can assure you of that... Where and the hell do you get the notion that if Gore was elected, we'd be speaking Arabic???? I hardly ever ask this, but...Are you retarded? I can assure you that had Gore been elected, we wouldn't have lost so many friends and family to this "War". This REPUBLICAN war that has prompted more countries to enter the "Nuclear Arms Race". Have you ever seen so many countries as defiant as you see them now? Honestly? This country needs to focus LESS on this immigration thing and MORE on the war it started...

Will, you owe an apology to everybody who reads this thread I don't care If you'er a republican but you don't have to bad mouth people who are democrats or insult us!, I know in your eyes you have done nothing wrong. I, have had it with the insults from the bush fans! we are all tired of being treated like nothing!, cause we are democrats!. Again, this thread is about illegal immigrants please find the right report for democrats & republicans!, not this thread you own an apology though we all know one will not be coming from you!. I, do not support illegal immigrants in anyway I oppose them! & nobody will make me support illegal immigrants!.

Will, this thread has nothing to do with democrats or republicans this has to do with illegal immgrants, I never said I support illegial immigrants. If, you have to post something about the democrats or republicans use the bush reports & do not bring up anything about democrats, or republicans in this thread. You, need to go to a thread that supports democrats or republicans not this thread!, I oppose illegal immigrant & noone is going to tell me to support it!.

Well Charlie, Get full from your Kool-Aid? Remember, that crap rots your intelligence... Oh, too late. Am I a Bush backer? You darn right. Why? Since 9/11, had it been Gore in office, I would be replying to your ilk in ARABIC!! And it is true you bleeding heart liberals love to give everything away. Remember it was a democrat who started the welfare program! Now you want to give he country away? You sicken me!

Congrats. Shall you vote on an immagration bill before you voted against it too? Listen, The whole immagration thing is a drain on the economy and you all KNOW IT! You just want to claim it to be a good thing to get the votes. Am I a Bush backer? You d**n right I am. Why? Because I can rebutt these comments from people like you in English. If it were Gore or Kerry in office, I would have to rebutt in Spanish or worse yet, arabic! Get out of the Kool-Aod jar and look around. The world is a mess and you want to condone illeagal actions. You sicken me!

Charles, Why do you insist on coming here and posting the same old drivel about Bush fans? Why did you even post a response this last time? I did not seen anyone trying to blame something on the Democraps. In fact, Will said "California Liberals". Why do you even bother? Will, Yes "illegal" still means "illegal", and I would just assume see all illegal immigrants (no matter what their nationality) be sent packing right back to their homeland. However, as stated before, simply rounding them up and sending them back is not the solution to the problem. Governments MUST start penalizing the business owners who regularly and knowingly hire "illegals". And once again, this report is not about illegal immigrants. It's about the unethical and inhumane treatment of migrant workers by Arizona farm families and business owners. And just because they are migrant workers does not automatically make them illegals. There are thousands of migrant workers in the US who have come here legally, work for a wage, and send the money back home.

Bush, fans will always blame democrats for everything just ignore the bush fans they are here just to get us upsest & angry which Is their goal, why do you think we all voted for democrats!. Bush, fans should not be allowed to post on here If all they are going to do, Is treat people badly that Is why we voted them out of congress!.

An illeagal tresspasser cried over mistreatment and could not even post it thelselves? A translator had to be called in? Look. You came here by breaking the law. Now you want the law to work in your favor? Go to California. Better yet, go back home! The liberals California love to give away money and blame Bush for it. Remember when the term "illeagal" meant a bad thing? I do.

I have read through many of the posts and am shaking my head. The whole point of the post is not blame the Mexicans or any other immigrants, it is, in my opinion, to complain about ILLEGAL immigrants. As long as illegals can get away with it, they will. I think it is hog wash to say that legal Americans will not work hard or pick fruit for a living. I know many people who have worked in the orchards so that they don't have to live off of welfare. I have witnessed first hand a Mexican walk into a public aide office and walk out with food stamps, only to be told that my family did not qualify because I was married and had a job working for minimum wage. We were "over income" for a family of four. And before someone asks why my husband didn't get a job- he had one and was laid off because his job was outsourced. But I was told if I was a single mother, I would qualify. It just burns my butt that a tax paying citizen has less support and rights than someone who does not pay taxes or contribute to the economy. If immigrants want to live here, they should live by our laws and make our country better not be a drain on society. I know there are legal citizens that are a drain and that should be addressed as well. If the crooked politicians and big business organizations were penalized things may change. We as Americans should call their bluff and make our ELECTED officials do what is morally right. That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

To Joe. People that cross the boarder do not carry drugs by foot. They carry as much water and food as they can, and usually they run out. Knowing this, it is not possible for them to smuggle drugs over the boarder. This is a common misconception. Secondly, they are poor, and are coming for work. These people are not involved in drug cartels. The people who are involved are using cars, boats, tunnels, and airplanes to cross the boarder. If you were a drug dealer, you would not entrust $5,000 worth of drugs to a starving Latino crossing the boarder, this is just business sense. If there was not a demand by Americans for drugs there would be no drug smuggling, we can only blame ourselves for the problem, and blaming something that has nothing to do with the drug problem only deflects attention, and does not help to solve it. Yes they are coming here from a third world country because things are better here, but wouldnt you if you were born there? Wouldn't anyone with a starving family and no work cross a boarder to find work to support your family? This is a basic human need, so shame on you if you blame them for trying to survive. Fly to Mexico and see what they are escaping. Or better yet, go by foot and cross 50 miles of barren wasteland to get the full experience. If you want someone to blame, blame the large corporations that monopolize industries. Blame Enron for bankrupting thousands of working class people. Blame the companies that set the wages. Blame Arco for having record-breaking profits and claming that there is an oil crisis and jacking the prices up at the pump. Blame the city officials that renovate city hall before they fix your streets. Blame farmers that get government grants for not growing plants. Blame the education system that teaches our children what to think rather than how to think. And blame the pharmaceutical companies that force elderly people into poverty for their expensive medications they need to live. Blame people who tell you who to blame. Wake up and see the people at the top pulling the strings, and maybe we can find a solution.

FIRST OF ALL FOR YOUR INFORMATION MR.JOE COCAINE DONT COME FROM MEXICO, SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE AND SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. SECOND, MOST OF YALL ARE CALLING THIS PEOPLE MEXICANS, MEXICANS, FOR YALL INFORMATION THEY ARE NOT ONLY MEXICANS THAT COME HERE. THEY ARE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, SO ITS BEST THAT YOU GUYS DONT REFER TO THEM AS MEXICANS. THEY ARE EITHER HISPANICS OR LATINOS. FOR THOSE THAT ARE AGAINST ILLEGALS ANSWER ME THIS ONE QUESTION WHAT DO U HAVE AGAINST ILLEGAL LATINOS? CHECK IT OUT MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE WEEB COMING FROM MEXICO, BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS HEARING ABOUT WHITES DYING FROM DRUG OVERDOSES, AND ALWAYS BUYING DRUGS. WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO SAY KNOW THAT LATINOS OR ILLEGALS MAKE YOU GUYS DO IT. THAT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. AND MAYBE YOU ARE ASKING WHY IS IT THAT THEY SELL THAT STUFF MAYBE BECAUSE THEY GOT TIRED OF WORKING FOR YALL CHEAP WHITE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO PAY THEM RIGHT, SO THEY FIGURE HEY LETS MAKE OUR MONEY BACK FROM THEM BY SELLING THEM WEED AND COCAINE. YALL KNOW THAT WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID IS SO RIGHT. AND WITH THAT NOTE I AM OUT OF HERE, AND NEXT TIME THINK BEFORE YALL DECIDE TO BAD MOUTH A LATINO.

FIRST OF ALL FOR YOUR INFORMATION MR.JOE COCAINE DONT COME FROM MEXICO, SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE AND SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. SECOND, MOST OF YALL ARE CALLING THIS PEOPLE MEXICANS, MEXICANS, FOR YALL INFORMATION THEY ARE NOT ONLY MEXICANS THAT COME HERE. THEY ARE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, SO ITS BEST THAT YOU GUYS DONT REFER TO THEM AS MEXICANS. THEY ARE EITHER HISPANICS OR LATINOS. FOR THOSE THAT ARE AGAINST ILLEGALS ANSWER ME THIS ONE QUESTION WHAT DO U HAVE AGAINST ILLEGAL LATINOS? CHECK IT OUT MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE WEEB COMING FROM MEXICO, BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS HEARING ABOUT WHITES DYING FROM DRUG OVERDOSES, AND ALWAYS BUYING DRUGS. WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO SAY KNOW THAT LATINOS OR ILLEGALS MAKE YOU GUYS DO IT. THAT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. AND MAYBE YOU ARE ASKING WHY IS IT THAT THEY SELL THAT STUFF MAYBE BECAUSE THEY GOT TIRED OF WORKING FOR YALL CHEAP WHITE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO PAY THEM RIGHT, SO THEY FIGURE HEY LETS MAKE OUR MONEY BACK FROM THEM BY SELLING THEM WEED AND COCAINE. YALL KNOW THAT WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID IS SO RIGHT. AND WITH THAT NOTE I AM OUT OF HERE, AND NEXT TIME THINK BEFORE YALL DECIDE TO BAD MOUTH A LATINO.

FIRST OF ALL FOR YOUR INFORMATION MR.JOE COCAINE DONT COME FROM MEXICO, SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE AND SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. SECOND, MOST OF YALL ARE CALLING THIS PEOPLE MEXICANS, MEXICANS, FOR YALL INFORMATION THEY ARE NOT ONLY MEXICANS THAT COME HERE. THEY ARE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, SO ITS BEST THAT YOU GUYS DONT REFER TO THEM AS MEXICANS. THEY ARE EITHER HISPANICS OR LATINOS. FOR THOSE THAT ARE AGAINST ILLEGALS ANSWER ME THIS ONE QUESTION WHAT DO U HAVE AGAINST ILLEGAL LATINOS? CHECK IT OUT MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE WEEB COMING FROM MEXICO, BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS HEARING ABOUT WHITES DYING FROM DRUG OVERDOSES, AND ALWAYS BUYING DRUGS. WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO SAY KNOW THAT LATINOS OR ILLEGALS MAKE YOU GUYS DO IT. THAT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. AND MAYBE YOU ARE ASKING WHY IS IT THAT THEY SELL THAT STUFF MAYBE BECAUSE THEY GOT TIRED OF WORKING FOR YALL CHEAP WHITE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO PAY THEM RIGHT, SO THEY FIGURE HEY LETS MAKE OUR MONEY BACK FROM THEM BY SELLING THEM WEED AND COCAINE. YALL KNOW THAT WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID IS SO RIGHT. AND WITH THAT NOTE I AM OUT OF HERE, AND NEXT TIME THINK BEFORE YALL DECIDE TO BAD MOUTH A LATINO.

FIRST OF ALL FOR YOUR INFORMATION MR.JOE COCAINE DONT COME FROM MEXICO, SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE AND SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. SECOND, MOST OF YALL ARE CALLING THIS PEOPLE MEXICANS, MEXICANS, FOR YALL INFORMATION THEY ARE NOT ONLY MEXICANS THAT COME HERE. THEY ARE PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, SO ITS BEST THAT YOU GUYS DONT REFER TO THEM AS MEXICANS. THEY ARE EITHER HISPANICS OR LATINOS. FOR THOSE THAT ARE AGAINST ILLEGALS ANSWER ME THIS ONE QUESTION WHAT DO U HAVE AGAINST ILLEGAL LATINOS? CHECK IT OUT MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE WEEB COMING FROM MEXICO, BUT YOU ARE ALWAYS HEARING ABOUT WHITES DYING FROM DRUG OVERDOSES, AND ALWAYS BUYING DRUGS. WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO SAY KNOW THAT LATINOS OR ILLEGALS MAKE YOU GUYS DO IT. THAT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. AND MAYBE YOU ARE ASKING WHY IS IT THAT THEY SELL THAT STUFF MAYBE BECAUSE THEY GOT TIRED OF WORKING FOR YALL CHEAP WHITE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT TO PAY THEM RIGHT, SO THEY FIGURE HEY LETS MAKE OUR MONEY BACK FROM THEM BY SELLING THEM WEED AND COCAINE. YALL KNOW THAT WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID IS SO RIGHT. AND WITH THAT NOTE I AM OUT OF HERE, AND NEXT TIME THINK BEFORE YALL DECIDE TO BAD MOUTH A LATINO.

As I read the all the comments made on rip-off report concerning this matter, I think about all the illegal aliens who are on welfare and buying 500,000.00 plus homes here in Santa Maria, Ca (Santa Barbara County). A couple of pictures of people living in trees in Arizona, (where it hardly rains) doesn't sway me. THEY ARE FROM A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. Illegal aliens are provided with Free health care, driver lic., and guaranteed citizenship for their children. I dont Americans are mistreating them whatsoever! They are treated like kings and queens, and all they do is s**t on us. Complaining of this and that. Where do you think the majority of marijuana and cocaine come from... you got it.. Mexico!

Chris, I'm sorry, but you lost me there. You start by saying you don't agree with me, but then go on to say exactly the same thing I did originally. For example, you said: "If we are going to solve this problem we need punish those that employ, house or in any way aid illegals. We should fine and/or imprison those who are convicted of aiding illegal's!" And I had said this: "I can only see one way to significantly decrease the number of illegal immigrants to the US: law enforcement MUST start pursuing and prosecuting any business owner who makes it a practice to employ illegal immigrants." And this: "Our borders need protecting, there is no doubt about that. But like I said, simply building a wall and sending out military patrols is not the answer. State governments must start levying fines to those businesses who knowingly employ illegal immigrants." Hmm, those statements seem awfully similar to me. So, just what exactly is it that you don't agree with? I never said the illegals were "forced" to come here. I said they come here because business owners offer them a reason: employment, no questions asked (or green card needed). Finally, let me state again for the record that I in NO WAY support illegal immigration, or any policies or laws that grant protection or immunity to illegals. Patrick in Mesa (formerly Gilbert)

Patrick, I have to say that I don't agree with you. You're right; the article is trying to point out the deplorable conditions that this illegal's are living in. And yes, I totally agree with you that the conditions these people are living in are terrible. But, if you review theses picture, none of these people are being forced to live like that. I didn't see chains on any of them, nor did I see someone holding a gun over there head. These people are in this situation because they have made a conscious choice to break the law and entered into this country illegally. If we are going to solve this problem we need punish those that employ, house or in any way aid illegals. We should fine and/or imprison those who are convicted of aiding illegal's! Please people; don't respond that I'm a racist that just isn't the case. I'm a half Spanish, half causation l*****n. This isn't about being a racist. It's about breaking the law. Illegal immigration isn't a victimless crime. Look how many people have been victim of identify theft only to find that there SS# and identifying information has been used so that some illegal can gain employment. The recent case of Swift Meat company is a great example of this. Those aren't field workers, doing jobs that American's won't do. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Swift and other supports of illegal immigration wanted to try to block the company raids. Illegal Allen means that they do not belong here and are committing a crime. It's very simple. Come here legally or don't come at all. And those that help and employee illegal's should be punished severely.

Patrick, I have to say that I don't agree with you. You're right; the article is trying to point out the deplorable conditions that this illegal's are living in. And yes, I totally agree with you that the conditions these people are living in are terrible. But, if you review theses picture, none of these people are being forced to live like that. I didn't see chains on any of them, nor did I see someone holding a gun over there head. These people are in this situation because they have made a conscious choice to break the law and entered into this country illegally. If we are going to solve this problem we need punish those that employ, house or in any way aid illegals. We should fine and/or imprison those who are convicted of aiding illegal's! Please people; don't respond that I'm a racist that just isn't the case. I'm a half Spanish, half causation l*****n. This isn't about being a racist. It's about breaking the law. Illegal immigration isn't a victimless crime. Look how many people have been victim of identify theft only to find that there SS# and identifying information has been used so that some illegal can gain employment. The recent case of Swift Meat company is a great example of this. Those aren't field workers, doing jobs that American's won't do. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Swift and other supports of illegal immigration wanted to try to block the company raids. Illegal Allen means that they do not belong here and are committing a crime. It's very simple. Come here legally or don't come at all. And those that help and employee illegal's should be punished severely.

Patrick, I have to say that I don't agree with you. You're right; the article is trying to point out the deplorable conditions that this illegal's are living in. And yes, I totally agree with you that the conditions these people are living in are terrible. But, if you review theses picture, none of these people are being forced to live like that. I didn't see chains on any of them, nor did I see someone holding a gun over there head. These people are in this situation because they have made a conscious choice to break the law and entered into this country illegally. If we are going to solve this problem we need punish those that employ, house or in any way aid illegals. We should fine and/or imprison those who are convicted of aiding illegal's! Please people; don't respond that I'm a racist that just isn't the case. I'm a half Spanish, half causation l*****n. This isn't about being a racist. It's about breaking the law. Illegal immigration isn't a victimless crime. Look how many people have been victim of identify theft only to find that there SS# and identifying information has been used so that some illegal can gain employment. The recent case of Swift Meat company is a great example of this. Those aren't field workers, doing jobs that American's won't do. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Swift and other supports of illegal immigration wanted to try to block the company raids. Illegal Allen means that they do not belong here and are committing a crime. It's very simple. Come here legally or don't come at all. And those that help and employee illegal's should be punished severely.

To add to my comments about your citizenship. I hope you are aware that your citizenship under new laws can be revoked. So beware if you aid and abet illegal aliens. You are breaking the law and as such you can be deported. You speak about hypocrisy but after taking an oath of allegiance to America, you bad mouth the Americans. You are the hypocrite.

We the immigrants that have come to this country legally, will always support immigrants, documented or not! Please don't speak on behalf of people who don't share those views. When you became a citizen you swore an oath of allegiance to America. So uphold the laws of the country. Undocumented aliens are ILEGALL.

Well I have news for the American people that are haters of undocumented immigrants. We the immigrants that have come to this country legally, will always support immigrants, documented or not! I am a U.S. citizen and no one can tell me to go back home, because I have right now! I will assist in every way I can to help my poeple. Most of the haters Americans are just Hypocrites. When it comes to God oh they are so Holy, Spritual and have Morals about abortion and gay marriage. But when it comes to Undocumented brothers and sisters, The war in Iraq, The issue going on in Darfur and Here in our own back yard: Navajos' desert cleanup no more than a mirage Through a federal program, decontamination seemed possible. But delays and disputes thwarted the effort. How can the haters American people be talking about undocumented immigrants taking away thier jobs, Land and making thier medical cost go up so much! Look at this Article on latimes 11/22/06 Look what the hater Americans and thier allies are doing to the Real Owners of this land! Our Dear Real Neighbors "the Native American Idian" They are poisoning them out, Since the Europeans came to OUR continent and have taken away thier land and used them. Since they did not get rid of all of them, now they are trying new Techniques to finish them off with our anyone realizing what exactly is going on! (( link removed by ROR)) What would GOD or Jesus Christ do if he was in this situation? think poeple think. 1. All men are created equally and have the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. 2. Read number 5 of our Consitition, If I recall, it says: Its guarantees the right or all people living in the United States. No only documented people. Martin Luther King, Made a change in the way African or dark skin people were treated in his times. If he could do it we can too! It will take lots of work but we can get the laws changed. Not because its a law makes it RIGHT or ok to do! Thats what so great about our country, that we the poeple can challenge it. We will never stop fighting for those with out a voice or say. We will always keep at there side no matter what the laws say. Another thing is that people are talking about the undocumented immigrants use up all our tax dollars. But if you look at a map of the most richest states in our union. You will notice that they are usually the one that has a larg number of undocumented immigrants migrating to them. Thats what makes them so rich and econmically wealty! Its their open mind and liberty. Look at all the other states that you rarely hear any econmical boom. Thats because they are so Republican and closed minded and ignorant. Thats why they are so poor. I know for a fact, if you take for example and The Govenor of Michigan would permit undocumented immigrants to move in and they would help them with work permits and offer them as much assistance as possible. I know Michihan would be known on the map of economic wealth. That state would be as wealty as Califonria, Florida etc... The other thing is they would have to welcome poeple of all race, religion, color, sex, sexual orientation, undocumented and documented. Its the diversity that makes a place's fortune. Look around, you can see it for yourself. Resident of Caifornia Posted 11/22/06 I am a U.S. citizen so you will just have to deal with me and my sibling for the rest of my life. Since I am making sure I educated my kids really good. To never forget were thier parents really came from.

Ralph, As you chose to revive the subject, I will quote from one of my previous posts in this thread: "After unilaterally annexing Texas in 1845, despite massive protests, the U.S. president sent troops 100 miles into what previously was Mexican land. When the Mexicans retaliated, the U.S. declared war on the pretext that Americans had been attacked on American soil. When it ended, the U.S. took 51% of Mexico's land, including California, where the discovery of gold had been kept secret from Mexican negotiators. At least 100,000 Mexicans and an additional 200,000 indigenous people lived on those lands." If you want to really support justice then perhaps we should simply return to Mexico, what was rightfully theirs. Land we took by force. No, Ralph, the illegal immigrant problem is not as new as you wish to believe. Illegal immigrants have been flowing into the U.S. since its inception as a country. The simple reality is that stopping the flow of illegal immigration, for the U.S. or any country is impossible. The flow may be staunched with walls and military forces patrolling them, however, over time this will not be a solution. The original tenet of this post was indeed to take the employers to task for not only providing the jobs (demand = supply), but also for the inhumane living conditions they force the illegals to live in under threat of deportation. That remains the solution - holding the employers responsible. If an illegal cannot find ANY job, he is much more likely to go home, and much less likely to return. As long as we allow these employers a free hand to continue to provide these jobs without fear of legal action or penalty the problem will never be resolved.

What would happen if Americans crossed the border illegally into Mexico? What would the Mexican government do if my family and I entered their nation illegally, had more babies, and demanded all of the benefits the illegal immigrants who cross our borders demand - benefits for which the Mexican citizens had worked ALL OF THEIR LIVES!? What would happen if we illegally entered Mexico and committed crimes and, along with other Americans, made THEIR prisons more crowded; and the expenses for OUR care and feeding sky-rocket? Would the Mexican government educate my children and pay for my health care? What would happen if 20+ million Americans entered Mexico illegally, incensed THEIR native-born citizens to join us in staging protests and riots, and FLEW THE AMERICAN FLAG ON MEXICAN SOIL? WHY is it OK for citizens of one country to illegally invade another country and cause havoc for the people who were BORN there...or who went through proper channels to EARN citizenship? WHY is America responsible for the welfare of another nation's citizens? It MAKES NO SENSE!! Oh, and by the way, we got along in this nation as far as our work force is concerned BEFORE the invasion of "the illegal immigrants who will work"; and we could still do the same. Their increasing the POPULATION here has created a lot of those jobs filled by illegal immigrants. If you don't agree, look at our over-crowded schools and the huge number of teachers who had to be taught Spanish, just for them. Can you see that happening in Mexico, if the "tables were turned"? Look around in doctor's offices, emergency rooms, hospital waiting areas...and notice the number of illegal immigrants. All of those illegal patients created the need for more people to give them their FREE care. If they went back home and stayed there, we wouldn't NEED all of those additional workers! WHY does the Mexican government NOT take care of their own? How and when did it become OUR responsibility? I think we ALL know the answers to the above questions!! I rest my case. So rebut away. The FACTS will still remain the same!

I've been reading this particular report for some time now, and have resisted posting my comments. Opting instead to let the insults fly from those mostly opposed to illegal immigration. Unfortunately, this report is not about illegal immigration, it's about the inhumane treatment of workers (who just happen to be mostly illegal immigrants) by wealthy farm and business owners. Read the title of this report again, it says: "Millionaire families and various business from around Arizona mistreat Immigrant workers ...Violating their civil & Human Rights. Queen Creek, Mesa Arizona" Now, before anyone gets any ideas, I am NOT a supporter of illegal immigration, nor do I condone allowing illegal border crossing. What I don't like is the fact that these business owners are using to their advantage the fact that their employees are illegals, and feel they can treat them any way they want under the threat of being reported to the Feds. I can only see one way to significantly decrease the number of illegal immigrants to the US: law enforcement MUST start pursuing and prosecuting and business owner who makes it a practice to employ illegal immigrants. Simply guarding the border is not enough. As others have said, they will just find another way to cross. Once you take away their reason for coming here (ability to find work), then the number of illegals will significantly decrease. A route that I used to take to work took me right past an intersection where every morning, illegals would congregate just waiting for some contractor to come by and load them up into their truck and take them off to the jobsite. I guarantee that all of these people are being paid under the table (they pay no income taxes) and the contractor pays them much less than they would pay a legal worker. And I found it appalling that this took place less than 1 block from the city hall and police station! Our borders need protecting, there is no doubt about that. But like I said, simply building a wall and sending out military patrols is not the answer. State governments must start levying fines to those businesses who knowingly employ illegal immigrants.

Aafes, Thank you.... Basically put, if you block off the borders, they'll find another way in. Charles, I dont think everybody is prejudice...I just think you're a moron. I AM not an illegal immigrant. If you could READ, you'd know that by now. I think we oughta put ignorant a*s people like you in little camps and make you work on farms for free...kinda like your forefathers did to black people... And to the person who earlier said that I said that we should deport black people....I dont know how that was misconstrued, but you're an idiot too... I never said that. Aafes, so far, has had the most valid and logical points. I commend you on your comments. Robert...Not sure whether you're republican or democrat...Don't really care... But good luck getting them to send out military forces to guard our borders. Would be a sound idea, say for the fact that they're strung so thin across the middle east fighting an invisible enemy. But good luck to your cause none the less... In closing, To all the people who think i'm prejudice, racist, or whatever...Walk a mile in my shoes. I hate nobody. I deal with racism on an almost daily basis on the recieving end. I have since I was a child. I dont think that most of you know what it feels like. In a sense, i feel a silent sort of gratification in knowing that this topic brings you so much grief. Racism will never die and I know it. But just like I said before...If you're constantly going to bash illegal immigrants, then know that they're not all Mexican. Stop the singling out of one race because of ignorance. That's all I ask.

I agree that military or paramilitary enforcement of the borders is likely the only viable answer if the U.S. decides to enforce the borders. My contention, rather, was that this would require a massive military force and an enormous expenditure of money in an already weak and deficit economy. Once the borders are completely fenced and patrolled the coastline becomes the entry point of choice. Now, we will need a massive Coast Guard/Naval force to patrol and enforce the coastline. Currently we utilize the largest concentration of Coast Guard/Naval/DEA forces combined with air support and technical surveillence in the area of the Florida coast. Despite the expenditures in personnel and dollars the Florida coastline continues to be one of the "leakiest" coastline areas in America. Deploying the military/naval personnel to enforce the borders and coastline would require a huge increase in our military force, a force that has difficulty meeting recruiting goals at the present time. Perhaps reinstituting the draft would suffice for those who support this type of border enforcement. While almost every country in the world does utilize their military to enforce their borders in almost ALL cases they are dealing with a fraction of the border/coastline area the U.S. possesses. The estimated number of illegal immigrants in Germany alone in 2003 was between 1/2 and 1.5 million. European countries, with military forces patrolling their borders, deal with enormous numbers of illegal immigrants growing yearly. The majority of these are brought in by organized criminal smuggling organizations.

I agree that military or paramilitary enforcement of the borders is likely the only viable answer if the U.S. decides to enforce the borders. My contention, rather, was that this would require a massive military force and an enormous expenditure of money in an already weak and deficit economy. Once the borders are completely fenced and patrolled the coastline becomes the entry point of choice. Now, we will need a massive Coast Guard/Naval force to patrol and enforce the coastline. Currently we utilize the largest concentration of Coast Guard/Naval/DEA forces combined with air support and technical surveillence in the area of the Florida coast. Despite the expenditures in personnel and dollars the Florida coastline continues to be one of the "leakiest" coastline areas in America. Deploying the military/naval personnel to enforce the borders and coastline would require a huge increase in our military force, a force that has difficulty meeting recruiting goals at the present time. Perhaps reinstituting the draft would suffice for those who support this type of border enforcement. While almost every country in the world does utilize their military to enforce their borders in almost ALL cases they are dealing with a fraction of the border/coastline area the U.S. possesses. The estimated number of illegal immigrants in Germany alone in 2003 was between 1/2 and 1.5 million. European countries, with military forces patrolling their borders, deal with enormous numbers of illegal immigrants growing yearly. The majority of these are brought in by organized criminal smuggling organizations.

I agree that military or paramilitary enforcement of the borders is likely the only viable answer if the U.S. decides to enforce the borders. My contention, rather, was that this would require a massive military force and an enormous expenditure of money in an already weak and deficit economy. Once the borders are completely fenced and patrolled the coastline becomes the entry point of choice. Now, we will need a massive Coast Guard/Naval force to patrol and enforce the coastline. Currently we utilize the largest concentration of Coast Guard/Naval/DEA forces combined with air support and technical surveillence in the area of the Florida coast. Despite the expenditures in personnel and dollars the Florida coastline continues to be one of the "leakiest" coastline areas in America. Deploying the military/naval personnel to enforce the borders and coastline would require a huge increase in our military force, a force that has difficulty meeting recruiting goals at the present time. Perhaps reinstituting the draft would suffice for those who support this type of border enforcement. While almost every country in the world does utilize their military to enforce their borders in almost ALL cases they are dealing with a fraction of the border/coastline area the U.S. possesses. The estimated number of illegal immigrants in Germany alone in 2003 was between 1/2 and 1.5 million. European countries, with military forces patrolling their borders, deal with enormous numbers of illegal immigrants growing yearly. The majority of these are brought in by organized criminal smuggling organizations.

I agree that military or paramilitary enforcement of the borders is likely the only viable answer if the U.S. decides to enforce the borders. My contention, rather, was that this would require a massive military force and an enormous expenditure of money in an already weak and deficit economy. Once the borders are completely fenced and patrolled the coastline becomes the entry point of choice. Now, we will need a massive Coast Guard/Naval force to patrol and enforce the coastline. Currently we utilize the largest concentration of Coast Guard/Naval/DEA forces combined with air support and technical surveillence in the area of the Florida coast. Despite the expenditures in personnel and dollars the Florida coastline continues to be one of the "leakiest" coastline areas in America. Deploying the military/naval personnel to enforce the borders and coastline would require a huge increase in our military force, a force that has difficulty meeting recruiting goals at the present time. Perhaps reinstituting the draft would suffice for those who support this type of border enforcement. While almost every country in the world does utilize their military to enforce their borders in almost ALL cases they are dealing with a fraction of the border/coastline area the U.S. possesses. The estimated number of illegal immigrants in Germany alone in 2003 was between 1/2 and 1.5 million. European countries, with military forces patrolling their borders, deal with enormous numbers of illegal immigrants growing yearly. The majority of these are brought in by organized criminal smuggling organizations.

Every other country on this planet enforces their immigration laws. Does that make them isolationist? NO! It means they are enforcing their laws. BTW...they use their military to enforce their immigration laws. Their militaries patrol their borders. You know it's true AAFES. Even Germany has border patrols. During the '80's, it included tanks. Somehow, we have found the military should not be used to protect our borders. This is insane. The easiest way to defend the country, is with the military on the borders.

Every other country on this planet enforces their immigration laws. Does that make them isolationist? NO! It means they are enforcing their laws. BTW...they use their military to enforce their immigration laws. Their militaries patrol their borders. You know it's true AAFES. Even Germany has border patrols. During the '80's, it included tanks. Somehow, we have found the military should not be used to protect our borders. This is insane. The easiest way to defend the country, is with the military on the borders.

Every other country on this planet enforces their immigration laws. Does that make them isolationist? NO! It means they are enforcing their laws. BTW...they use their military to enforce their immigration laws. Their militaries patrol their borders. You know it's true AAFES. Even Germany has border patrols. During the '80's, it included tanks. Somehow, we have found the military should not be used to protect our borders. This is insane. The easiest way to defend the country, is with the military on the borders.

Cory has a point. Stopping illegal immigration is tantamount to swimming against the stream. It could be done, however, our nation would become isolationist. There was a period in our history in which popular belief was that isolationism was an acceptable practice. I could go into the affects of this policy on our nation during this time period, but suffice it to say that it is accepted as fact that American isolationism was a contributing factor to World War II. With an enormous deficit it is not feasible economically to track, locate and remove all illegals living in the U.S. While the majority of the flow is from the southern border the act of building a "wall" and actively enforcing this border is folly. We have 1952 miles of southern border, our norther border is over 4000 miles long. Okay, let us build a 50 foot high wall, complete with the latest security technology, and add 500 yards of mine fields inside the wall. Actively patrol the wall, have guard towers with automatic weapons... we'll keep everyone out!!! Then perhaps in several years the world will hear a speech by a foreign leader... "Mr. President, tear down this wall!" Even if we should wall the border effectively, there will then be thousands of miles of coastland to defend. Every cargo container in every port would have to be checked. The coast guard would have to become a massive force, stopping every boat on the water to check for illegals.

Cory, thinks everyone is prejudice haha why should we except these ILLEGAL immigrants! we don't care what pisses you off cory!, you must be one of those ILLEGAL immigrants. Quit, judging everyone then mabye people will quit judgeing you!. Judge not least not be judge!.

What I said was, "If you dont like the fact that they're speaking spanish then A) IGNORE THEM! or B) LEARN SPANISH! Freedom of speech isn't limited to English... I've said time and time again that we ALL know that illegal immigration is here and never going to go away. Its reality...live with it. If you cant live with it, throw out your TVs, Lock your doors, and never leave your house. I ALSO believed that the waving of the Mexican flags during the protests was pretty ignorant on their parts, by the way... I kinda took a step back and thought to myself what most of you probably thought. Either way they're here to stay... HAVE A NICE DAY!

Cory, if I am 'selectively prejudice', then I would have to say you are 'selectively intelligent'----possibly intelligent about some things but not this. I didn't realize it made someone prejudice to be upset that people are getting away with breaking the laws...thanks for correcting me. How can you possibly make a comment stating 'then learn the language' when that was the EXACT same thing I said, then say I am prejudice? I will be sure to tell my Mexican friends they should stop being friends with me since all knowing Cory from Arizona says Im prejudice. And you haven't heard any of them complaining about us not learning Spanish because THEY HAVE NO PLACE TO!! And they know it!! They don't need to complain because their language is all over the place when it shouldn't be. God forbid anyone except any immigrant of ANY nationality to assimilate. I better tell my grandmother who immigrated here from HOLOCAUST Germany that she shouldn't have wasted all her time (8 years) becoming legal. That she could have mooched off the system for free all the years she has been here!! Thank you so much for putting me in my place Cory! Robert, I have been waiting for you to join in!! :)

Lets, face it we will always have illegal immigrants & mexians coming into our great country but why can't they do it the right way!, legal & when they do come in our country they would have to behave themselves & not start their s**t!. These immigrants mexians cannot come into this country & start bullying us why are mexians so mean & evil!, they are not coming into this country causing road rage! like they have done in my town! these immigrants will not come into our great country causing trouble!, they will behave like the rest of us have to!. They, think they are immigrants they can come into this country & act anyway they have to!, & mistreat us white people!.

If WE don't like it, WE should learn THEIR language? Dumb! How about...if THEY don't like it, THEY should learn OUR language. Amazing how that works for EVERY other immigrant who comes here LEGALLY. Only the ILLEGAL ones think they shouldn't have to do anything to assimilate. The Mexican flags at the protests told the tale.

Not ONLY is it disrespectful, it just pisses me off... Every single time somebody sees someone they believe to be "illegal", they're "mexican". (Charles, i wish you all the luck on your 4th grade spelling.) Every time i come back in here to read whats been posted, it just gets worse. MEXICANS ARE NOT THE ONLY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY!! Cuban, Chilean, Puruvian, Salvadorian, Ecuadorian, Brazilian, Columbian, the list goes on and friggin on.... Just because they came up THROUGH Mexico and happen to speak spanish, DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE MEXICAN!!! It is not written anywhere that i MUST SPEAK ENGLISH! I was born of a Mexican father and a Caucasian Mother... I speak what I WANT to speak. If you dont like what someone is saying, dont listen to them, or LEARN THE GODDAMN LANGUAGE! I have NEVER heard any of them complain because someone didnt understand them. To them, I happen to think it's quite funny. They get a kick out of all of you hateful people. They KNOW they're not gonna be sent home. Jessica, you make it sound like these people get out of bed in the morning with hate in their hearts, just WISHING they could cause an accident... I mean, was it deemed an "accident" or a Malicious attempt by a "non-citizen" at taking someones life? Was he arrested for attempted murder? You make it seem like he had you in his friggin sights! THATS WHY THEY'RE CALLED ACCIDENTS! I dont think you're racist, i just think you're "selectively prejudice". I think it makes alot of you mad because that last gentleman made ALOT of sense. He disproved almost every thing you tried to blow out of proportion. I know that'd make me mad... haha Honestly though, I think i'm gonna take a step back from this arguement because it seems to me, that everytime someone makes a VERY good point, some ignorant a** decides to do research via BULL$SH*T.COM That being said, until you can all look at this from a rational, non-biased, and most of all, HUMANE point of view, this thread is crap.

Well said Charles. We have found common ground. Keep up the good work. I knew one day you'd come around. Bravo Lingus.

Why, should the united states give special treatment to illegal mexians who enter this country illegally!, why should these illegal immigrents get college tution, social security, welfare, unemployment!, they are taken away from us! united states citizens!. Why, should we give special treatment to these law breakers would their country give us special treatment if we crossed their country line!, no they would not!. Is it the united states fault their country is poor so they need to quit blaming us until the government quits giving illegal aliens all our benefits!, social security college tution grants, welfare, unemployment! we will never shut up!. This, has become a big problem! & look @ those horried mexians beating up that fox news reporter for exposing thier mortage scam & threatening people!,

One of the requirements for US Citizenship, is a working knowledge of the English Language. That's right, the citizenship test is in English, and being able to speak, understand, read, and write in English is part of the examination. While there is no actual Law in place that states English is the "Official" language, the reality of it is that it is. This is what is known as Common Knowledge, and most of our laws are based on this tenet. English Common Law was based on what the average person considered reasonable, and it is reasonable to expect incoming immigrants learn the language. Instead, I get to "press 1 for English" whenever I call some company. How about "if you don't understand what I am saying, go learn the language".

Jessica, first, it is my hope you will never "shut up" about something you believe in. Freedom of speech is one of the greatest rights we have in our country. I hope you will always exercise it. As for having "no clue" - if you read my earlier posts in this thread you would see I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN. I live in Europe working for the U.S. Government in support of the U.S. Military. To further prove to you my first hand knowledge of this situation, I was raised in Texas and Arizona, as a matter of course I own a home in Yuma, about a close to the border as one can get. As a teenager I worked summers on some of these farms alongside these hard working men, women and children and witnessed first hand their living conditions. Most illegals would LOVE to become a U.S. citizen. Once in the country they are often subjected to virtual bondage, living under threats of INS being notified of there location and status - threats from the very employers that they work for. This keeps many from seeking out the opportunity to apply for citizenship. You cite statistical facts about this group having the highest rate of giving birth in hospitals without insurance and the highest rates of uninsured auto accidents in California. I assure you, if I chose to search, I could find statistical surveys that support any contention. I realize your statement regarding the auto accident is partially fueled by what happened to your fiance - justifiably. As for your insurance rates rising, that would happen in almost every case of an accident. Most insurers simply classify that you have had an "accident" on your policy, not who was at fault. Unless your fiance was exceeding the speed limit or following too closely the rates should not "go through the roof". As Ed posted previously, while these migrant workers are here "illegally" the practice is likely to continue until the borders are properly closed and guarded. Currently there are several hundred miles of border that are NOT fenced or are simply fenced with three strand barbed wire fences seen throughout the southwest. If the U.S. is serious about its illegal immigration problem the fenceline is the first problem that must be addressed. The entire border will have to be fenced, monitored and patrolled. This will be expensive and difficult but can be achieved. A congressman emphasized this recently and I paraphrase "Show me a 50 foot fence at the border and I'll show you 51 foot ladders on the Mexico side." The cost of removing the illegals currently estimated to be in the U.S has been calculated at $41 billion a year - this exceeds the entire budget of the Department of Homeland Security. A cost that will be paid either by reduction in other government services or a tax increase. While English is the primary language the fact remains that it is NOT the national language as you previously posted. Yes, everyone in the U.S. would be better suited to learn English - however, it may interest you to know that English is considered one of the more grammatically complex and difficult languages to learn as a second language. One of the keys to ease in learning a second language is reading proficiency in the native tongue. Many ESL students do not have this baseline education or proficiency to find English easy to learn. I respect your opinion on this matter, but respectfully disagree with many of your points. The original tenet of this post was to take the employers, who profit in the millions, to task for not only employing illegals but for the inhumane living conditions. This, I continue to believe, is the key to solving this problem.

Aefes, you really should have used your brain before commenting on my post. I really love it when people from other countries post on this topic like they have ANY CLUE what is going on here and how bad the situation is. It cracks me up, seriously! I suppose I need to remind you that English is this country's primary language. So many people are so fed up with the illegal immigration problem here that the time will come where we protest, too. That will involve refusing to learn the language. I really don't care what happens here, I will not be learning Spanish. I know plenty of people who will refuse to do the same. The fact is that these people are choosing to do these jobs for low pay. Go to school, learn some freakin english, and see what opportunities await you. They will never get anything better until they learn the language and learn how to communicate. It baffles me why learning the language is such a big deal for these people. And how are they contributing to the economy by causing the most car accidents in the State of California? Or how about being the highest group of people giving birth and being admitted to hospitals without insurance? I hate to break this to you, but those are both statistical facts. I don't expect you to know that, though, since you are in Europe after all. And I never said anything about the living conditions they live in. Do I think it is sad anyone has to live that way? Yes, I do. But on the other hand why should their employers be required to house them? My employer doesn't pay my rent! The bottom line here is these people need to apply for their citizenship!!! That is what most of us are having the issues with. If you are not paying taxes, how are you truly contributing to this government? So what if you are picking strawberries all day for some big fruit packing company. You aren't getting paid legally so obviously no taxes are coming out. In case you didn't know, that day all the Hispanics protested didn't do what they wanted it to....the economy did not suffer greatly from that stupid protest. Someone just please explain to me why these people feel they can just run over here and not become legal and then I will shut up.

Obviously, you have never checked Jessica. You stated that the last time you checked the National language was English. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. The United States of America has NO legislated national language. If you desire one, feel free to begin a grass roots campaign. It is likely to take at least a decade to become an amendment to the U.S. Constitution from beginning as a bill to ratification. Ultimately, you may find that you would be required to learn Spanish. Why? In the last decade the Hispanic population has experienced a 58% growth. An increase from 9% of the U.S. population to 13%. This, measured from 1990 to 2000. Almost a decade has passed since and the growth continues, and shall, exponentially. During the same time period non Hispanic whites decreased in the population by 7%. Hispanics are rapidly becoming the largest minority and if their population growth continues mushrooming they will eventually become the majority. Our country was founded on the precept of freedom and opened its arms in welcome to all that wanted to come to us. We live more comfortably than any nation in the world, we waste more food and resources in a day than many nations would require to feed and house their poor. We are not wanting. Be they legal or illegal, these immigrants provide a service. They are often doing jobs that Americans feel are beneath them. Once again, if there is no DEMAND the supply will disappear. Before you persecute these immigrants you should hold accountable the millionaire farmers, the nationally known poulty producers, and the construction contractors who are employing these hard working men and women at virtually slave wages. Despite EVERYTHING else, no one, immigrant or citizen, legal or illegal, should be expected to live and work in the inhumane conditions these people endure DAILY. All for the sake of padding the bank account of some of our fellow citizens. ""Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" - Emma Lazarus

I live in Cleveland Ohio in an area known as Hispanic Village. Okay area, racially mixed. We have mexicans as well as other illegals here. They're easy to point out, just yell 'he's got a Gun!!!' The one's that don't duck, don't speak English. The legal mexicans in my area hate the attitudes of the 'new illegals'. My neighbor Hector said: What's with this younger generation. They don't wanna become citizens because they don't want to pay taxes. hmmmm, maybe they're on to something. That got me to thinking. There are many corner store owners in and around the cleveland area. Most our Arab/indian owned and operated. They don't pay taxes either and are all to happy to tell us. Some are American citizens, but even the ones that aren't had no problems getting small business loans and tax abatements. The American dream is alive and well, but only applies to those not born here.

d**n right, Ashley... I am really so sick and tired of this being such an issue. It is ridiculous that MOST (keep in mind, I said MOST and NOT ALL )of the illegals think the laws shouldn't apply to them...they don't have to apply for citizenship, they rarely pay taxes, it is a STATISTICAL fact (at least in the state of California) that the rate of accidents caused by uninsured illegals is SKY HIGH, they don't believe in birth control so they have as many babies as they want in our hospitals that they don't pay for, and they refuse to learn the language. I cannot stand that everywhere I go there are signs in English and Spanish. I went to a Sprint store with my fiance a few months ago to sign up for service and when we went to pay, the credit card machine in front of us was in SPANISH. Now how the hell were we supposed to read it? We told the salesperson this was ridiculous and took off. Didn't buy the phone. We really have no interest in spending our money places that are encouraging that crap. The last time I checked the national language was ENGLISH, wasn't it? It is appaling that most of them refuse to assimilate into our society. They seem to have a lot to complain about don't they? Those idiots marched all day back in May, with that jackass mayor in LA egging them on, and someone please explain to me what they can complain about? If you don't like it here, GET OUT!!! How dare you whine about anything here when your lives were so horrbile in Mexico you had to flee to America. With all the opportunities everyone has in this country, the least you can do is apply for citizenship. I don't recall which earlier author said something about deporting black people but whoevever said that needs help. Comparing deporting black people to deporting mexicans is like comparing apples to oranges. YOU CAN'T COMPARE IT!!! Black people didn't have a choice in coming here, if you need a little history lesson. THEY WERE FORCED (and no, I am not black). If I ever see any sporting event or any other event playing OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM in Spanish, I'm moving to Canada. S&$% will seriously hit the fan. Americans will go nuts. It's already bad enough that everywhere we go we hear Spanish and see it on signs. How can you seriously expect to ever succeed here if you don't know the language? I hear in the state of California it might go on the ballot making ballots just in English. Which is how it should be. If you can't even speak the language how can you understand something as complex as politics? All those illegals think they can march and protest, well guess what? The day is going to come where the LAW ABIDING citizens are going to fight back, too. The worst part about this is that there are immigrants from Mexico that really did do it the right way. They waited their turn. They learn the language. They pay their taxes. And they are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. But it's not about personality is it? It's about obeying the d**n law. If the rest of us are expected to do it, then so are they. I feel for Ashley's friend. My fiance was just in a car accident yesterday, a FOUR CAR COLLISION, caused by an illegal (well we assume he was, he didn't speak three words of English and had no insurance) trying to dart across the 605 freeway to an exit. His car is totaled. Now our insurance is going to go through the roof because of this jackass. Oh yeah, then there is our neighbors. They live in the same unit we do...two bedrooms, same 1200 square feet. The guy who owns it lives there with his two kids, his mom and dad, and grandma. They have 4 cars between them and take up all the parking spaces outside our unit. I have almost run over visiting relatives hanging out outside our garage and theirs more times than I can count. I am not kidding you when I say we hear mariachi music blaring on the weekends and they put their lawn chairs out front and shoot the s^#$ in Spanish all night. What is WRONG with that picture??? All of this is just getting out of hand. It is very hard for me to have sympathy for an illegal who thinks they are above waiting in line to become a citizen. My step-grandmother fled Germany during the HOLOCAUST. It took her EIGHT YEARS to get her citizenship, which included taking more classes on American history than she could count. Here is a concept...she actually learned the language!!!And she is d**n grateful to be here and loves this country. No one can tell me life in Mexico can compare to Holocaust ridden Germany. So I have no pity for people who can't do it the right way. Go ahead and call me a racist. I don't need to explain to the illegal supporters that I have numerous friends of all races. People only pull the race card when they have nothing better to say anyways, right Ashley?

See, Unlike you Ashley, I DID research. I didnt go based on "what i've seen" or "What i've heard". I did research. Those that use "fake" SSNs, pay all the same taxes that we do. I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the stuff...You're just in this for personal reasons now. I'm sorry about your friend, but had it been a black person or a white person, i dont think you'd be screaming DEPORTATION! Illegals as a whole didnt contribute to your friends pain. ONE person did. You cant blame a whole race for the stupidity of one person...(wow, havent we heard THAT somewhere before?)

I'm Baaack! I come back and I see even more lies. CORY: " Lets say for the sake of arguement that we "humor" this idea and deport ALL of our illegals. Who's going to fund this little project?" - Illegal immigrants cost us more annually than the price would be to deport all of them. Also, in the long run, deporting them would actually SAVE us money. "Would it make you HAPPIER if they brought their entire families over here?" - ...They do.... there aren't twelve million illegals here which are strictly Mexican working males you know. "Haha....have you taken a look at their government? If OUR government was really the government they say they are, they would HELP the problem over there..." - We have no obligation to help a country who got itself into this mess. I mean, we should, just to speed up the process, but in terms of the blame game, look no further than Mexico. And if the 12 millon plus aliens were to all revolt, SOMETHING would get done. Strength in numbers. "Take a trip to a few of the MANY ghettos in mexico...Just go down to a border town. All of the BIG PRETTY houses are near the border. The farther you go, the worse they get. Nobody over there gives a s**t about them. Dont you think they'd fight for something if someone would listen??" - Yeah, because BEAUTIFUL houses are in Nogales... no, the big ones are in Mexico City.. "Because as I said before, they dont care. Why spend money trying to KEEP people there, when they can SAVE money by letting them go? Mexico has always had a problem with corruption. Watch the news, people. " - No one is saying their government isn't corrupt.. what Laura was trying to say is that why don't the CITIZENS march? "They do. But have you taken a look at what the average person makes an hour there? Its downright degrading. Try and find out what the average factory worker makes there. People who make things that WE use here..." - Not our problem. "Again....do some freakin research. They ARE paying their own medical and welfare costs. THEY PAY TAXES, REMEMBER?! They dont FILE, but they PAY! All of that unreturned money goes right back into the governments pockets. The amount ranges somewhere in the BILLIONS..." - Are you talking about them paying taxes to the US government? Right, and the two car accidents I've gotten into, the $30,000 I had to pay in medical, insurance hikes, and car bills OUT OF MY POCKET don't mean anything to illegals AS LONG AS THEY PAY SOME TAXES. Pssst, they DON'T pay income tax. "Rob seems to think that all of our prisoners are of hispanic decent. 80% of the people in our prisons are AMERICAN. " - That may have a little something to do with the fact that a lot of illegals like doing hit and runs.. or maybe that some are truly careful knowing they could be deported, yet silently drain our economy, schools and other resources. "For all the people out there who feel that these people coming here is a "scourge" on our nation, do some research. Thats all I can say...Take a break from bashing our culture and do some research before you start talking. You have to HAVE a valid point before you can STATE one. 43% of all federal taxes that illegals pay (about $7 Billion) goes back to Medicare and Social Security.(something ELSE they'll never see)" - Yeah, and they STILL DONT PAY INCOME TAX. HUGE DEAL!!! I'm not bashing Mexican culture at all, since I'm HALF. About doing some research? Besides living in an entirely Mexican neighborhood for two and a half decades, I think I'm pretty familiar with the issue.... "One last thing...This actually pains me to say it, but its a reality... All the people here who think that all these people become LEGALIZED citizens is going to HELP the economy, you're wrong. If they were to gain amnesty, it would TRIPLE the federal cost. " - Yeah, I know. Deport them. I type all of this as my best friend will probably be disabled for the rest of her life from getting hit by a drunken illegal alien this weekend. Woohoo! Go illegal imimgration! After all, IT'S A VICTIMLESS CRIME.

As long as these people are criminals they have no rights. Let them enter this country like everyone else and then they will be protected like everyone else. I have no pity for criminals. They get what they deserve.

In just the last few rebuttals to this thread I have to comment. To the person who said the illegals make a living wage and then said a low living wage.. Let me explain..NO illegal is making anywhere near the "living wage". The living wage is an actual labor standard that is computed for each area which is the amount a person in that area would need to earn to meet basic needs in that area. The living wage in Pima County as of the last I checked, for a single person to live in a studio apt is approx $12/hour. I don't see many illegals making this kind of money. And the low wages they do work for, lower the wages and working conditions for all of us. Now, to the person who said they pay taxes, etc.. This is NOT the majority. The MAJORITY of illegals work for cash "under the table" or in live in domestic jobs. The employers are getting off the hook by not matching SS, paying workmans comp, or unemployment insurance, which raises the costs for those who do it legal. Rob hit it right on the head. There are NO jobs Americans will not do. We just want a LIVING Wage to do them, and the greedy employers want massive profits. Notice the operative word: WANT I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, but illegals are just that, ILLEGAL! The fact that they ignored our laws, and bypassed everyone who is doing the legal immigration process, makes them CRIMINALS, by definition. Illegal immigration is BAD for our country as a whole. That is a fact. The only winners are big business.

Ok...For people like Letoya...who like to come on here and MAKE things up...First off, if you want to come on here and try to come off as "educated", IT MAKES YOU LOOK RIDICULOUS WHEN YOU CANT SPELL ANYTHING! Lets say for the sake of arguement that we "humor" this idea and deport ALL of our illegals. Who's going to fund this little project? I mean, because you have to remember that our government is fighting a "war on terror" right now. Illegals are the LAST thing on the governments agenda right now. Laura, here's some responses to some of your questions... *****If your family is still there, and you are sending money home to help take care of them, don't you also care what conditions they are living in? Of course they do, but would it make you HAPPIER if they brought their entire families over here? Why are you all not banded together in Mexico city and working for reform? Haha....have you taken a look at their government? If OUR government was really the government they say they are, they would HELP the problem over there... Why not fight for programs in your own communities to increase the economy and way of life? Take a trip to a few of the MANY ghettos in mexico...Just go down to a border town. All of the BIG PRETTY houses are near the border. The farther you go, the worse they get. Nobody over there gives a s**t about them. Dont you think they'd fight for something if someone would listen?? Why is it that those who want to fight for illegal immigrant rights, aren't marching to Mexico city as well? Because as I said before, they dont care. Why spend money trying to KEEP people there, when they can SAVE money by letting them go? Mexico has always had a problem with corruption. Watch the news, people. Why are they not funding programs in Mexico to increase their livelihood there? Why are they not starting business that can provide a good income for those in Mexico? They do. But have you taken a look at what the average person makes an hour there? Its downright degrading. Try and find out what the average factory worker makes there. People who make things that WE use here... Why are you not fighting the Mexican government to provide welfare programs, since you feel so compelled us U.S. citizens should be paying for it? Again....do some freakin research. They ARE paying their own medical and welfare costs. THEY PAY TAXES, REMEMBER?! They dont FILE, but they PAY! All of that unreturned money goes right back into the governments pockets. The amount ranges somewhere in the BILLIONS... And bragging about having 8 kids and taking care of them on your own is hardly commendable. Having 8 kids doesnt earn you the right to look down on anybody else. Rob seems to think that all of our prisoners are of hispanic decent. 80% of the people in our prisons are AMERICAN. As of June 30, State and Federal Prisons housed 88,626 NON citizens. In a prison population totaling more than 2 million people, thats not even worth mentioning... So look for a new arguement. Does anybody else see it as biased that African Americans are 20% more likely to be sentenced to prison on a drug conviction than white people? Or how about hispanics being 40% more likely to be sentenced? For all the people out there who feel that these people coming here is a "scourge" on our nation, do some research. Thats all I can say...Take a break from bashing our culture and do some research before you start talking. You have to HAVE a valid point before you can STATE one. 43% of all federal taxes that illegals pay (about $7 Billion) goes back to Medicare and Social Security.(something ELSE they'll never see) One last thing...This actually pains me to say it, but its a reality... All the people here who think that all these people become LEGALIZED citizens is going to HELP the economy, you're wrong. If they were to gain amnesty, it would TRIPLE the federal cost. To Flaviano, I say this. Congratulations on all your success, and I wish you all the best. To the rest of you against illegal immigrants, do the research, see for yourself, and stop assuming. Take a trip down there, read some reports, and find out the truth. Stop stretching other peoples opninions to make it YOUR truth.

I have read most of the comments on this issue, and being a resident of Mesa, AZ for quite some time (growing up here, going to school here, etc.), I feel that I have seen alot of the "immigration" issues first hand. First of all, I am a White/Caucasian/Anglo (whatever) 24 yr. old female with family roots in Ireland, Germany, and probably lots of other places. I love my culture, and I don't have a problem saying that. I have no prejudices against people of any color or creed, what have you. What sickens me with any race, including my own, are the attitudes of the lazy, self serving members. There are two kinds of people in every race. The proper name, and the politically incorrect name (cracker, sp*ck, ni**er, g**k yadda yadda, all are equally vulgar). There are lazy, system abusing people in every race. Hell, I'M lazy and system abusing sometimes (I hack off of neighboring wireless high-speed internet so I don't have to pay Cox Cable sometimes). What this all boils down to is respecting the country in which you immigrate too. If I get a wild hair up my butt to move to France, Russia, or Italy...you can bet your life savings that I'm going to learn French, Russian, or Italian. How can you expect to survive in a FOREIGN culture without learning about it? I know that the economy sucks in other countries. I watch the news, I see the documentaries, and my heart goes out to these people, but I would not expect them to learn my culture and adapt to my language if I decided to move there. Tourist hot spots like Vegas, NY, or LA should have multiple language resources available. That's the price you should pay for the billion dollar tourist industry. I know that on trips to Rocky Point I've taken, some of the Mexicans speak English when they want to sell me something. But I still can't expect to do much out there without knowing "survivors" Spanish. There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigration. By all means, if your life is really that bad, please do come here. America will embrace you and help you have a better life. But don't expect America to completely change and adapt to your former customs. Respect this country and be grateful for the chance for a better life she is offering you. By all means, if you're in your private residence, speak your native tounge. That is your life-given right. But honestly, weren't you asking for a different BETTER life? Then how can you expect everything to be the same?!! Also, to Mexican-Americans....please stop making this immigration issue all about YOU. It's about ALL illegal immigrants. Not just you. Granted, I do see alot of "profiled" Mexicans in Mesa...the ones that are pregnant at 14, or the ones that have 15 children at Wal-Mart and can't seem to keep them in line. But, guess what...in neighboring Apache Junction, there are tons of white people who are doing the exact same thing. It's not just about Mexico. Mexico is just the easiest target right now. I for one love Mexican culture: the architechure, the clothing, and hello! the food is great! But please respect this country, and not ask us to play a Spanish recording of the Star Spangled Banner. That is just a downright slap in the face to the country that is providing your living. And I would say the same thing to a Frenchman, Italian, or Asian, if they had done it. Also to the bigots out there....unless your are a DIRECT DECENDANT of a Native American, you are an immigrant too! Your ancestors came in search of a better life so that you could be born into freedom. Besides, if bigots have such an issue with "preserving America" and our freedom, then they should be in the Armed Forces or National Guard. Everyone should just respect one another. This country was founded on immigrants. If they are making a genuine effort to live a better life without disregarding the foundation of their country, then Americans should provide them the proper, ABUSE-FREE necessities to do so. Every human has a right to reach for the stars.

I have read most of the comments on this issue, and being a resident of Mesa, AZ for quite some time (growing up here, going to school here, etc.), I feel that I have seen alot of the "immigration" issues first hand. First of all, I am a White/Caucasian/Anglo (whatever) 24 yr. old female with family roots in Ireland, Germany, and probably lots of other places. I love my culture, and I don't have a problem saying that. I have no prejudices against people of any color or creed, what have you. What sickens me with any race, including my own, are the attitudes of the lazy, self serving members. There are two kinds of people in every race. The proper name, and the politically incorrect name (cracker, sp*ck, ni**er, g**k yadda yadda, all are equally vulgar). There are lazy, system abusing people in every race. Hell, I'M lazy and system abusing sometimes (I hack off of neighboring wireless high-speed internet so I don't have to pay Cox Cable sometimes). What this all boils down to is respecting the country in which you immigrate too. If I get a wild hair up my butt to move to France, Russia, or Italy...you can bet your life savings that I'm going to learn French, Russian, or Italian. How can you expect to survive in a FOREIGN culture without learning about it? I know that the economy sucks in other countries. I watch the news, I see the documentaries, and my heart goes out to these people, but I would not expect them to learn my culture and adapt to my language if I decided to move there. Tourist hot spots like Vegas, NY, or LA should have multiple language resources available. That's the price you should pay for the billion dollar tourist industry. I know that on trips to Rocky Point I've taken, some of the Mexicans speak English when they want to sell me something. But I still can't expect to do much out there without knowing "survivors" Spanish. There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigration. By all means, if your life is really that bad, please do come here. America will embrace you and help you have a better life. But don't expect America to completely change and adapt to your former customs. Respect this country and be grateful for the chance for a better life she is offering you. By all means, if you're in your private residence, speak your native tounge. That is your life-given right. But honestly, weren't you asking for a different BETTER life? Then how can you expect everything to be the same?!! Also, to Mexican-Americans....please stop making this immigration issue all about YOU. It's about ALL illegal immigrants. Not just you. Granted, I do see alot of "profiled" Mexicans in Mesa...the ones that are pregnant at 14, or the ones that have 15 children at Wal-Mart and can't seem to keep them in line. But, guess what...in neighboring Apache Junction, there are tons of white people who are doing the exact same thing. It's not just about Mexico. Mexico is just the easiest target right now. I for one love Mexican culture: the architechure, the clothing, and hello! the food is great! But please respect this country, and not ask us to play a Spanish recording of the Star Spangled Banner. That is just a downright slap in the face to the country that is providing your living. And I would say the same thing to a Frenchman, Italian, or Asian, if they had done it. Also to the bigots out there....unless your are a DIRECT DECENDANT of a Native American, you are an immigrant too! Your ancestors came in search of a better life so that you could be born into freedom. Besides, if bigots have such an issue with "preserving America" and our freedom, then they should be in the Armed Forces or National Guard. Everyone should just respect one another. This country was founded on immigrants. If they are making a genuine effort to live a better life without disregarding the foundation of their country, then Americans should provide them the proper, ABUSE-FREE necessities to do so. Every human has a right to reach for the stars.

I have read most of the comments on this issue, and being a resident of Mesa, AZ for quite some time (growing up here, going to school here, etc.), I feel that I have seen alot of the "immigration" issues first hand. First of all, I am a White/Caucasian/Anglo (whatever) 24 yr. old female with family roots in Ireland, Germany, and probably lots of other places. I love my culture, and I don't have a problem saying that. I have no prejudices against people of any color or creed, what have you. What sickens me with any race, including my own, are the attitudes of the lazy, self serving members. There are two kinds of people in every race. The proper name, and the politically incorrect name (cracker, sp*ck, ni**er, g**k yadda yadda, all are equally vulgar). There are lazy, system abusing people in every race. Hell, I'M lazy and system abusing sometimes (I hack off of neighboring wireless high-speed internet so I don't have to pay Cox Cable sometimes). What this all boils down to is respecting the country in which you immigrate too. If I get a wild hair up my butt to move to France, Russia, or Italy...you can bet your life savings that I'm going to learn French, Russian, or Italian. How can you expect to survive in a FOREIGN culture without learning about it? I know that the economy sucks in other countries. I watch the news, I see the documentaries, and my heart goes out to these people, but I would not expect them to learn my culture and adapt to my language if I decided to move there. Tourist hot spots like Vegas, NY, or LA should have multiple language resources available. That's the price you should pay for the billion dollar tourist industry. I know that on trips to Rocky Point I've taken, some of the Mexicans speak English when they want to sell me something. But I still can't expect to do much out there without knowing "survivors" Spanish. There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigration. By all means, if your life is really that bad, please do come here. America will embrace you and help you have a better life. But don't expect America to completely change and adapt to your former customs. Respect this country and be grateful for the chance for a better life she is offering you. By all means, if you're in your private residence, speak your native tounge. That is your life-given right. But honestly, weren't you asking for a different BETTER life? Then how can you expect everything to be the same?!! Also, to Mexican-Americans....please stop making this immigration issue all about YOU. It's about ALL illegal immigrants. Not just you. Granted, I do see alot of "profiled" Mexicans in Mesa...the ones that are pregnant at 14, or the ones that have 15 children at Wal-Mart and can't seem to keep them in line. But, guess what...in neighboring Apache Junction, there are tons of white people who are doing the exact same thing. It's not just about Mexico. Mexico is just the easiest target right now. I for one love Mexican culture: the architechure, the clothing, and hello! the food is great! But please respect this country, and not ask us to play a Spanish recording of the Star Spangled Banner. That is just a downright slap in the face to the country that is providing your living. And I would say the same thing to a Frenchman, Italian, or Asian, if they had done it. Also to the bigots out there....unless your are a DIRECT DECENDANT of a Native American, you are an immigrant too! Your ancestors came in search of a better life so that you could be born into freedom. Besides, if bigots have such an issue with "preserving America" and our freedom, then they should be in the Armed Forces or National Guard. Everyone should just respect one another. This country was founded on immigrants. If they are making a genuine effort to live a better life without disregarding the foundation of their country, then Americans should provide them the proper, ABUSE-FREE necessities to do so. Every human has a right to reach for the stars.

I have read most of the comments on this issue, and being a resident of Mesa, AZ for quite some time (growing up here, going to school here, etc.), I feel that I have seen alot of the "immigration" issues first hand. First of all, I am a White/Caucasian/Anglo (whatever) 24 yr. old female with family roots in Ireland, Germany, and probably lots of other places. I love my culture, and I don't have a problem saying that. I have no prejudices against people of any color or creed, what have you. What sickens me with any race, including my own, are the attitudes of the lazy, self serving members. There are two kinds of people in every race. The proper name, and the politically incorrect name (cracker, sp*ck, ni**er, g**k yadda yadda, all are equally vulgar). There are lazy, system abusing people in every race. Hell, I'M lazy and system abusing sometimes (I hack off of neighboring wireless high-speed internet so I don't have to pay Cox Cable sometimes). What this all boils down to is respecting the country in which you immigrate too. If I get a wild hair up my butt to move to France, Russia, or Italy...you can bet your life savings that I'm going to learn French, Russian, or Italian. How can you expect to survive in a FOREIGN culture without learning about it? I know that the economy sucks in other countries. I watch the news, I see the documentaries, and my heart goes out to these people, but I would not expect them to learn my culture and adapt to my language if I decided to move there. Tourist hot spots like Vegas, NY, or LA should have multiple language resources available. That's the price you should pay for the billion dollar tourist industry. I know that on trips to Rocky Point I've taken, some of the Mexicans speak English when they want to sell me something. But I still can't expect to do much out there without knowing "survivors" Spanish. There is absolutely nothing wrong with immigration. By all means, if your life is really that bad, please do come here. America will embrace you and help you have a better life. But don't expect America to completely change and adapt to your former customs. Respect this country and be grateful for the chance for a better life she is offering you. By all means, if you're in your private residence, speak your native tounge. That is your life-given right. But honestly, weren't you asking for a different BETTER life? Then how can you expect everything to be the same?!! Also, to Mexican-Americans....please stop making this immigration issue all about YOU. It's about ALL illegal immigrants. Not just you. Granted, I do see alot of "profiled" Mexicans in Mesa...the ones that are pregnant at 14, or the ones that have 15 children at Wal-Mart and can't seem to keep them in line. But, guess what...in neighboring Apache Junction, there are tons of white people who are doing the exact same thing. It's not just about Mexico. Mexico is just the easiest target right now. I for one love Mexican culture: the architechure, the clothing, and hello! the food is great! But please respect this country, and not ask us to play a Spanish recording of the Star Spangled Banner. That is just a downright slap in the face to the country that is providing your living. And I would say the same thing to a Frenchman, Italian, or Asian, if they had done it. Also to the bigots out there....unless your are a DIRECT DECENDANT of a Native American, you are an immigrant too! Your ancestors came in search of a better life so that you could be born into freedom. Besides, if bigots have such an issue with "preserving America" and our freedom, then they should be in the Armed Forces or National Guard. Everyone should just respect one another. This country was founded on immigrants. If they are making a genuine effort to live a better life without disregarding the foundation of their country, then Americans should provide them the proper, ABUSE-FREE necessities to do so. Every human has a right to reach for the stars.

Everytime the issue of immigration comes up, the first thing you hear is, " we are doing jobs for people who don't want to do it" " The economy would slow down" " we're contributing millions to the economy" First off, you act like if every border jumper was to leave, that America would all of a sudden screach to a halt. There are plenty of people here to do the work and keep things going, were just not going to do it for .05 cents an hour. And the living conditions is your own fault. I don't think any one in American is anti Mexican, just anti illegal. If you were legal, then those tax dollers would come back to benefit everyone, instead of your 70 year old grandma who just arrived last week and never paid into the system, who is taking care of ten kids cause all their parents are in lock up. Drain Drain Drain. Do we even need to talk about crime or the cost to keep someone in prison?

The way to combat this problem is very simple - enforce the laws already in place or increase penalties. I feel for those illegal immigrants who have to live through this- but would they have had to if they went through the proper channels? We have migrant workers that come here every year and while they are not living at the Ritz , the housing is humane, and the wage is a living wage although a low living wage - but nevertheless, more than what they would be getting in Mexico. These are legal migrant workers, who waited their time and didn't try to break the law. Secondly, increase teh penalties for employers who hire illegal immigrants and provide such horrible conditions for them. If the penalty was stiff enough and steep enough - they wouldn't run the risk, period - if it was enforced. But I have to ask why is it that you feel so compelled to fight for rights in this country, when you don't want to fight in your own. If your family is still there, and you are sending money home to help take care of them, don't you also care what conditions they are living in. Why are you all not banded together in Mexico city and working for reform? Why not fight for programs in your own communities to increase the economy and way of life? Why is it that those who want to fight for illegal immigrant rights, aren't marching to Mexico city as well? Why are they not funding programs in Mexico to increase their livelihood there? Why are they not starting business that can provide a good income for those in Mexico? Why are you not fighting the Mexican government to provide welfare programs, since you feel so compelled us U.S. citizens should be paying for it? Wouldn't this make everyone happy? We get our economy back, and they get to live in a more stable and humane environment. Enforce the laws, come here legally to work, and fight for your rights in your own country - not just those lucky enough to sneek across the Rio Grande. And to all you who whine about your maids being taken away - pay more or do it yourself, I can manage to take care of 8 children and house by myself, so can you - it would just mean one trip away from the Spa every week.

The reason that Bush is doing nothing about the influx is very simple. It is so simple I am actually shocked that you did not figure it out for yourself. Still wondering? Okay, let me answer it for you. If you look at the "United States" past, we have always allowed a large influx of foreigners to enter the country because their services were needed. In the past it was due to the fact that so many United States Citizens of Euro Decent were fighting in wars abroad. Once they were "no longer needed" they were "sent away" without even a thank you for supporting us during our time of need. Instead they were called a scourge. Great way to make friends. The last few recent wars have still called for foreigners to give us support during our time of need. This time around as soldiers. Unless you don't keep up with current events, it is hard to miss that a high percentage of the names of deceased soldiers has been of Latin Orgin. It is sad that there are people who are so ignorant and hate those who are willing to fight for a country of which so many people don't want the majority of them to be here... oh wait, Iraq is going through that too with the U.S. being over there... but that is a different rant. Regardless, These young men and women of Latin Orgins are spilling their blood so you can drive your S.U.V.'s (many of them children of undocumented immigrants) and you have your head stuck so far up your *ss that you can't even say thank you.

I, agree we should throw out these Illegal Immigrant but some how george w. bush wants them in this country, because bush & the republicans are doing nothing about this problem!.

I would like to say that nothing in America is for so why should these illegals get everything for free. What they need to do is protest in their country why go to another person country for your rights you should get rights from your government in mexico. In every other country if you were illegal you would be sent back to your country as soon as possible. you illegals are bringing down the country. Thsi is what we as americans need to do we need to protest and march just like what they did to let them know we are tired of it. And for those who say americans are lazy we are not lazy we are far from it. If we were lazy why is America the wealthiest country in the world. If illegals love to work so much then why don't you illegals work to bring up the econnmy in Mexico since you are not lazy and love to work for the illegal that says black are lazy let me tell you something I am a black female 25 with my own business. My husband is black as well and he own his own business as well. I live is a home over 4,400 square feet that i purchase for over 500k and i would never hire an illegal to clean my house. I would never hire an illegal to work at my business never. But for us americans we need to find these company that are hiring illegals and report them to the government. For the illegals that think the American government is going to pass the law to give you illegals path to citizenship think againg because it will never pass matter afact it was dead upon arrival. When we get bush out of office it will all change so illegals pack your bags. My other problem with illegals is that they are not recorded in the government data base so if they commit a crime they can get away with it. I say deport them all. All 11 million of them.

I find many of the responses to the original post to be hilarious for the most part. I love how most negative statements call Immigrants criminals. A scourge to society to say the least. I am the product of a Mexican Migrant Working Family. My father came here at the age of fourteen to find work to better himself and find a better life... He did. My father worked in the fields for many, many years. Eventually he became a mechanic, learned enough to open his own auto shop and now owns one of the largest Jaguar Dealerships in Southern California, a regular living home (Which happens to be the largest home in our city), various vacation homes and apartment complexes. My mother is a teacher in the LAUSD and has been for several years. I, as well as my two brothers (yes we are only 3 offsring, not 13 as many have mentioned Mexicans have so many) are all college educated, Myself with a degree in literature, and my younger brothers with a degree in Business and the other in Music (respectively by age). I myself chose to open a book store and will eventually be a teacher, my brother with a business degree will be taking over my fathers business and my youngest brother will use his degree in music to be a teacher as well (though he is young enough to still believe he will be a rockstar, more power to him). Also, various people in my family (uncles and aunts on both sides) have very respected positions at universities (Berkley, Davis, SF, to mention a few) as well high level government positions in california (well, mainly in the Bay Area) and high positions in companies such as Chevron. Not to mention the Various Cousins that I have working in Law Enforcement, as Fireman, Marines, Navymen, Army Rangers, Doctors and Lawyers. Yes, this really does seem like the Mexican criminal entity is the main entity from Mexico that is entering the United States and creating a Scourge on its people. My point being, when people "fight" immigration they like to focus on the bad. There are bad seeds in all races but, you can't judge all people by those few. Rather than be a "victim" of the problem why not do what these people did. Move and make a better life for yourself. I already know what you are saying in your head.. "Why should I have to move? blah blah blah" Do you really think these people wanted to move? No, but they did to find a better life. When my father came to the U.S. he thought it would be for a couple of years, make money and go home to Mexico. He came at 14 and is now 55 years old, he has not seen his home town but 2 or 3 times since he left as a boy. It is a hard thing to do for anyone. The Determination a person has determines what kind of person they will be. If you spend your life blaming others for your short comings you will have nothing but those short comings. If my parents and their families can come from Mexico as they did and create what they have, anyone with the same determination can. How about focusing on families like mine or would you complain that your lack of education and determination was detered because of families like mine? Fact is the United States is a beautiful place if you know what you are doing. I call it the United States because that is what it is, not "America". America is two continents, not a country. Unfortunately human nature is to point the finger at others for your own short comings and downfalls. Let us take a quick look at the hated in this country at this moment, Middle Easterns because of 9/11, Latin Americans because most are here taking legal United States Citizens Jobs. Just a few years ago we hated Blacks. Before that China, Russia (U.S.S.R.)and other communist countries thought now we have trade routes with them. Before that the Japanese-Americans because of what there Native Japanese Counterparts had done. Before that, Italian and Irish Immigrants (of which many Irish Immigrants fought on the Side of Mexico during the Mexican-American War because of the way the U.S. Government treated them, How about that). The list goes on and on. It is sad to say that as "Civilized" a nation as we have become, we still can't get over ourselves and point at others for our own downfall. Remember, This is your world, These are your people. You can build the world for yourself today, or you can help build tomorrow for everyone. Flaviano - Southern California

I think we shoul make a good guest worker program where they pay their fare share in tax and their own health care and make it easy for good law abiding (help mexico develop a good criminal background check) mexicans to come here. If they get stupid and start getting arrested or not working ship them back. The problem is for every 1 hard working mexican comming here to make a living there is 5 in the ghetto, commiting crimes and sucking the system dry. We need to attack the employers with heavy penalties for employing illegals. We should build huge tent prisions on the border for illegals 1st offence 6 months, 2nd 1 yr. 3rd offence 18 mo. If we make it easy for good law abiding mexicans to come here and very hard for the bad and the employers employing them. Our problem would be solved.

Take a look around out there and do some research... They're not stupid. They wouldnt mow your lawn for 2 dollars an hour. As a matter of fact, i ran into a group of people a couple of weeks ago who are actually exploiting the fact that people want them gone. They wont do the jobs that they have for less than $12 an hour. The reason? They KNOW they're needed. Did they get fired for refusing to work for less? Nope. Did they get the money they wanted? They sure did! I think this thread is funny for a couple of reasons. A majority of the people posting here most likely live fairly well. Most of you have probably never been in these situations. As somebody who has a majority of family members who are in this country illegally, I know first hand what alot of them go through. On that same note, i've seen how unfairly people who ARE here legally get treated by the government and law enforcement. It's extremely unfair for the majority of these people to get treated the way they do. My father has been in this country LEGALLY for 30 years. Yet every time he comes back from Mexico, there's been a couple of Customs agents who try to catch him doing something illegally. These "few" agents have been trying to pin something on him for the last 20 years. They have nothing. He's done nothing. So while they're wasting time and money trying to set somebody up, real criminals are sneaking through. THATS an injustice. A rough estimate, i would say, would be about 150 people from my family have come here illegally. Out of those people, not a single one has ever done anything to break the law while they've been here. They've never collected a single dollar in taxes that most of us do. They dont complain. They're not able to get benifits at jobs they've been with for 15 plus years. They dont complain. They go to work, they get paid, they're happy. They obey the rules and laws of this country while they're here, and they're happy. None of you know they're here, so why does it bother you? Is it the fact that a new "mexican" meat market just sprang up in your neighborhood and it bothers you? Is it the fact that you were at the store last week and you overheard a conversation in spanish that you didnt understand? I'm proud of my heritage for a few reasons. My great great grandfather came here from Germany in the 1800's. I'm German, Irish, and Dutch on my mothers side. I'm Mexican on my fathers side. I have no knowledge of my caucasian heritage. Thats all I know about where I came from. The mexican side I am proud of. I was taught German and Spanish as a child, but have next to no idea of how to speak German. Knowing Spanish has been an advantage for me throughout my life. As an adult, i've seen alot more than I'm comfortable with as far as this thread goes. The harsh reality of it is simply this; no matter what any of us do, say, or wish to happen, this problem will not go away. Not in our time, nor our childrens. There are ways to tighten it up, but there's no way to ever make it go away. The sooner we can all see that, the faster we can come up with a realistic solution. I mean, come on... They're talking about stripping children whose parents are here illegally of their citizenship. That goes against our constitution. Against what this country was founded on. There are more realistic, less ridiculous things that can be done to help minimize the problem. Instead of butting heads trying to push that you're right and i'm wrong, lets be constructive. Lets come up with a REASONABLE solution. You get enough people behind you, you're gonna make some changes.

These people are CRIMINALS. They have no repect for our laws, hence breaking them to get here. They don't "do jobs that Americans don't want." They do jobs Americans don't want to do for such little money. When I was a kid, I looked forward to becoming of working age so I could work in a car wash, restaurant, etc. I worked part-time as a cleaner in my school. Now, with the salaries for basic jobs not having increased much since the mid '80s, of COURSE Americans don't want these jobs! CRIMINAL "immigrants" facilitate Americans being able to forsate their own in favor of cheap, exploitive labor. If you want to do something about the exploitation of CRIMINAL "immigrants," MAKE THEM LEAVE. Would you mow my lawn for $2 an hour? A mexican CRIMINAL would. Would you mow my lawn for $20 an hour? I'd mow lawns for $20 an hour, and if people had to pay that much to get their lawns mowed, they would. So don't try to make it sound like the labor infrastructure of this country would come crashing down if all the criminial "immigrants" left. There are enough people allowed into this country legally, and enough willing to abide by the laws by coming here legally, that there's really no basis for that claim anyway. It's time to get serious and stop the invasion.

I'm not saying that ALL employers are responsible for it. I'm saying that the people profiled in the beginning of this report should have done something for the people they hired... ESPECIALLY since it was on their personal private property. More SHOULD HAVE been done, but wasn't. We all know that our opinions are not going to be taken by all who read them, and I respect that. But my point is this...If you're going to break the law by hiring people illegally, then you should at least treat those people with some sort of civility and compassion... The SLAVES got better housing than that. Thats all I'm saying...

The employer is NOT responsible for providing housing to the employees...PERIOD! My family came here LEGALLY, so I am not just like an ILLEGAL immigrant. My family filled out paperwork, passed the exams to come over, etc. Just about the only group of immigrants who DON'T think they should do that are Mexicans. And for them to come here LEGALLY, is FREE. Their own Government will provide all of the paperwork and documents they need to enter LEGALLY. It's funny because Mexico has it's own ILLEGAL immigration problem on IT'S own Southern border. There, when the Mexican authorities catch you, they put you in jail for 2 years. A Congressman here in America worded an immigration policy to be exactly like Mexico's...verbatim. The Mexican Government protested, saying it was a horrible violation of human rights. Hmmmm. It's good enough for their own Government, but if we did it, it's a human rights violation. Keep pitching out there. Some of us know how to hit them out of the park.

The employer is NOT responsible for providing housing to the employees...PERIOD! My family came here LEGALLY, so I am not just like an ILLEGAL immigrant. My family filled out paperwork, passed the exams to come over, etc. Just about the only group of immigrants who DON'T think they should do that are Mexicans. And for them to come here LEGALLY, is FREE. Their own Government will provide all of the paperwork and documents they need to enter LEGALLY. It's funny because Mexico has it's own ILLEGAL immigration problem on IT'S own Southern border. There, when the Mexican authorities catch you, they put you in jail for 2 years. A Congressman here in America worded an immigration policy to be exactly like Mexico's...verbatim. The Mexican Government protested, saying it was a horrible violation of human rights. Hmmmm. It's good enough for their own Government, but if we did it, it's a human rights violation. Keep pitching out there. Some of us know how to hit them out of the park.

The employer is NOT responsible for providing housing to the employees...PERIOD! My family came here LEGALLY, so I am not just like an ILLEGAL immigrant. My family filled out paperwork, passed the exams to come over, etc. Just about the only group of immigrants who DON'T think they should do that are Mexicans. And for them to come here LEGALLY, is FREE. Their own Government will provide all of the paperwork and documents they need to enter LEGALLY. It's funny because Mexico has it's own ILLEGAL immigration problem on IT'S own Southern border. There, when the Mexican authorities catch you, they put you in jail for 2 years. A Congressman here in America worded an immigration policy to be exactly like Mexico's...verbatim. The Mexican Government protested, saying it was a horrible violation of human rights. Hmmmm. It's good enough for their own Government, but if we did it, it's a human rights violation. Keep pitching out there. Some of us know how to hit them out of the park.

The employer is NOT responsible for providing housing to the employees...PERIOD! My family came here LEGALLY, so I am not just like an ILLEGAL immigrant. My family filled out paperwork, passed the exams to come over, etc. Just about the only group of immigrants who DON'T think they should do that are Mexicans. And for them to come here LEGALLY, is FREE. Their own Government will provide all of the paperwork and documents they need to enter LEGALLY. It's funny because Mexico has it's own ILLEGAL immigration problem on IT'S own Southern border. There, when the Mexican authorities catch you, they put you in jail for 2 years. A Congressman here in America worded an immigration policy to be exactly like Mexico's...verbatim. The Mexican Government protested, saying it was a horrible violation of human rights. Hmmmm. It's good enough for their own Government, but if we did it, it's a human rights violation. Keep pitching out there. Some of us know how to hit them out of the park.

Ok... Robert, my comment was basically based on the pictures from the beginning of this report. If these people are going to hire illegal immigrants to come work on their land, live on their land, etc... They should at LEAST, give them adequate shelter... AT LEAST. Regardless of their legal status, they ARE human beings. For these people to be worked the way they are for the wages they make, is bad enough. But they do it. I'm not saying that every employer should give free room and board to their employees... but then again, i'm sure that you dont have YOUR employees working out on some farm, field, or orchard in 100+ degree heat working for 6 dollars an hour and living in cardboard huts... Do you? If you're going to treat them like slaves, how are you any better of a person than them? They work for money. ANY money. ANY money here is better than what they make where they're from. And all this talk about "the mexican government needs to work on this and that..." Dont you think that if they could, they would?? Why doesnt the United States offer some help? They've got a hand in everything else that goes on in this world...(that makes a profit) Why not lend a helping hand to a SISTER country for once? Instead of spreading our troops thin all throughout the world, and exhausting valuable money, resources, and human lives on a cause that we as a country gave up on LOOOOOOONG ago.... Why dont they help out a country that NEEDS it? It's ridiculous for us, as a nation, to act as though we're the only people on this planet that have a god given right to be here... Every single person on this post (with the exception of any native americans) has known someone or is related to someone who came to this nation ILLEGALLY at some point. They weren't ASKED to come here. They weren't "welcomed with open arms" when they stepped off of their boats. The English...They fled here to avoid religious persecution... The spanish came here exploring... When they got here, there was already people HERE! Just because there wasnt any "laws" against it at the time doesnt justify it. Every culture that came here, did so with a purpose. Whether it be exploration, exile, escaping persecution, whatever that reason was, there was a reason. Now we turn people away. Make them go through ridiculous processes, register for this, sign up for that...And say they can only stay here for so long?? How many people were sent back to England after 5 years? How many spanish were sent home after 5 years? Its ridiculous. If there is going to be borders, protect them... But not from the people trying to make a living or give their families a better life... But from the people who seek to destroy us. The people who hate us for these EXACT REASONS! Focus more on the people building bombs and plotting mass murders and less on the people trying to build houses and picking fruit... The people you dont want here are just like you. They would die for their family. They would do anything to make sure their children have a better life than they did. Whats so wrong with that? You didnt earn the right to live here...why should they?

I don't provide my employees with housing. I also don't provide them with a Doctor. Granted, mine are American citizens, but how does being in this country illegally suddenly mean the person employing them must do more than give them a paycheck? The American Indians had a very poor immigration policy. See what happened?

None whatsoever... The bible has nothing to do with this. I dont know where you came from with that, but...what does "Noah's Ark" have to do with todays issues? Are you saying god is going to flood the earth because mexicans are coming here illegally? Doesnt make any d**n sense...As far as the living conditions go...Regardless of HOW they got here or WHY they're here, it doesnt matter. They shouldnt be treated as inferiors and be forced to live in shantys and cardboard huts with no running water... If you're going to hire them and let them live on your property, then obviously they're going to be working for you. I dont expect my employer to send me to "James The Butcher" in some backalley somewhere for medical problems because they wanna save some money. If you're going to hire them to work for you (which is illegal in the first d**n place) at LEAST have the decency to accomodate them in a compassionate form.

To all those people out there that do not understand the laws of the land you only have to look in the bible for your answer. Under God's law the Israelites had to obey the law and if they did not then they were punished plain and simple. Well what would happen if a group of people decided to protest and make God change the law? Well it didn't change the fact the law was the law. If people decided to protest and some did they were put to death. Now I'm not saying the Illegal Aliens here from Mexico should be put to death but they are reaping what they have sowed. I saw the very sad heart felt pictures and I must say they are bad living conditions but, that is the more reason why I would think a person would want to obey the law. Furthermore, these people cannot be compared with slaves from this country because the slaves where brought here against their will, every Mexican here has come on their own free will. If Mexicans don't learn to obey the law now they never will obey any law including God's law and by the way it doesn't matter how many people protest it remember "Noah's Ark"

Thank you... Has anybody seen the most recent evidence of "How stupid our elected leader is?". Please...watch. http://heaven666.org/videos/bush-owned-interview-774.php How are we supposed to rely on a man like Bush, when this kind of stuff happens??! ON CAMERA!?? Its just about as scary as his vocabulary. If you think Bush is going to be the one who even makes a DENT in illegal immigration, then watch the video one more time and think about it... Its too funny to even comprehend that bush is gonna be able to solve the "problem", as you people call it.

Reality is too real. Bet after you solve the "Illegal" problem your next agenda will be; How to Make America (to f'in funny that those from the USA exclude "All of the America's - Central and South) an All White Nation. The blame clearly points to Republicans. Demorcats are pro Union and want the wealth shared, so it has to be the Republican who are the driving force behind the influx of Illegals. Republics; the first to hire them, the first to complain about them and the most likely to benefit from them. Republicans seem to be very conflicted in their thoughts. P. S. I Like the Majority of United States citizans (last I heard we make up 52%), I can't stand either of our two major parties - count me as one who has no faith in either. Listening to C-SPAN and the childish arguing that these two jack-a*s parties ingage in - why would anyone lower themselfs to supporting groups that consistantly prove they can't do anything right. Focus on real problems people, like how to run a Country. Illegals don't even make my top 100 list.

I have a question... Why does it always seem to come to this? Illegal Immigrants sell drugs...blah blah blah... I'm gonna say this one more time... WHITE AMERICANS, BLACK AMERICANS, NATIVE AMERICANS, MEXICAN AMERICANS, ETC......THEY ALL SELL DRUGS...LEGAL OR NOT! And stop crying about it...If there wasnt a "market" for the stuff, there wouldnt be the need to sell it. Everybody goes to jail just the same... assuming they're caught. Just because you have seen or heard of a few instances where someone got treated differently, doesnt mean its an epidemic... If somebody can come up with a legit, VALID arguement that involves something that ISNT or HAS NOT already been done in this country by US CITIZENS, then please...find something. Nobody on this continent is "non immigrant" except for one group. It may be getting old as a point, but d**n it, IT'S TRUE. So this is what I see..."Lets forget what our forefathers did to the people that were here when they got there. Lets forget about what happened back then. Lets pretend like this was our land to begin with. Lets say that nobody else has the right to come here the way WE did." Its ignorant. How many of you people are NOT relatives of someone who came here from ANOTHER COUNTRY!? Unless you're Native American, your family came here from SOMEWHERE. The Native Americans didnt for them all to learn the native language at the time, pass some stupid test, or make them serve in their "Army". What in the hell gives the U.S. the right? "Give me your sick, your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these the homeless, tempest-tost to me, i lift my lamp beside the golden door!" When did we cast this aside? When did we decide that this had no meaning?

I am losing ALOT of respect for some of the people on the message board... I'm sick of hearing that MEXICANS are wanting to ruin this, or destroying that... How do you know they're from mexico?? Because they came up THROUGH mexico??! When you're talking ILLEGAL immigrants coming up THROUGH mexico, you're talking about Southern and Central American, as WELL as Chinese... When i'm at work and I hear someone make some stupid a*s comment like, "Fu**ing Mexicans" or some dumb crap like that, I wanna smack the dog crap out of them. When did you people start checking ID's? I understand illegal immigration is a major problem here, but its not going to go away, EVER. Alot of you are living in this alternate reality where you seem to think that its going to go away in the near future. The Minutemen for example... How long until some minutemen get kidnapped? How long until some national guardsmen get shot at? How long until we end up starting a revolution? Instead of trying to find a way to Irraticate the problem, why not try to come up with a peaceful solution? All the people in the forum have alot in common. They all SUPPORT one side or the other. They all have a comment or an idea. How many of you have put them to use? How many have gone out and applied your ideas? Haha...i've got one for ya. Sedona, Arizona just had a fire blow through it. Started on Sunday, June 18th. Did you know that that fire is now the NUMBER ONE priority in the Nation? 1/5th the size of a fire in Colorado, but the Nations #1 Priority. Why? Sedona generates more than 1 Billion Dollars in From Tourism alone every year. 80% of all people who are employed in Sedona are Immigrants. (Legal and Non). Ask your government why its the #1 priority right now. (MOOOOOOOOOOOONEY) Watch the News...

They do the jobs that a lot of us don't want to do. How ever, what I do have a problem with is, the crimes that are committed by Illegal Immigrants. I resently found out that in the midwest where there is none or hardly any Immigrantion Law enforcement or what ever they are called. When local police catch these Illegal Immigrants breaking laws, they can't do anything about it until immigration is called. Most of the time they just let them go. They are not diplomats, they don't have diplomatic immunity, but it seems that that is what is going on. If you are not following me, here is an example. Illegal Immigrants sell drugs, doesn't matter what drug, but is caught by local law, they let them go and just take the drugs. (It seems to be too much trouble to contact who they need to, to take care of the problem) If it where me, I would be serving time in prison! Thank you for your time.

I am for Legal immigration, there is nothing wrong with wanting to go somewhere else to make a better life for yourself, if you plan on making a positive contribution to the society. I feel that Illegal immigration issue should not be racial issue, I don't care what color or religion are. My concerns are with the future, can somebody answer these question for me. 1. In 30 years will the U.S have enough money to support Americans and Illegal immigrants? 2. In the future with the growing population of, I hate to say but, Mexicans will parts of the country begin to seem as if they were 3rd world as if it was Mexico? 3. What potential effects on society will illegal immigration have in 30 years? Once again immigration does not bother me, I am just looking for my way of life to be preserved and the U.S to thrive, now if America being to suffer that changes everything.

I think the economy of Mexico create the entire problem, they can not create jobs, Government system is so corrupted, I do not know how high the level of corruption go. Now some American employer can use cheap labor and became abuser, because they can. People can leave their country without knowing where the end of the road leads them to. So who we will blame for the problem, Employer who hire illegal Immigrant, Illegal Immigrant by itself or Mexico Government. I blame US Government, why have to leave an open border, no control the flood of Illegal Immigrant, every year we have to pay a lot of money for Education, medical Expense, while we do not have enough money to train Border patrol. Beside those problem other matter rising as drugs and even National security. If we need normal labor, we can open up more Legal Immigration to file up what we need. That way no more abusive employer takes advantage of Illegal worker and we call for Human right violation. They do because they can. The matter only solve one by one, secure our border, heavy penalty for any employer hiring undocumented worker (50,000 per person), we do not need to do anything to undocumented worker, problem will solve by itself, no hiring, no work, no undocumented worker. How those employer can abuse any human if they are scare to hire them and if they hire, they will not do any harm, because if they do, they will be the one get more abuse from INS.

To Steve - that was an excellent post... That was an excellent post. The research and legal precedents clearly address the root of the problem - The Employers. Not only are they responsible for the appalling living conditions and human rights violations they are in clear violation of the law. While it is not cost effective and often difficult to prosecute an undocumented alien in our country prosecution of these employers on a large scale by the various State Attorney Generals would definitely make an difference in this situation. It is documented that they not only knowingly hire these workers without proper documentation but there have also been cases prosecuted in both the U.S. and Mexico in which employers pay fees to the "coyotes" to help bring these workers into the U.S. My major concern is the human rights violations which are ongoing and abhorrent. If a strong movement by citizen groups were to pressure the respective Attorneys General to prosecute under RICO statutes there would be change. As I posted before, without jobs, the workers have no reason to come and you would see marked change in the numbers entering the U.S. illegally.

Three Components of a RICO Claim To bring a valid civil and criminal RICO claim, a plaintiff must plead three elements: "(1) the defendant's violation of ?1962 [the section of the RICO Act that lists prohibited activities, which acts include violations of certain parts of the INA ed.], (2) an injury to the plaintiff's business or property, and (3) causation of the injury by the defendant's violation."11 Predicate Offenses. RICO allows private plaintiffs to seek compensation from any citizen or entity that causes injury to his business or property by engaging in a pattern of specific criminal acts, called predicate offenses.12 As mentioned, certain violations of the INA serve as predicate offenses, and are defined by the RICO statute as racketeering activity.13 A violation of Section 1962 of RICO exists when a defendant engages in a "pattern of racketeering activity," which is defined generally as "at least two acts of racketeering activity." The INA clearly prohibits the hiring of illegal aliens, stating "[a]ny person who, during any 12-month period, knowingly hires for employment at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that the individuals are aliens described in subparagraph (B) shall be fined?or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both."14 Thus, any company or person that knowingly hires, within any 12-month period, at least ten illegal aliens, commits a criminal violation of the INA, and is liable under RICO. This is the provision that is applicable in the recent class actions brought by Howard Foster, as well as in FILE's developing case. The primary hurdle to establishing illegal hiring as a predicate act is the knowledge requirement. That is, the defendant must have knowledge that the persons hired are illegal aliens. Mr. Foster is attempting to overcome this hurdle by subpoenaing employment records to determine whether the new employees used valid Social Security numbers. If the Social Security numbers were invalid and unverified by the employer, then a jury may conclude that the employer had knowledge that it was hiring illegally satisfying the knowledge requirement necessary to establish illegal hiring as a predicate act under RICO. In Mendoza v. Zirkle Fruit, Olivia Mendoza, the Washington fruit worker, and her fellow employees alleged that their employers "knowingly hired at least 50 undocumented workers per year as part of a scheme to depress employee wages."15 If proven, this allegation would satisfy the predicate offense requirements. Another predicate act that would make an employer liable under RICO is encouraging or inducing "an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law."16 The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals has specifically interpreted this provision to apply to actions that encourage illegal aliens already in the United States to remain or that induce further illegal immigration.17 The Fourth Circuit held that "?encouraging' is not limited to bringing in, transporting or concealing illegal aliens. Rather, 'encouraging' relates to actions taken to convince the illegal alien to come to this country or to stay in this country."18 The Court held that a range of activities would meet this definition fertile ground for a good plaintiff attorney. One way to encourage illegal immigration is to accept foreign-issued identification documents, such as the "matricula consular" card issued by the Mexican government, that are only needed by illegal aliens. Mexican consulate offices in the United States issue the cards to Mexican nationals living here, without regard to the immigration status of the recipients. Since all legal immigrants and foreign visitors have access to legitimate U.S.-issued identification, such as a passport with a visa stamp or a green card, only illegal aliens have need to rely on the matricula card to establish identity. Acceptance of such a card as valid U.S. identification would certainly facilitate the entry of illegal aliens into American society, and any bank, municipality, or other entity that accepts the card, knowingly provides benefits such as the ability to open bank accounts or access public services to illegal aliens usually reserved solely for US citizens or legal residents. Though there is no court opinion yet that speaks directly to this new issue, it is not unreasonable to argue that such a practice could be found to encourage illegal aliens already in the United States to remain. Acceptance of the matricula card also induces further immigration because those contemplating illegal entry will be more likely to do so given the added benefits they can hope to obtain with a matricula card once inside the United States. Thus, acceptance of the matricula for financial gain may serve as a predicate act under RICO. If an entity, for financial gain, accepts the matricula on more than one occasion, it engages in a pattern of racketeering activity in violation of ?1962 of the RICO Act. Other violations of the INA may also serve as predicate acts. While the previously mentioned acts employing illegal aliens ands encouraging illegal immigration are the only ones discussed in this article, this should not be construed as providing an exhaustive list of possible predicate acts. The INA also makes it unlawful to smuggle, transport, or harbor illegal aliens. If an entity gained financially from these unlawful actions and another person or business was injured as a result, that person or business may also be able to bring suit under RICO. Only time will tell just how comprehensive the RICO Act will prove to be in punishing those who violate U.S. immigration law. Injury Suffered by the Plaintiff. In addition to establishing that the defendant has committed a predicate offense, the plaintiff must also show proof of injury. "Under RICO, ?any person injured in his business or property by reason of a violation of section 1962 of this chapter may sue therefore in any appropriate United States district court' for civil damages. 18 U.S.C. ?1964(c)."19 In Mendoza, the group of employees that brought the suit claimed that they suffered injury to their property in the form of lost wages. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that this allegation was sufficient to establish the injury element of the RICO claim.20 In Commercial Cleaning, the group of competitor cleaning companies that brought the suit alleged that they lost lucrative cleaning contracts that were awarded to the defendant. In fact, Commercial Cleaning lost a contract to the defendant that it had successfully performed for over a year. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals held that the alleged injury was sufficient to meet this element.21 Another plaintiff that may be able to show injury is the competitor of a financial corporation that accepts the matricula consular or other foreign-issued identification card to open a bank account or engage in other financial services activity. By accepting the card in violation of the INA, the bank or other entity gains a competitive advantage similar to the defendant in Commercial Cleaning. The bank, for example, would unlawfully gain additional account holders, strengthening its competitive position by providing it with additional resources to invest in loans. This unlawful activity would injure competitor banks in a similar way that the plaintiff companies were injured in Commercial Cleaning. The law-abiding competitor banks would potentially lose loan customers because the bank acting unlawfully may be able to provide better loan terms or otherwise gain a competitive advantage due to its strengthened financial position. Again, this would clearly injure the business capabilities of the competitors and give potential plaintiffs a valid claim under RICO against the offending entities. Knowing that they could be held criminally and civilly liable for such a practice, many businesses might reconsider the practice of accepting matricula consular cards in the future. Causation. The third element of a RICO claim causation has been the most challenging for plaintiffs looking for redress for injuries suffered due to violations of immigration law. In fact, the district courts that dismissed the previously mentioned cases did so based on lack of causation. This element requires that the predicate act committed by the defendant must have caused the injury to the plaintiff. The test used to assess causation was established by the U.S. Supreme Court in Holmes v. Securities Investor Protection Corp.22 "Holmes described this proximate cause requirement as requiring a direct relation between the injury asserted and the injurious conduct alleged.'"23 This "direct relation" test requires the court to assess three factors: "(1) whether there are more direct victims of the alleged violation who can be counted on to vindicate the law; (2) whether it will be difficult to ascertain the amount of damages attributable to the violation; and (3) whether allowing recovery for indirect injuries would force the court to adopt complicated rules apportioning damages among plaintiffs removed at different levels of injury to obviate the risk of multiple recoveries."24 The U.S. District Court for the District of Connecticut applied this "direct relation" test in Commercial Cleaning v. Colin Service Systems. As mentioned, Commercial Cleaning sued on behalf of a group of office cleaning companies that competed with the defendant. Commercial Cleaning alleged that it lost cleaning contracts because Colin could provide lower bids as a result of Colin's employment of illegal aliens. By hiring illegal aliens, the plaintiff alleged, Colin was able to cut labor costs since it did not have to pay federal taxes for those employees and since it could pay the illegal aliens less than that which legal workers were entitled to, and would demand. After applying the "direct relation" test, the court held that causation was not established.25 The court held the plaintiff lacked standing to sue under RICO, and dismissed the case,26 reasoning that multiple factors besides the alleged illegal hiring scheme could have caused the injury to the plaintiffs, that damages would be difficult to determine, and that the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), not the plaintiffs, had the responsibility to punish the defendant.27 On appeal, however, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals refuted these conclusions. While the Second Circuit agreed that multiple factors could have contributed to Commercial Cleaning's loss of contracts, it found that the plaintiff may be able to prove that the loss was due to Colin's illegal hiring scheme, and so should be given an opportunity to do so.28 The Court stated that "[w]here, as here, the parties have bid against each other, the difference between the lowest and second lowest bid is readily discoverable. If Commercial can prove that but for Colin's lower wage costs attributable to its illegal hiring scheme, Commercial would have won the contract and would have earned a profit on it, it will have shown a proximately caused injury, compensable under RICO."29 The Second Circuit also disagreed with the district court's conclusion that damages would be difficult to apportion. The Court clarified that this factor relates only to the risk of multiple liability where compensation is paid both to those directly injured by the defendant's illegal activity, called first-tier plaintiffs, and those derivatively injured, called second-tier plaintiffs. The concern of the Supreme Court in Holmes, the Second Circuit explained, "was that, if damages are paid both to first tier plaintiffs?and to second tier plaintiffs?then the payment of damages to the first tier plaintiffs would cure the harm to the second tier plaintiffs, and the payment of damages to the latter category would involve double compensation."30 However, there is no risk of double compensation in this case. "Commercial and its fellow class members are not alleging an injury that was derivative of injury to others. Commercial does not seek to recover based on ?the misfortunes visited upon a third person by the defendant's acts.'"31 Thus, the concern of the district court that damages would be difficult to apportion was unfounded. The Second Circuit further disagreed with the district court, stating that Commercial Cleaning and its fellow class members were the proper entities to bring suit. Colin Systems had argued, and the district court had agreed, that the INS was the proper entity to bring suit against Colin Systems. The appellate court found this argument illogical. As the Second Circuit explained, if the fact that a government entity has a right to bring a suit means that private entities are precluded from suing, then there would be no private right of action under RICO because all predicate offenses under RICO expose the violator to government prosecution. Since there is a recognized private right of action under RICO, the district court's conclusion cannot be maintained.32 A similar sequence of events occurred in the case of Mendoza v. Zirkle Fruit. Mendoza sued her employer, alleging that her wages were suppressed as a result of her employer's hiring of illegal aliens. The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Washington dismissed the case, holding that Mendoza and her fellow class members lacked standing under RICO to bring suit.33 As in Commercial Cleaning, the district court in Mendoza applied the "direct relation" test and determined that the hiring of illegal aliens was not the proximate cause of the plaintiff's injury.34 While the district court did agree with Mendoza that she was the proper victim to bring suit because she did suffer a direct injury, the court disagreed with Mendoza as to the other two factors. The court held that the plaintiff would not be able to "concretely establish the degree to which their wages have been affected by the defendants' alleged violations" due to the multitude of factors that could contribute to the lower wages.35 The court stated that it would be "a daunting task" to sift through all these factors and determine the damages attributable to the employer's hiring of illegal aliens. The court thus held that Mendoza lacked standing under RICO, and dismissed her claim. However, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, like its counterpart in the Second Circuit, reversed the dismissal of the RICO claim.36 The Ninth Circuit did agree with the district court's conclusion that Mendoza and her fellow class members were the proper victims to bring suit. "[T]aking the allegations in the complaint as true, we are unable to discern a more direct victim of the illegal conduct. The documented employees here do not complain of a passed-on harm. They allege that the scheme had the purpose and direct result of depressing the wages paid to them by the growers."37 However, the Ninth Circuit disagreed with the other findings of the district court. First, the Ninth Circuit stated that the district court improperly dismissed based on the mere fact that factors other than the alleged illegal hiring scheme could have caused the depression of wages. "[I]t is inappropriate at this stage to substitute speculation for the complaint's allegations of causation?the workers must be allowed to make their case through presentation of evidence, including experts who will testify about the labor market, the geographic market, and the effects of the illegal scheme? For now, it is sufficient that the employees have alleged market power ? they must not be put to the test to prove this allegation at the pleading stage."38 The court noted specific portions of the complaint that strengthened the plaintiff's case the allegation that "the growers singularly have the ability to define wages in this labor market" and allegations that spelled out "a broad conspiracy causing direct harm to the workers." With these allegations included in the complaint, the court held that the plaintiff class had stated a valid claim, and that the plaintiffs should have the opportunity to prove their allegations at trial. The Ninth Circuit also disagreed that damages would be difficult to calculate. "That wages would be lower if, as alleged, the growers relied on a workforce consisting largely of undocumented workers, is a claim at least plausible enough to survive a motion to dismiss, whatever difficulty might arise in establishing how much lower the wages would be."39 Thus, the Ninth Circuit was not persuaded that the possible difficulty of calculating damages was enough of a reason to dismiss an otherwise valid claim. As a result of these conclusions, the Ninth Circuit reinstated the RICO claim and remanded the case.40 A third RICO case currently in the courts is Trollinger v. Tyson Foods. The facts of Trollinger are very similar to those in Mendoza ? a class of employees sued their employer for conspiring to depress their wages by hiring illegal aliens. The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee dismissed the case for failure to state a claim.41 In reaching its conclusion, the district court relied on arguments similar to those made by the district courts in Commercial Cleaning and Mendoza. In fact, the district court used the opinion from Mendoza, which of course was later reversed, to support its holding. The court applied the "direct relation" test and stated that even though the plaintiffs alleged a direct injury, "the conclusion that Tyson's hiring of alleged illegal aliens depressed the plaintiffs' wages would require sheer speculation."42 However, this is the exact argument that the Ninth Circuit in Mendoza stated was improper "it is inappropriate at this stage to substitute speculation for the complaint's allegations of causation."43 An additional factor noted by the district court that is unique to Trollinger is that a union that negotiated a collective bargaining agreement, which set the wage rate, represented the plaintiffs. The court reasoned, "As the wage rates were the product of collective bargaining, plaintiffs cannot demonstrate that those rates were ultimately depressed by the presence of alleged illegal aliens in the work force."44 However, the presence of this collective bargaining agreement will likely be seen as merely another factor which could affect wage rates, rather than the sole factor, and so the plaintiffs will likely be given the opportunity to prove that the agreement itself was affected by the employer's hiring of illegal aliens. It is reasonable to believe that the employer, knowing that it could and would hire illegal aliens at a lower wage rate, offered less to its legal employees during the negotiations surrounding the collective bargaining agreement. Thus, the hiring of illegal aliens would still be a cause of depressed wages. The Future of RICO & Immigration Law With the aforementioned decisions, all of which became final in the last two years, the RICO Act has become one of the most important tools in the private enforcement of U.S. immigration law. Pioneered by Mr. Foster and embraced by FILE and others, the use of RICO in the realm of immigration law promises to have broad implications for private entities. One likely result that would follow if the plaintiffs in the discussed suits succeed on their claims is that the hiring of illegal aliens will be seriously curtailed. The RICO Act sets severe penalties for defendants found guilty of violating its provisions. A successful plaintiff is entitled to treble damages, which means threefold the actual injury suffered, plus costs and reasonable attorney's fees.45 Additionally, the court can order the defendant to divest itself of any interest in any enterprise and to refrain from engaging in any commercial activity or making commercial investment. The court can also order the "dissolution or reorganization of any enterprise."46 In short, the losing defendant in a RICO case can lose his or her business, be forced to provide high levels of compensation to the plaintiff, and even be prohibited from engaging in future business activities. Once businesses realize just how devastating these RICO penalties can be, they will find it prudent to resist the urge to hire illegal aliens. Thus, the first successful RICO claim against an employer for hiring illegal aliens will likely send a strong signal to corporate America that immigration laws must be respected precisely what Congress intended when it included INA violations in the RICO Act. Additionally, the RICO provision regarding the unlawful encouragement of illegal immigration could justify a suit against a private entity, such as a bank, that accepts foreign-issued identification cards that are only needed by illegal aliens. One example of this, of course, is the matricula consular issued by the Mexican consulates in the United States. Since both the supporters of the matricula and those who oppose its acceptance agree that only illegal aliens have need to rely on the card, acceptance of the card knowingly encourages illegal immigration. Some large U.S. financial corporations currently accept the matricula as primary or secondary ID for the purpose of opening bank accounts in the United States for illegal aliens. An illegal alien with a U.S. bank account, in which he or she may deposit illegally acquired funds, and out of which he or she may pay local rent, local utility bills, and send money abroad, is more likely to remain illegally in the United States. In other words, he or she is encouraged to remain illegally in the United States ? such encouragement being a violation of Federal law. When such a violation is done for the purpose of financial gain, as in the case of the financial corporations engaged in the practice, it is more than simply a violation of immigration law ? it is racketeering. Also, those contemplating entering the United States illegally will be further encouraged to do so because of the added benefits they can obtain once they enter. Thus, it is reasonable to say that acceptance of the matricula is a violation of the INA and a predicate offense under RICO. With this predicate offense established, a bank that competes with the one accepting the card would only have to plead the other elements of a RICO claim injury and causation ? in order to survive a motion to dismiss and bring the case to trial. The plaintiff bank will likely be able to plead these elements. As mentioned in the discussion of the injury element above, the injury to the plaintiff bank would be lost market share and competitive disadvantage, leaving causation as the only remaining obstacle to receiving compensation for damages. Under the "direct relation" test, the plaintiff will be able to prove causation. First, the plaintiff bank would be the direct victim of the defendant bank's illegal activity, similar to the direct injury suffered by Commercial Cleaning at the hands of Colin Service Systems. Second, it will not be difficult to ascertain the damages attributable to the unlawful acceptance of the matricula. Regulations issued by the U.S. Treasury Department require banks to record the type of document used by an account applicant. Thus, the defendant would have records indicating how many accounts were issued on the basis of the matricula alone. Calculations, relatively simple for financial professionals, could then be made to determine the level of business the defendant obtained by its unlawful activity and the impact that that unlawfully gained business had on the market. Third, there is no risk of multiple liabilities due to the presence of second-tier plaintiffs. The plaintiff bank, a first-tier plaintiff, will likely be the only plaintiff with standing to sue since it is the only entity injured by the defendant. Though multiple banks may sue the defendant, all of these banks will be first-tier plaintiffs, so this last factor is not of any concern. Thus, banks accepting the matricula face the real possibility of RICO liability. Beyond illegal hiring and acceptance of foreign-issued identification cards, only time will tell just how much of an impact the inclusion of INA violations in the RICO statute will have on immigration law, corporate practice, and public policy. What is clear is that Howard Foster and others following his lead are blazing a new legal path armed with a powerful tool ? RICO ? that is sure to have a profound effect on the way immigration laws are enforced in this country. Part of the legislative intent of the RICO laws in general was to afford private citizens a remedy for lawbreaking when authorities normally charged with such enforcement became derelict in their duties. For example, in a town in which political corruption and racketeering activity have combined to the detriment of law-abiding citizens and the rule of law, the RICO Act was intended to provide private citizens the ability to initiate court action to compel enforcement and respect for the law. The inclusion of INA violations as RICO predicate acts in the 1996 immigration reform act was an attempt by Congress to provide private citizens with recourse in the face of widespread disregard for immigration laws. Now, citizens and businesses are beginning to avail themselves of this powerful new tool, and, if the intent of Congress bears fruit, the results could represent a drastic change in immigration law enforcement in the United States, based on private interest as opposed to government enforcement. By providing a strong incentive for employers and businesses to stop engaging in illegal hiring and the encouragement of illegal immigration for financial gain, there is hope to significantly reduce illegal immigration in the United States simply by working through the U.S. courts. Endnotes 1 18 U.S.C. ??1961-1968 2 18 U.S.C. ?1961(1)(F) 3 18 U.S.C. ?1962 4 8 U.S.C. ?1324 5 Commercial Cleaning Services v. Colin Service Systems, 271 F.3d 374 (2nd Cir. 2001). 6 Id.

I find it necessary to respond to your comments Steph, although they are somewhat ill informed. You asked "Why don't we have things printed in polish, korean, german and italian as well as spanish? Why because people from korea, poland, germany and italy want to be american and learn english." In response to this what official government materials you may see printed in only "Spanish" reflect the minority population in your area. Officially, as an example, under the Federal Voting Rights Act - "Whenever any state or political subdivision subject to the prohibition of subsection (b) of this section provides any registration or voting notices, forms, instructions, assistance or other materials or information relating to the electoral process, including ballots, it shall provide them in the language of the applicable minority group, as well as the English language." Yes, I know undocumented aliens cannot vote. My point is that unbeknownst to you the Federal goverment requires states to provide material in the language of the specific minority, not only Spanish. This does not only apply to voting, in many states drivers license testing material etc. are provided in multiple languages. "Every other nationality that comes here adapts to living in America, learns English" - If they have learned English so proficiently, why is it necessary they have this material in multiple languages? You believe I hate the U.S. It only shows you know nothing of me, as would be expected. I live in Europe because I was transferred here in support of the U.S. Army, on official orders, by my employer AAFES. I, along with many proud Americans support our troops directly rather than give lip service from afar. I volunteered to serve my country just after Vietnam. I served 30 years in the U.S. Military and saw combat in Operation Desert Storm. While not a "war" in the sens of Vietnam I served as a medic on the front lines with the U.S. Marine Corps. I was with some of the first units to enter Kuwait and we were under live fire. I have voluntarily deployed with my employer to work serving our troops in Iraq two times in four years. You know nothing about patriotism and service - you cannot even begin to accuse me of hatred of my country. It is evident you know NOTHING about Europe to make the statements you do. Germany, as an example, has the strictest laws against the n**i party in the world, as you would expect. Even possessing a copy of "Mein Kampf" or displaying a n**i symbol is illegal and results in strict prosecution. If you don't believe the n**i party is alive and well in America you are sadly ill informed. Racism, neo n**i groups, white supremacists are all have large pockets of support in America. You also have no understanding of the cost and the obstacles faced by those who do desire to become American citizens - and a large number of the undocumented aliens want exactly that. Witness the amnesty offered several years ago to those that had lived and worked in the states for a long period of time. Immigration offices were swamped with applicants. None of this is germaine to the purpose of this thread. This thread is primarily to expose the inhumane treatment and violation of basic human rights visited on these workers by their employers. It does not matter if they are here legally or not, this treatment is appalling and the fact that it continues is criminal. The best solution I have seen was posted by one of your fellow "deport them all" believers: "Charge these employers with a FELONY which includes a minimum 1 year in prison and a $100,000 fine per violation OR charge them under RICO and just close and sieze the business." The employers are the ones that deserve the punishment, not the workers. If the government were to take this stance you would quickly see the number of undocumented aliens dry up quickly. Without employers willing to hire them, there would be no reason for them to come.

Every other nationality that comes here adapts to living in America, learns English and wants to become american. But Mexicans want to ruin the United States. Why don't we have things printed in polish, korean, german and italian as well as spanish? Why because people from korea, poland, germany and italy want to be american and learn english. AND THESE ILLEGAL LAW BREAKING NO RESPECT FOR THE US CRIMINALS SHOULD NEVER BE PUT AHEAD OF THE GOOD PEOPLE TRYING TO GET HERE LEGALLY. We aren't asking these people to get rid of their culture. They can speak spanish and everything in their homes. Just like immigrants from everywhere else did. Many of my friends of those other nationalities speak english as well as the other language. My family came over here legally from Ireland and Luxemborg in the early part of the 20th century. Until Mexico opens it's borders they should not expect us to let all these people in. And aafes I'm glad that since you hate the US so much you live in Europe. Amazing someone who hates this country so much and is hiding in the most racist continent there is namely Europe where nazism is alive and well again wants to give some back to mexico. YOu want real racism? Go to Europe where Nazism is alive and well. Tell Mexico to straighten out their own country instead of expecting us to take their rejects.

okay you people say that the illegal immigrants do the "dirty work" for america,so lets think about that.stated in the paragraph above is a list of several ways that the illegals help the economy and society.i'm glad that the illegals are here,"helping themselves" by providing for their families and helping with the "dirty jobs". now here is my suggestion for all of the illegals no matter what country they come from.i feel that "all" immigrants who are seeking u.s. citizenship should have to serve in the u.s. armed forces for a term of four years prior to becoming a citizen.let the immigrants fight for this country,just like our forefathers did!!!!then there would be no people mistreated for being known as an illegal alien,because that term would fail to exist. thanks for the opp.

I am in Europe. I work for AAFES in Europe as is evident by my username here. I am no less an American for living in Europe, own two homes in America, vote in every election, pay taxes and am just as concerned about political issues as any American living in the continental U.S. In response to the statement about these undocumented workers being the enemy and invaders; it would help to be informed before you make statements such as this. In reality this was their land and just as the land was taken from native Americans by force the same was done to Mexico. After unilaterally annexing Texas in 1845, despite massive protests, the U.S. president sent troops 100 miles into what previously was Mexican land. When the Mexicans retaliated, the U.S. declared war on the pretext that Americans had been attacked on American soil. When it ended, the U.S. took 51% of Mexico's land, including California, where the discovery of gold had been kept secret from Mexican negotiators. At least 100,000 Mexicans and an additional 200,000 indigenous people lived on those lands. This was no less than imperialism under the guise of "democracy". I find it odd that we now feel justified to react to other countries committing the same act when we have done exactly what we insist they are doing wrong. Witness our response to the communist threat from the former USSR, North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the list goes on. We reacted with unfettered rejection of one sovereign nation unilaterally invading and annexing the territory of another. EXACTLY what the U.S. did in 1845 to Mexico. It doesn't suprise me that you hear movements to take back land that was stolen from them. I found this statement in Wikipedia in regard to the Texas Revolution, quite interesting: "By this time, the trickle of illegal immigrants entering Texas had become a flood. Santa Anna believed that the influx of immigrants to Texas was part of a plot by the U.S. to take over the region. In 1834, due to perceived troubles within the Mexican government, Santa Anna went through a process of dissolving state legislatures, disarming state militias, and abolishing the Constitution of 1824. These actions triggered outrage throughout the nation of Mexico. The country then became divided between Centralists, who backed Santa Anna's dictatorship, and Federalists, who wanted the Constitution of 1824 re-instituted. Santa Anna then ordered all illegal immigrants out of Texas. Seems the Texans, soon to be Americans were the illegals. However, reclamation of these lands is not a new movement. The movement to reclaim a land taken from the hispanics goes back decades. The movement gains media attention for a while and then dies down, never truly going away, but rather no longer a focus for the media. The entire history of the United States is a history of illegal migration onto other people's territories. From the 17th to the 19th centuries, the pattern was consistent: ?settlers? moved onto Indian lands, and claimed them as their own; governments either supported them from the outset or justified the invasions post-facto; ethnic cleansing and genocide of the native inhabitants followed, at the hands either of colonists or of state agents. Dozens if not hundreds of treaties with Indian nations were torn up or ignored. The result, combined with the Mexican invasions and seizures was the process of expansion that had completed the occupation of the continental US by the turn of the 20th century. To opponents of ?illegal immigration? today, I would say: remember that every one of you lives on stolen land. And be glad that the modern generation of ?illegal immigrants? is interested only in working, living peacefully, and legalizing their status?not in ethnic cleansing or genocide against you. The rise in undocumented workers is primarily a result of NAFTA. This treaty allowed something that was heretofore not allowed in Mexico. Foreign agricultural corporations were allowed to establish in Mexico. Effectively putting thousands of small farmers out of business, creating a further impoverished work force with few options but to travel North to find work and support their families. In my opinion this is nothing more than posturing by the GOP to raise an issue in an election year which they have historically drawn voter support for. What better way than to foster racial hatred and bigotry taking the focus of the voters off of the real issues such as the Iraq war, high gasoline prices, government monitoring of private citizens phone records etc. Profiling all undocumented workers into categories as criminals is simply ridiculous. The majority of these workers are hard working, honest people who want to do nothing more than support their families. God knows, it isn't like our country is hurting for resources or opportunity, although we don't make wise use of what we have. We waste more food on a daily basis than some countries have to feed their population. Why is it so bad to have these workers here, give a little of what we have when needed and expect their employers to provide them with decent, humane living conditions.

Steph is absolutely right. There is an active movement by these illegals NOT to assimilate. They have no intention of EVER learning English OR paying taxes. They want to claim this land as thier own. Or reclaim as they put it. It is an invasion, NOT immigration. They are here to send money home, and to suck up every government benefit they can get. I have personally seen several communities in AZ,OK,TX that every sign is in Spanish. I felt like I was in Mexico! Illegal immigration is no more than an enemy invasion.

Europe has their own problems. Muslims are damaging it the same way Mexicans are damaging the US. A once beautiful continent is being overrun over there. One of the more ridiculous things I've heard some places is about hispanic baseball players. A. They are here on work visas. I used to work for the Tribune Co. who owns the Cubs. All the players who are from roreign countries have to go through paperwork. B. Ironically they are doing jobs Americans would love to have but aren't as good at. C. Most of the hispanic players in baseball are not Mexicans. The Cubs for example are all either Dominican or Venezuelan (those who are hispanic) Mexico has a closed door policy. There are millions trying to escape Hitler's clone Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. You know it's bad there if Mexico is better. But Mesico won't let them in.

Europe has their own problems. Muslims are damaging it the same way Mexicans are damaging the US. A once beautiful continent is being overrun over there. One of the more ridiculous things I've heard some places is about hispanic baseball players. A. They are here on work visas. I used to work for the Tribune Co. who owns the Cubs. All the players who are from roreign countries have to go through paperwork. B. Ironically they are doing jobs Americans would love to have but aren't as good at. C. Most of the hispanic players in baseball are not Mexicans. The Cubs for example are all either Dominican or Venezuelan (those who are hispanic) Mexico has a closed door policy. There are millions trying to escape Hitler's clone Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. You know it's bad there if Mexico is better. But Mesico won't let them in.

Europe has their own problems. Muslims are damaging it the same way Mexicans are damaging the US. A once beautiful continent is being overrun over there. One of the more ridiculous things I've heard some places is about hispanic baseball players. A. They are here on work visas. I used to work for the Tribune Co. who owns the Cubs. All the players who are from roreign countries have to go through paperwork. B. Ironically they are doing jobs Americans would love to have but aren't as good at. C. Most of the hispanic players in baseball are not Mexicans. The Cubs for example are all either Dominican or Venezuelan (those who are hispanic) Mexico has a closed door policy. There are millions trying to escape Hitler's clone Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. You know it's bad there if Mexico is better. But Mesico won't let them in.

Europe has their own problems. Muslims are damaging it the same way Mexicans are damaging the US. A once beautiful continent is being overrun over there. One of the more ridiculous things I've heard some places is about hispanic baseball players. A. They are here on work visas. I used to work for the Tribune Co. who owns the Cubs. All the players who are from roreign countries have to go through paperwork. B. Ironically they are doing jobs Americans would love to have but aren't as good at. C. Most of the hispanic players in baseball are not Mexicans. The Cubs for example are all either Dominican or Venezuelan (those who are hispanic) Mexico has a closed door policy. There are millions trying to escape Hitler's clone Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. You know it's bad there if Mexico is better. But Mesico won't let them in.

First every illegal in this country is a criminal. Secondly they do not want to become American. They want us to be Mexico. They don't want to learn English. They don't want to follow our laws. Every other immigrant group came here to be American. This is the truth of their so called paying taxes. They steal SSNs and work under them and claim enough exemptions so no taxes come out. They collect and cash the checks every week. The actual holder of the SSN gets a surprise from the IRS because the IRS gets a report that says they earned the money and BINGO owe tax on it. This happened to me. Luckily the subhuman useless piece of filth who did this did this work in California while I lived in Illinois.

Aafes, Yes, I am against the employers who hire the illegals, even more than the illegals breaking our laws. We don't need fences or more INS agents. All we need to do is 2 things. 1). Charge these employers with a FELONY which includes a minimum 1 year in prison and a $100,000 fine per violation OR charge them under RICO and just close and sieze the business. 2). Take away all services to illegals. Must show legal citizenship to get ANY gov't assistance or use any public facility such as a school, library, etc. AND....FYI..Labor cost is only a small part of the total cost of goods and services. Higher labor cost causing prices to go up is just big business propaganda. Prices go up due to greed and mismanagement and a predetermined need for a certain profit margin. And...Aafes...You claim to be in Europe...but speak as though you are in the U.S....?????

You can find a study that says anything you are looking for. Yes, the increase in produce prices may be minimal for produce grown in the U.S., in the best scenario. The more likely scenario is farms going completely out of business. "A crackdown in illegal immigration in 2004 caused a shortage of workers needed to bring in the lettuce crop in the Western United States, said Powell, which he said caused a $1 billion loss for the industry as many growers had to leave their fields unharvested. "To hire Americans to do it, they would have had to raise wages so far, it wouldn't have been worth it for them," said Powell at the Independent Institute. "It caused less of a loss to leave the crop to rot." When the farms go out of business two things occur. Demand exceeds supply, farmers now realize not only are they paying more for labor costs but now the market will bear a higher price. The produce processors as a result pay a higher price for produce, the resulting wholesale cost to grocers and restaurants is higher - the resulting consumer cost will be higher. To combat the high prices and meet demand more produce will have to be imported from outside the U.S. This will have a negative effect on the labor market - i.e. less need to higher legal immigrants or citizens who are farm workers, funds for the purchase leaving our economy and going to other countries. Say and believe what you wish about illegal immigrants but they contribute to our economy - be it keeping prices low to spending their money in retail businesses in our country. And it is not only the cost or loss of cheap labor for the produce industry. These workers also work in the housing industry, service industries and touris industry. Loss of the workers would have a direct impact on these industries, increasing prices and directly contributing to inflation in our economy. We have enough trouble with our economy. We deal with rapidly rising record deficits. Yet if we were to deport all of them as you contend should be done: "A new study by a liberal Washington think tank puts the cost of forcibly removing most of the nation's estimated 10 million illegal immigrants at $41 billion a year, a sum that exceeds the annual budget of the Department of Homeland Security. The study, "Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment," scheduled for release today by the Center for American Progress, is billed by its authors as the first-ever estimate of costs associated with arresting, detaining, prosecuting and removing immigrants who have entered the United States illegally or overstayed their visas. The total cost would be $206 billion to $230 billion over five years, depending on how many of the immigrants leave voluntarily, according to the study." Where do you suppose we will get the money to pay for this....oh wait, the government will have to raise taxes and cut funding to the services it provides legal citizens.

It will cost the average household in this country a whole huge, whopping, enormous, painful, DOLLAR per month. The average family of 4 spends about $7/month on produce. It will end up costing $8. Yippeedoo! Saying you spend more than that is meaningless. It's like the clowns who claim a seatbelt would have killed them in that last wreck. Averages are used for a reason. Some buy more, some buy less. Here's a thought. A little more than 145 years ago, some people thought the world would end if farm workers got paid at all. It didn't then, and it won't now. Throw out the ILLEGALS, and enforce our laws.

Steve, what about the laws these employers are breaking - from employing illegals, not collecting or paying taxes on their wages, no workers' compensation not to mention HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. Why aren't you on your soap box about these criminals? They are citizens, know the law, intentionally ignore it in the interest of their pockets yet they walk free. You know, if you got enough people like you to push hard enough and have all these employers charged, prosecuted and fined very heavily or punished by jail time don't you suppose they would stop offering jobs to illegals. Oh, then guess what, no jobs, no reason to illegally immigrate here. The employers are the demand, the workers the supply, simple economics. You stated: "Our country is built entirely of immigrants that came here LEGALLY." I speak with absolute certainty that the true native Americans that were residing in this country would dispute this with you at length. The Europeans were not invited to America, certainly weren't welcome, and with no qualms whatsoever slaughtered the native people and stole their land and established colonies - THAT is the root of our country - somehow I believe that it was ILLEGAL for them to immigrate here. "However, these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are CRIMINALS" Yes, they are in violation of the law. It is not a crime of violence, but a crime of need. Not one of us can say we have never violated the law in some form or fashion. Taking office supplies from work, even a simle pen; rolling through a stop sign; Verbally assaulting someone when we were angry; falsifying documents to get a job or loan even if by simply "leaving out little details that were asked"......I could go on and on. By your reasoning, we are all criminals. "These illegals HAVE NO RIGHTS!" First of all, everyone has human rights, in the case of the subject of this thread those are what are being blatantly violated. From the U.N.International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - Signed and ratified by the U.S. Government. Article 26 All persons are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Additionally almost every Supreme Court Decision regarding undocumented aliens references this: The Fourteenth Amendment provides, [N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Each opinion explains that undocumented aliens within a state are within its jurisdiction, therefore they are extended these rights. It seems that The Supreme Court disagrees with you. "EVERYONE coming to this country to live and/or work, MUST learn the English language." Yes, this is a requirement of citizenship, to be proficient in the English language. However, English is NOT the official language of the U.S. There is no official language. It seems that there is a chance you may find yourself having to learn Spanish. If you are among those who push for an official language, and this ever becomes a hotly charged political issue you may find yourself suprised. Hispanics accounted for half the 2.9 million U.S. population growth from 2003 to 2004 and now constitute one-seventh of all people in the United States. The Hispanic growth rate for the 12 months starting July 2003 was 3.6 percent compared with the overall population growth of 1 percent. So, if this ever becomes an issue with the voters, and the Hispanic population growth continues, you could very easily find "Spanish" as the national language. But not to worry, when they are all deported as you and others would like to see happen, enjoy buying lettuce at the supermarket for $8.00 a head.

Steve, what about the laws these employers are breaking - from employing illegals, not collecting or paying taxes on their wages, no workers' compensation not to mention HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. Why aren't you on your soap box about these criminals? They are citizens, know the law, intentionally ignore it in the interest of their pockets yet they walk free. You know, if you got enough people like you to push hard enough and have all these employers charged, prosecuted and fined very heavily or punished by jail time don't you suppose they would stop offering jobs to illegals. Oh, then guess what, no jobs, no reason to illegally immigrate here. The employers are the demand, the workers the supply, simple economics. You stated: "Our country is built entirely of immigrants that came here LEGALLY." I speak with absolute certainty that the true native Americans that were residing in this country would dispute this with you at length. The Europeans were not invited to America, certainly weren't welcome, and with no qualms whatsoever slaughtered the native people and stole their land and established colonies - THAT is the root of our country - somehow I believe that it was ILLEGAL for them to immigrate here. "However, these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are CRIMINALS" Yes, they are in violation of the law. It is not a crime of violence, but a crime of need. Not one of us can say we have never violated the law in some form or fashion. Taking office supplies from work, even a simle pen; rolling through a stop sign; Verbally assaulting someone when we were angry; falsifying documents to get a job or loan even if by simply "leaving out little details that were asked"......I could go on and on. By your reasoning, we are all criminals. "These illegals HAVE NO RIGHTS!" First of all, everyone has human rights, in the case of the subject of this thread those are what are being blatantly violated. From the U.N.International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - Signed and ratified by the U.S. Government. Article 26 All persons are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Additionally almost every Supreme Court Decision regarding undocumented aliens references this: The Fourteenth Amendment provides, [N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Each opinion explains that undocumented aliens within a state are within its jurisdiction, therefore they are extended these rights. It seems that The Supreme Court disagrees with you. "EVERYONE coming to this country to live and/or work, MUST learn the English language." Yes, this is a requirement of citizenship, to be proficient in the English language. However, English is NOT the official language of the U.S. There is no official language. It seems that there is a chance you may find yourself having to learn Spanish. If you are among those who push for an official language, and this ever becomes a hotly charged political issue you may find yourself suprised. Hispanics accounted for half the 2.9 million U.S. population growth from 2003 to 2004 and now constitute one-seventh of all people in the United States. The Hispanic growth rate for the 12 months starting July 2003 was 3.6 percent compared with the overall population growth of 1 percent. So, if this ever becomes an issue with the voters, and the Hispanic population growth continues, you could very easily find "Spanish" as the national language. But not to worry, when they are all deported as you and others would like to see happen, enjoy buying lettuce at the supermarket for $8.00 a head.

Steve, what about the laws these employers are breaking - from employing illegals, not collecting or paying taxes on their wages, no workers' compensation not to mention HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS. Why aren't you on your soap box about these criminals? They are citizens, know the law, intentionally ignore it in the interest of their pockets yet they walk free. You know, if you got enough people like you to push hard enough and have all these employers charged, prosecuted and fined very heavily or punished by jail time don't you suppose they would stop offering jobs to illegals. Oh, then guess what, no jobs, no reason to illegally immigrate here. The employers are the demand, the workers the supply, simple economics. You stated: "Our country is built entirely of immigrants that came here LEGALLY." I speak with absolute certainty that the true native Americans that were residing in this country would dispute this with you at length. The Europeans were not invited to America, certainly weren't welcome, and with no qualms whatsoever slaughtered the native people and stole their land and established colonies - THAT is the root of our country - somehow I believe that it was ILLEGAL for them to immigrate here. "However, these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are CRIMINALS" Yes, they are in violation of the law. It is not a crime of violence, but a crime of need. Not one of us can say we have never violated the law in some form or fashion. Taking office supplies from work, even a simle pen; rolling through a stop sign; Verbally assaulting someone when we were angry; falsifying documents to get a job or loan even if by simply "leaving out little details that were asked"......I could go on and on. By your reasoning, we are all criminals. "These illegals HAVE NO RIGHTS!" First of all, everyone has human rights, in the case of the subject of this thread those are what are being blatantly violated. From the U.N.International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - Signed and ratified by the U.S. Government. Article 26 All persons are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Additionally almost every Supreme Court Decision regarding undocumented aliens references this: The Fourteenth Amendment provides, [N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Each opinion explains that undocumented aliens within a state are within its jurisdiction, therefore they are extended these rights. It seems that The Supreme Court disagrees with you. "EVERYONE coming to this country to live and/or work, MUST learn the English language." Yes, this is a requirement of citizenship, to be proficient in the English language. However, English is NOT the official language of the U.S. There is no official language. It seems that there is a chance you may find yourself having to learn Spanish. If you are among those who push for an official language, and this ever becomes a hotly charged political issue you may find yourself suprised. Hispanics accounted for half the 2.9 million U.S. population growth from 2003 to 2004 and now constitute one-seventh of all people in the United States. The Hispanic growth rate for the 12 months starting July 2003 was 3.6 percent compared with the overall population growth of 1 percent. So, if this ever becomes an issue with the voters, and the Hispanic population growth continues, you could very easily find "Spanish" as the national language. But not to worry, when they are all deported as you and others would like to see happen, enjoy buying lettuce at the supermarket for $8.00 a head.

I suggest people look at the principal issue here. EVERYTHING else is secondary, and IRRELEVANT! [ LEGAL vs. ILLEGAL ]. I have NO PROBLEM with LEGAL IMMIGRATION. Our country is built entirely of immigrants that came here LEGALLY. I have NO PROBLEM with Mexicans. Mexicans do have a good work ethic and usually better family values than many blacks or whites. However, these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are CRIMINALS. That is the ONLY issue here. They have total disregard for our laws, and REFUSE to learn English. I should not have to learn another language to accomodate anyone that wants to come to the country I defended to live and work. You see, I EARNED my opinion. I fought for this country AND for the RIGHT to preserve our FREEDOMS and our HERITAGE. The RIGHT to keep ENGLISH as the primary language. Someone who comes here illegally slaps the faces of those immigrants who came here LEGALLY. These illegals HAVE NO RIGHTS! How can you enter a country illegally, then sit back and demand things? This blows my mind! If these ILLEGALS don't like the working conditions and living conditions they have, they are FREE to leave! Why don't they file a labor claim? Why don't they file a discrimination claim? IT is because they are ILLEGAL and DO NOT have the right to complain. That comes with LEGAL CITIZENSHIP! EVERYONE coming to this country to live and/or work, MUST learn the English language. Learn it or leave. That IS a requirement of law to LEGALLY immigrate to the U.S.

A land of opportunity, liberty and freedom. We should be flattered that so many from throughout the world wish to come to our country for a chance at a better life. After all, with few exceptions almost every American has his/her origins in an immigrant - all who came here for a better life. In many instances these immigrants suffered bigotry, poverty, hatred and were shunned by those who considered themselves "real Americans". After almost 230 years have we learned NOTHING??? I spent a very long time reading the posts here, and was appalled by the ignorance and bigotry displayed by many posters. The majority of illegal immigrants live in abject poverty. The majority come here to work, earn what is to them a decent wage and sacrifice personal needs and necessities to support their families. Those who come or later bring their families generally have a better tradition and understanding of the nuclear family than most Americans have at this point in our history. I lived and worked for many years in the Southwest only a few miles from the border. During a time when unemployment was at record highs it was not the least uncommon to see long lines at the unemployment office daily - huge suprise almost exclusively caucasion. Living close to the border most employers are much more cognizant about not hiring illegals as enforcement is more focused in those areas. Yet, have the unemployment office send a "real American" to a farmer to harvest lettuce, pick oranges etc. and almost without fail they did not last the day. These immigrant workers, on the other hand, often work 12 hour plus days in searing heat, with no proper "facilities" and are often paid based on the amount of produce they pick. Yes, their labor is cheaper - but few "Americans" will even attempt to do it long term. This cheap labor is the reason you and I pay reasonable prices for produce in our country. The living conditions are in almost all cases horrendous - witness by the photos posted earlier in this thread. These workers do not choose to live in this manner often they live in these conditions under the fear of an employer who threatens them with INS authorities, which they live in dire fear of. Yes, some immigrants receive welfare - so what. There are as many if not more cases of welfare fraud committed by American citizens as well - shall we deport all of them too. I do not believe we should simply "open" the borders. It may however suprise some of you to know that there are several large stretches of the border in remote areas that have NO fence whatsoever. I do agree with the proposed guest wroker program that is being considered. My concern about the borders is much more attuned to terrorists than immigrant workers. If there is any increased focus it should be in that area. Two quotes this subject brings to mind: "Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in matters of conscience, direct their course to this happy country as their last asylum." - Sam Adams in Philadelphia, August 1, 1776. And one of my favorites: "All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian" - Pat Paulsen, comedian

I don't care if the Mexicans are here, just as long as they pay taxes like everyone else, don't commit crime, and don't live off of the taxpayers. If they want to have 5 kids every 3 years, fine. I just don't think we should have to pay for that. They also need to work on getting their citizenship. If they are unwilling to do that, I think the solution is to send them back on a bananna boat and brand them like cattle so they can be spotted at the immigration checkpoints. This problem of Mexicans living off of the system is really getting out of hand. They come over illegally and then make a bunch of kids that they can't support. I am so sick and tired of suuporting some one's else's kids through my tax dollars. It is really outrageous now. Some of these women just keep making babies and because the child is born in the United States, the child gets to immigrate right away and be eligible for Welfare and certain Social Security benefits. In Illinois, the Mexican families know that they will get about $450.00 a month for each child until the kid turns 18. So they just continue to have unprotected sex, with each mexican woman producing about 5 kids each. Then, they are able to draw about $2250.00 a month, living off of the government for the next 18 years. I am so sick of this $hit!! These Mexican women producing all these babies just keep making them and drawing more and more cash out of the government, raising the tax. In addition, when they see someone driving a nice car, they know that person has good insurance. On several occasions, they have driven right in front of me with their stationwagons full of kids and slammed on the breaks. They do this so they can all get paid for supposed injuries that never happened. Then, when the cops show up, they speak in Mexican to them so they can't understand or fill out a report. Then, they call your insurance company trying to commit insurance fraud. Its such crap. I live in a nice neighborhood with a lake, and all they are constantly on private property having Mexican parties. In one of their most recent parties, they ruined the newly planted grass at the lake,sprayed graffetti on the park benches, left colt 45 and corona beer cans and bottles everywhere, and saw two of them having sex in plain view. They both looked like they hadn't showered in a month, it was totally disgusting!! You can't even go to a grocery store now to buy fresh fruit and vegetables. In my latest visit, I saw this mexican women eating the strawberries right from a package. She ate half of them and then put the rest back on the shelf!! That is so nasty.... Besides, they smell bad too. In this town, they smell really bad. I don't even want them around my car - they already pryed one hub cap away from it. I am so sick of this $hit, I wish they would just leave after all.............

"EDitor's Comment to the above racist..." That was your headline ED. That came immediately after my posting. Now, tell me how I misread it? Wanting ALL immigrants in this country to come here LEGALLY is not racist. It's called making them ALL obey the law. This is supposed to be a nation of laws. What the ILLEGALS are doing is an actual invasion. They call themselves reconquistadors(reconquerors), and have vowed to take back Ca, Tx, NM, Az, and Co. Immigrant is a legal name for someone who came here LEGALLY. Invader is the proper name for someone who doesn't. And it is FACT, that Mexican Law requires arrest and prosecution of anyone in their country ILLEGALLY. They consider it a felony, with a jail sentence of up to two years. After that, they throw you out of the country. Mexico has a problem with it's own Southern border. I love the work ethic the Hispanics have. In many cases, it is far superior to that of Blacks and Whites. This is NOT a race issue. It is a LAW issue.

Ed, I love your site. However, there are a few points you are forgetting. I'm 2nd generation, the son of an immigrant to the US. However, my family entered the US after learning English, taking (and passing) required medical testing, and taking an oath. This was a very important day in my family. Now, contrast the pride of coming here as a citizen and "breaking in". I noticed out of all the pictures you posted, that none of them showed the trail of garbage, soiled clothes, empty gallons of water bottles, "sewage", debris, wrappers etc that people who break in leave behind. Not to mention, crime DOES happen by people who are desperate - however, the victim has the unfortunate position of living close to the border. If that was YOUR land, would you be so quick to say that there is no negative effect? Ed said: Illegal workers come here primarily because these US citizens offer work which targets illegal workers. I guarantee that the problem would be solved if no one had work for illegals, but that is impractical also. Well, that sounds like a fine reason why, if we "need" extra work done, we can increase the LEGAL immigration numbers. However, when you have people coming over "at their own will, whenever they feel like it", then you will see the value of high paying jobs go to someone who is willing to work for half. You wrote a great book, Ed. What happens when some author wants to write the same book sitting next to you on the Barnes and Noble bookshelf selling at 1/2 the price because he was willing to write it for $200.00 cash? Now apply that to EVERY industry, where you have a new class of people (that don't even legally belong!) who are willing to do the work for HALF of what ANY citizen would expect to get paid? This goes into your next point directly: Ed said: ..that American kids and the young adults to the age of 35 or so, in general are not interested (for the most part) in coming to work all the time. Now, while I find that as a terrible generalization, (and quite possibly on equal level of racism as has been attributed to people here), I must object. I am within that age, have absolutely NO silver spoon in my mouth, have worked since I was 13, and I do NOT believe that is a fair assessment of my peers. Ed, I just can't believe that you'd use the opinion of a fast food manager to compliment the opinion you have otherwise formed, especially based on "American Kids" in general. I'm an American "kid", and I'd happily pick strawberries for 25 bucks an hour, with benefits and a pension. That of course will never happen because THAT job will NEVER IMPROVE, because of all the illegals willing to lowball the American citizens. You are right about illegals wanting to feed their family. I would also like to feed mine - and since I am a LEGAL immigrant, I think the country my father picked and pledged allegiance to should have priority over those who break in. Illegals (of any race) have also introduced TB back into the southwest at an unprecidented rate. If you think that is a good idea for a fast food restaurant, I'd be happy to take Sonic off my list, knowing that they hire illegals to work over my food. Ed said: There are way more white Americans driving around with out insurance than there are Mexicans. And more than likely there are Americans driving with out insurance than there are illegal Mexicans.. that would be more than 11 million. Right, but the difference is that we can't just disappear to another country "out of jurisdiction" at our whim. I can't go back to where I came from as a citizen and hide in poverty. They can. And they DO. What would EVER cause an illegal to purchase auto insurance, Ed? What reason would they EVER have to get insurance? That's 11 million people who screw the economy, the insurance industry, and break the law, even after breaking the law to even reside here. The obvious answer to the debate on weather or not we need illegals should be answered by adjusting the amount of LEGAL immigrants we allow each year to compensate for the jobs we can fill. Blaming white kids and long-term residents is a terrible stereotype. Otherwise, you make the process that my father proudly went through worthless. Why bother pledging to follow the laws, have pride, take an oath, register as an American? All he would have needed was a boat, and a bunch of sympathizers. Don't take the pride out of becoming an American, Ed. We can do better than this. Nick - Hollywood, California U.S.A. _________________________ _________________________ EDitor's Response With all due respect youre looking at this thru rose colored glasses Congratulations for finding the dream we all hold so dear. Your response was very comprehensive, but failed to include some very important points. You failed to identify whether or not your parents came to the US legally. You also did not mention which country they came from. Therefore, until you provide more information, I will have to assume that your argument is a non-sequitar. If they came from Mexico and came legally, that means they had some political influence and does not directly respond to the issues that were raised. It was already pointed out that the Mexican government requires their citizens to own land in order to request a visa. You and I are approaching this issue for two different levels. I am describing the situation as it is and how we can resolve the problems. You are idealizing the situation, describing the way things CAN be and then hope things will get better. I am sure you would be glad to pick strawberries or cabbage for $25 and hour, but practically speaking.... would you be willing to pay $10 a quart for strawberries? None of us would and the "gastarbeiter" solution makes the best sense for our economic situation, as proposed by the McCain Kennedy Bill. I appreciate you concern but the problems you surface associated with the illegal immigrant situation are mostly created by those land owners you feel are offended. If those land owners were to provide proper sanitaiton and lodging, then there would likely not be as many of the problems you mention. These land owners are the ones who are hiring (and making a huge profit off of) the very people you fell are the problem. That just makes no sense. There can be no pride in being American unless were are GOOD. ED Magedson - Founder

Why stop there? Call me Hitler. That's the usual next step. In case you missed it ED, it was the Democrats that wanted to continue slavery. A Republican freed them. It was the Democrats that fought against the Civil Rights Acts of 1964. It was the Republicans who passed it. It has always been the Democrats who have impeded the progress of minorities in this country, and the Republicans who have fought the good fight to get them what they have. Get your facts straight, and stop with the "racist" crap. That dog don't hunt.

by ED Magedson - Founder Rip-off Report Vincente Fox, and the other 2% European elitist exploiters of the masses, are on the same side as anyone who would punish these people for doing what anyone of us would do if we were pushed into a corner and saw no other options. These Rabid Republicans, like J.D. Hayworth, who, with his thick neck and no brain policies, not-so-cleverly disguise a national security policy that is nothing more than a behind-the-back handshake with Fox to oppress the Mexican masses. For instance, Hayworth espouses a policy of "Enforcement First," but has no interest in marginalizing voters by throwing them in jail for hiring illegal employees. Hayworth has major construction firms that build houses at record-breaking prices on the backs of illegal employees. I will bet this guy would readily take a rebate if the Arizona legislature demanded it, but Hayworth would not support it (despite the fact that he is not in the AZ legislature) but because he gets support from these builders [So much for campaign finance reform.] What this shows is the intellectual dishonesty of Hayworth and those of his ilk. Illegal workers come here primarily because these US citizens offer work which targets illegal workers. I guarantee that the problem would be solved if no one had work for illegals, but that is impractical also. One might say that there are a whole heap of criminals that come over the borders to commit crime here. I would agree, but those people are either those who support the illegal trade of human beings, like the "coyotes" or they are part of the institutionalized criminal force, which are the Mexican apparatchiks of Fox, et al. Read the paper, we are also being invaded by the Mexican Army which operates security for the drug trade into the US. Since this simple fellow above doesn't understand the scope of the problem, I will illucidate him and the J.D. Hayworth ilk. I would include Jon Kyle, who proposes that we send them all back and have them apply properly. All these simpletons fail to think globally and instead view the world from their typical myopic position. Do you know the process and the requirements for applying for a visa to the US? Let's make it easier and ask about Mexico only. These elected officials should have understood the position better by now. [If they were contractors for the government, hired to troubleshoot and resolve these problems, they would have been terminated long ago.] Let me tell you what Congress should have already researched and told the US public long ago. In order to get a visa to come to the US, Mexicans have to have a passport and you have to own land to secure your return. The problem is that this is the number one reason why illegals come here in the first place. Unlike the US, one cannot make payments over time to purchase real property. One way to purchase - - - cash on the barrellhead. Payment in Full. This is the Catch 22 that Mexican citizens face and it was designed to secure the wealth of a very few. I agree that we should close the borders. It will send a message to the people and in the face of such a hopeless situation there will necessarily be another Mexican Revolution and I, for one, would not blame them a bit. If this were the 50's, 60's, or 70's.. all you people complaining about illegals today would be the same people complaining about BLACKS, (African - Americans) years ago. Undoubtedly, you are the same type that employs derogatory epithets to dehumanize these people, much like you did with the Blacks. You all have the same racist mentality. Remember, our government let them come here! They are part of our economy! Just because one Hispanic did not have insurance, (more than likely not even Mexican as you claim, there is a huge exodus from Central America because of policies similar to Mexico discussed previously. ) they should all be shipped back to Mexico? There are way more white Americans driving around with out insurance than there are Mexicans. And more than likely there are Americans driving with out insurance than there are illegal Mexicans.. that would be more than 11 million. Anyone caught driving without insurance should go to jail no matter who they are and pay stiff fines. Here again, is another industry that has grown out of the illegal immigrant situation. Insurance companies and agencies in Arizona sell "Quote Cards." Law enforcement have not yet caught on and when stopped by a cop, they produce these cards and it looks like they have a policy, but all it really means is that the person paid for a quote. In some cases, these people were actually tricked into believing they were truly purchasing insurance. All the money (court fines) paid should go into a fund to pay people that get hit by anyone with out insurance, even if they are a racist like those complaining on this site and those morons you see on TV yelling at the Hispanic Protesters. Our research shows that the "redneck" population is just as likely to be in possession of one of these "Quote Cards" meant to fool the police; but our corrupt system of government will just allow disreputable companies to take the money, and in fact confiscate some themselves . You know, like all the court fines citizens pay to the courts. LAZY AMERICANS DO NOT AND WILL NOT DO THEIR WORK SEX DRUGS & ROCKIN ROLL IS MORE IMPORTANT, NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER Americans simply are not motivated to work like illegal immigrants. They work for the survival of their families and love America for the opportunities that do not exist in their country. I know for a fact that illegals (from my personal experience, I have personally interviewed Mexicans and Guatemalans) are not being paid much less or the same in many cases. That is correct. The one who is saving the money and ripping off our system and Americans is many of these builders and farm owners and other BIG American businesses. But.. What lazy Americans want to do the work the Hispanics are doing anyway?..and after interviewing many businesses here in Arizona and from my own personal experience over the years, your average American, white, legal Americanized Spanish, Irish, Jewish, Italiano's Germans are not as reliable and as hard working when it comes to many jobs. Why? ..they are spoiled, and are very unreliable. Just ask any restaurant owner or business that you know uses Hispanics for much of their labor.. Last week, I went to a Sonic drive-thru and they got my order wrong, again. The person who was at the window taking the orders spoke span-English and I could hardly understand them. Yes, this pisses me off I then went inside and the area supervisor was there. Now, most of you out there would not expect me to ask this question but I stated to this guy.. that I am an advocate for Mexicans and support them working and staying here in the USA.. but, I have to ask, ..why is it you cannot higher perfectly speaking Americans to work at this place?! Maybe you would not get the orders wrong so many times! He stated like other businesses have and I concur, ..that American kids and the young adults to the age of 35 or so, in general are not interested (for the most part) in coming to work all the time. This area supervisor said that he always gets excuses as to why they don't show up, and more importantly they are not as hard working as illegal immigrants!.. I then said, well, you pay them much less don't you? ..he said NO! I pay them the same, the going rate for these jobs are around $7.00 an hour to start.. He was emphatic that, the American workers have too many problems, they are on their cell phones during the work day, text messaging, and just don't do the work as well as the Hispanics. He further stated, "I can always count on them [the illegals] coming to work.." But, this EDitor, the founder of this website already knew all this. I taped our conversation and will include those sound bites here shortly, so you can here this conversation for yourself. I told him I could not disagree with him, only that he needed to put someone taking the orders at the drive thru needed to speak perfect English, someone that can understand those special orders. ED Magedson Founder, Rip-off Report.com & Author of www.ripoffrevenge.com [email protected] badbusinessbureau.com www.ripoffreport.com Don't let them get away with it. Make sure they make the Rip-off Report! We are not lawyers. We are not a collection agency. We are Consumer Advocates. ...the victims' advocate WE are Civil and Human Rights Activists We are a Worldwide Consumer Reporting News Agency ...by consumers, for consumers

"Rip-off Report would like to expose this owner, but, if we did, these hard working people would more than likely be deported." GOOD! They are here ILLEGALLY! They are an affront to the millions upon millions who came here LEGALLY! "I believe all illegals should be registered (I dont care as what)" How about as CRIMINALS, since they are here ILLEGALLY! You do understand that if you go to Mexico ILLEGALLY, you will be imprisoned immediately upon being discovered don't you? It is a felony there, and they don't play games. "No citizenship till they can speak English.." They don't want to be Americans. Didn't you notice the protests? They were waving Mexican flags. This is an invasion, nothing else. They even say outright they are "taking back their land". "All illegal aliens should be able to stay. BUT, we need to properly guard our boarders." HUH?! This makes less sense than anything else. You admit they are here ILLEGALLY, and by doing so, are CRIMINALS. You say they should be able to stay here ILLEGALLY, but then turn around and say we should guard the border. Why? If it's okay for them to pour across it, why bother guarding it? The whole point of guarding a border is to stop the ILLEGAL practice of crossing. "Any landlord or employer providing substandard housing to illegals should be a serious crime. Any employer not paying the illegals at the end of the day or week should be prosecuted. A common practice by many unscrupulous businesses here in Arizona, and I am sure across the USA... Rip-off Report deals with these types of complaints on a weekly basis... Rip-off Report assists these immigrants being taken advantage of, and as a free service, helps them get their money." Okay, we may have some middle ground here. Any employer who employs an ILLEGAL should have his assets siezed, and go to jail. this one thing alone, would eliminate the entire problem. If the ILLEGALS cannot get work, they will go home. The first time an employer loses everything, the rest will fall in line.

Darlene I'll go with you. In addition to what you want I would also like 1. Free medical, free dental, free vision care... 2. Food stamps. 3. Discounts on my utilities. 4. Higher paying jobs because I speak English. 5. Live in a brand new 6 bedroom house and only pay $28 a mo. The balance will be paid by the govt. 6. Take taxes from everyone so I can live freely. 7. On holidays have organizations give me presents, freebies for my family. Illegal means illegal. If I robbed a store and got caught I would go to jail. Why? Robbing a store is illegal. If coming over the border is illegal then it is illegal and they must be sent back. Although my background is Spanish, Mexican, German and Basque what I truly am is... A proud American and businesswoman.

I would like to address the Mexicans who read this response. May 1st!! If the CAUCASIONS would like a day without Mexicans: DO NOT GO TO WORK. DO NOT BUY FOOD. DO NOT BUY GAS. DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE ECONOMY FOR THE UNITED STATES. I would like to see one day where someone could not go to a restaurant and get food. Or someone's lawn is not mowed. Maybe hotel rooms are not cleaned. No construction going on. It's an experiment, let's try it. If everything goes smoothly, then I will vote to send all the Mexicans back. But if it is chaos, WHAT THE HELL ARE WE FIGHTING FOR? Some guy who got hit by an uninsured Mexican? I got hit two months ago by a uninsured caucasion. There are good people, bad people and in- between people all over this planet. But under God we are all only people.

I am one of the many illegal aliens living here in the USA. I have worked this land for this owner and his relatives for more than 20 years. Some days the owner, for no reason yells and screams at us, you all need to move! Get out.! Sometimes we live in fear not knowing from one day to the next what our employer will say. I stay because life in Mexico is not too much better, but I can send money to my family to help them to buy food. There is no work in our village. It's no coincidence that our Government has not properly guarded our boarders... WE LET THEM IN, on purpose, ..our governments fault and now we want to turn on them? It has been a known FACT that illegal aliens work on our roads nationwide, they are employed directly or indirectly by our government. They are the main force today building new homes here in Arizona and in many other states. Politicians use illegal aliens as house keepers, nannies, to the gardener. What the hell are our politicians talking about to just send them all back? ! Our politicians should be going after the businesses that hire them, paying cash off the books and screwing the state and Federal government! oops! that won't work. Theses are the very business that contribute to their political campaigns! So now, to make things look good, they will selectively start coming down on those businesses that are not good ol' boys.. The owners of this property and others like it should be punished and charged with felonies for human rights violations. What ever laws are made by our politicians for illegal aliens, ... still, the way these people are living should be a crime. The owners should be prosecuted. These still photo's do not tell the whole story. Rip-off Report would like to expose this owner, but, if we did, these hard working people would more than likely be deported. I believe all illegals should be registered (I dont care as what) ..finger print them, tattoo them, get hair follicles, blood samples, photo ID them, make sure they have a valid address and they must notify with in 10 days of a new address With in 10 days, give information on who they work for.. If anyone employees a day laborer, the employer should fill out forms excepting responsibility and amount of money paid etc.. then the day laborer should send their work schedule to a new division of the State Department of labor. Illegals should pay fees with paperwork sent in along with proper taxes. No citizenship till they can speak English.. Think of all the Americans that can be employed doing all this paper work, bringing new found money to our government and to new American case workers monitoring these workers. All illegal aliens should be able to stay. BUT, we need to properly guard our boarders. Any landlord or employer providing substandard housing to illegals should be a serious crime. Any employer not paying the illegals at the end of the day or week should be prosecuted. A common practice by many unscrupulous businesses here in Arizona, and I am sure across the USA... Rip-off Report deals with these types of complaints on a weekly basis... Rip-off Report assists these immigrants being taken advantage of, and as a free service, helps them get their money. ED Magedson - Founder www.ripoffreport.com Author of Rip-off Revenge www.ripoffREVENGE.com

April 12, 2006 Dear President Bush: I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this. Because I only expect to be in Mexico long enough for my children to get a quality free education (or until they want to have children), I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following: 1. Free medical care for my entire family. 2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not. 3. All government forms need to be printed in English. 4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers. 5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history. 6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down. 7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch. 8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services. 9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws. 10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English. 11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals. 12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws. 13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy. I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P. Sincerely, An American Tax-Paying Citizen

I don't know about other states, but I know how things are in California. I hear about how the illegal immigrants are so mistreated in this state. I hear about how no one will work the way these people do. I hear about the way they just want to support their families. I have lived in California my entire life. I have worked in California my entire life. I have worked the fields in Central California. I know what is going on. I personally knew Cesar Chavez. I can only say "Spare me the BULL****. Let me tell you how illegal immigrants in California are really treated. When illegal immigrants come into this state, they are encouraged to apply for MediCal, WIC, Public Assistance, unemployment, etc. They all have social security numbers when they get here or shortly thereafter. Our hospitals have a policy of not turning anyone away. I worked the emergency room of a local hospital, so I know this is true. The illegals go to the ER and although they have a wallet full of credit cards, they don't pay a penny. Some of our schools in Central California have to special order textbooks in English if they get a non Spanish speaking student. Over 85% of everything in Central California is written in Spanish. I had to prove I could speak and understand Spanish before I could work in the ER. California voters passed a bill which required California to have English as the official language. Does everyone really think only non-hispanic voted for this? Only illegals will work the fields? Let me tell you something. You give me minimum wage, MediCal, WIC, Commodities, public assistance, free school breakfast and lunch for my kids and Section 8 housing, and I will gladly go back to the fields. California originally belonged to Native Americans. Native Americans who had to apply for citizenship to be recognized. Native Americans who were sent to Reservations to live. Native Americans who have had to beg for every cent the government ever gave them. Native Americans whose homes revert back to government property after 30 years. So don't tell me how badly illegal immigrants are mistreated. If you don't like it here, leave. Go back to Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Syria. If I was truly mistreated the way you claim to be, I would not stay. Cesar Chavez wanted to work. He didn't want to be catered to. He wanted to work. He didn't want a handout. He wanted to work. He didn't want sympathy. He simply wanted to work.

Illegal aliens are by definition lawbreakers and must be deported. And yes, the employers of the illegal aliens should be fined as well. It is pathetic that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports the amnesty program, serving as a "shill" for the employers hiring illegal aliens. If these cheapskate employers would pay a decent wage, American workers would do the tough jobs that illegal aliens are doing now. And as a Catholic, I find it outrageous that Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles supports letting the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and receiving full benefits. The Pope should demote the Cardinal back to a assistant parish priest.

Illegal aliens are by definition lawbreakers and must be deported. And yes, the employers of the illegal aliens should be fined as well. It is pathetic that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports the amnesty program, serving as a "shill" for the employers hiring illegal aliens. If these cheapskate employers would pay a decent wage, American workers would do the tough jobs that illegal aliens are doing now. And as a Catholic, I find it outrageous that Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles supports letting the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and receiving full benefits. The Pope should demote the Cardinal back to a assistant parish priest.

Illegal aliens are by definition lawbreakers and must be deported. And yes, the employers of the illegal aliens should be fined as well. It is pathetic that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports the amnesty program, serving as a "shill" for the employers hiring illegal aliens. If these cheapskate employers would pay a decent wage, American workers would do the tough jobs that illegal aliens are doing now. And as a Catholic, I find it outrageous that Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles supports letting the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and receiving full benefits. The Pope should demote the Cardinal back to a assistant parish priest.

Illegal aliens are by definition lawbreakers and must be deported. And yes, the employers of the illegal aliens should be fined as well. It is pathetic that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports the amnesty program, serving as a "shill" for the employers hiring illegal aliens. If these cheapskate employers would pay a decent wage, American workers would do the tough jobs that illegal aliens are doing now. And as a Catholic, I find it outrageous that Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles supports letting the illegal aliens stay in the U.S. and receiving full benefits. The Pope should demote the Cardinal back to a assistant parish priest.

Ed, These are some of the reasons I am against ILLEGAL immigration. ILLEGAL immigration ONLY benefits big business. I don't agree with exploitation in any form....However.. Illegal immigration is the primary reason our wages and standard of living keep going down, and the reason for the explosion in health care costs. The taxpayer pays the bill. The LEGAL worker pays the price. All social services are beyond capacity, and our uninsured motorists are at a record high. I have been on this thread many times and it gets me all worked up. I feel bad for them as human beings, but I do not want them here. They are bad for our economy and our country in general. Big business can post record profits due to exploitation of illegals, and the ability to pay legal workers less, and no benefits. I want to get our country back! I don't want to be forced to learn another language to live in the country I defended.

Ed, The ONLY economy that would go bad would be the bottom line of big business. There are many more costs to our economy with illegals than without. -They dont pay taxes, but use all public services. Most of the young women are baby factories and we pay for all of them. -They NEVER have car insurance, we pay higher premiums -They enable employers to make us compete for jobs far below the living wage. -They all use our healthcare system for FREE. I can't. I could go on, but I'm sure you gat the point. But for the record, it's not just Mexicans that make up the illegal immigrant population. And, I have nothing against Mexicans. I lived in Phoenix and had all Mexican neighbors almost, and never had a problem. It isn't personal against them. And, keep in mind that that thing about them doing the jobs we won't do...blah...blah...is BS. We won't do them for $20 a day like they do, but for $10-$15 an hour we would be standing in line. And on that subject.... Wages are only a small part of the final cost of a retail product, despite the propaganda. Higher wages do not automatically translate to higher prices. That is special interest propaganda. If a business cannot afford to pay a LIVING WAGE, they are not REALLY in business anyway.

Ed, On this issue I will definately agree with you. I am in support of a program that will allow illegal immigrants who have jobs to stay in the country and be documented. I am not in favor of handing out citizenship to every one of them, as it only sets a dangerous precedent for any group wanting to enter the country, but I am in support of a compromise such as workers' visas with the opportunity to apply for citizenship at a later date. I do have a few concerns/requirements though. I would like your opinions on them: 1. Workers would have to have a "sponsor" as you mentioned. The last thing we need to do is to add to the number of jobless in the country. 2. The border should be secured. Not another rent-a-fence, and not another hundred or so underpaid border patrol agents, but a real effort to secure the border. This is a national security risk, regardless of the status of immigration. As it is currently, anyone who can enter Mexico can enter the United States. Having personally traveled to Mexico from other countries, I can tell you it is not a difficult feat to get through without being asked a single time for a passport or identification, and we weren't even trying to be sneaky. 3. There would have to be strict punishments for employers of illegal immigrants. Not just those that don't pay the immigrants, or pay them less than minimum wage, but ALL employers employing illegals. 4. There would have to be a cap on how many workers are allowed into the country. I see the need for a certain number of workers to fill jobs that would not be economically feasible to fill at the rate an anglo worker would request. On the other hand, I also studied economics for 2 years, and understand the impact of an uncontrollable flood of cheap labor on an economy. If the flow of workers is not regulated, the market WILL become so overfull with cheap labor that it will drive wages even further down from their current levels. People who believe prices would follow the downward trend are na. As much as any business owner would love to be able to staff their businesses with minimum wage workers just because they can, that does not make it a good thing for the American people. I'm all for humane treatment of immigrants, but not everyone who currently resides here legally is a snot-nosed brat who deserves to be jobless because someone will do the work for cheaper. 5. Workers wishing to stay in the country need to learn English. Suggesting this in any sort of public forum seems to automatically make you a racist in the PC days we live in. I don't think it is too much to ask for people who wish to live in this country to speak the language of this country. This is a very big issue with a lot of people opposed to most plans to allow undocumented workers to remain in the country. Arizona spends millions of dollars a year printing Spanish language forms and staffing Spanish speaking govt. workers. The notion of English being the official language in an English speaking country doesn't seem racist to me, but all to often I find myself branded as such for making the suggestion. 6. If such a measure is passed, and it becomes easier to enter the country legally, then the strictest measures should be imposed on border crossers. The vast majority of legal immigrants I have spoke to have no respect whatsoever for those who enter the country illegally. It isn't fair to those that do go through the proper channels and have a desire to work to just allow anyone and their wet dog who jumps the border to simply get tossed back over with a slap on the wrist and a lesson learned in border jumping. 7. In addition to number 6, illegal immigrants will not have the right to lawsuits in American courts. Number 3 above outlines stricter penalties for businesses employing illegal immigrants. Those businesses should also be punished for any inhumane treatment of the illegal immigrants. The immigrants should not, however, be allowed to collect big money in lawsuits. At the most, cap the damages as the difference between the wage they were paid, and the minimum wage of the United States. I am sick and tired of hearing stories such as the lawsuit that was brought against the State of Arizona years back for not having access to water for illegal immigrants that had entered the state. GIVE ME A BREAK. I do not want my government paying illegals millions of dollars because the coyote they hired is a either a jackass, stupid, or both. Hang the coyote, throw the illegals back across the border, but get rid of the crying and the multi-million dollar lawsuit that seems to always ensue. It should be noted that when I refer to illegal immigrants, I'm referring to those with an illegal status AFTER the implementation of a law that would allow reasonable accomodations to would-be immigrants wishing to enter the country to work.

EDitor's Comment Brian, you just don't get it, do you. Since they are here in the USA, they should not be allowed to be treated like animals. Punct, period. It doesn't matter what you think life is like where they came from. I thought we got over that mentality when we realized slavery was wrong. I just checked the same location this past weekend, that I reported on a number of years ago. (see the photos at the beginning of this Report) ..also new photo's below. Below you can see this builder is clearly advertising for Spanish workers. Nothing about experience here?. Wonder if they are paid on the books? All the workers walk or ride their bikes from down the street about a half a mile away from the bushes and trees they live in. These workers live in the trees you see at the very top of the page and in the areas pictured below under this bridge. Those photo's at the top of this Report were taken 3 years ago, those living quarters at the top of the page still exist today, some workers live there and work here and for other builders in the area. Many of the workers that lived in the groves also worked in the grove, now they work building the homes as these lands get sold off to builders. Once the groves are gone, and the homes are all built, these workers will be used for our car washes and other jobs Americans will never do. The bridge below is one of the better places these works can live. They do not have to worry about tarps blowing away to protect them from the rain. Local residents and the authorities know they live here. Anyone can see them walking with their groceries into the bushes and no one seems to care. It is estimated by one law enforcement officer that there are more than 400 illegals living and working in this particular area, mostly working in the Groves or building homes. According to authorities there are no problems with crime involving the illegals. A few occasional drunks have been detained for public intoxication. The illegals do not have a reputation for causing any problems according to the police officer we spoke with. Neither you, nor any politician can understand how dire their situation is unless they go and see these accommodations for themselves. Yes, illegals are still there, even a lot more of them, growing every day and they are not going away. That is the reality of the situation. Their situation is the same, with a lot more makeshift housing, if you want to call it that. Sanitation is still not available and with the drought, water is rarely available in the canals. These people depend on that water in which to bathe and wash their clothes. Now, here's the real kicker... Not only are many of them still working in the fields, and although they seem to have received a raise (from $70 to $150 a week), they are being worked harder than their American counterpart field workers; about 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Most of the people I talked with are working on new home construction in the Phoenix East Valley, which are being sold for over $400,000 just down the street from their enclave. The wages the home builders are paying these illegals is between $5 to $8 per hour, doing the same work gringos are being paid $17 to $32 per hour to accomplish. Now tell me, who is the bad guy here?! Brian, this could be you, maybe in your next life. One never knows what bad luck may be in store for any of us. Put yourself in the place of these illegals. Almost every culture advises us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. Just imagine your family is poor, no work because your country sucks and there is no assistance they can provide for you. Brian, wouldn't you do absolutely anything possible to save your loved ones from hunger and then to help them achieve their dreams? CROSSING A BORDER ILLEGALLY SEEMS PRETTY HARMLESS TO ME. CERTAINLY NOT WORTH A FELONY.. So, what is so bad about what these people are trying to do? They jump a fence or swim a river that we as Americans cannot or choose not to protect. Do you think this is by mistake? Is it because we, as Americans, are so inefficient to properly protect our borders? Or is it because our economy really depends on these unique hard workers? No matter what you want to believe, they got here and we have jobs for them because unscrupulous home builders, farmers and ranchers are greedy enough and would rather break the law to enlarge their already overpriced product margin. These unscrupulous companies do not care about the quality of the homes they are selling, using substandard materials and employing these people illegally, to do the work they are not properly trained to do. To top it off, these home builders know d**n well the Hispanic workers they are employing are not only illegal but that they are living in the trees like animals! The builders and the farmers that employ these people... they are the scum who you should decry, not the illegal immigrants, who are the victims, stuck in the middle between to governmental policies; US policy, which purports to not want them here illegally, and the Mexican policy, which encourages them to sneak over the border. By the way, Mexicans are not the only ones here, there are also a large number of Guatemalan, El Salvadorian, Ecuadorian and Costa Rican immigrants here. Most of them do not want to stay here; they just want to make enough money to buy their own land, which must be 100% paid for up front. There are many employers that do treat illegal workers properly, having them do work we all know most people, even Brian, would never do. American workers willing to take these jobs, like landscaping in 120 degree weather, would never be as reliable or as hard working as these poor illegals coming over our borders from our neighbors to the south. Is our US Government so inefficient they can't stop this? If we really wanted to stop it, we could. This has been no mistake. This is all a matter of economics for the American economy. We "allow" it because it actually is good for our economy. It keeps the price of our fruits and vegetables low. Alexander Hamilton WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN Now that we have addressed the subject of our economy, I want you to take your wallet out, Brian. Look at a $10 bill... on the front. Do you know who that man is? Yes, he is Alexander Hamilton. Do you know anything about him? He was born in Charles Town on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. He spent most of his youth in St. Croix and then snuck into the American Colony, the continental states, ILLEGALLY at age 17. He later worked hard! He not only fought the British as a soldier, but also against the brutality of slavery. He saw the inhumane treatment of African slaves in the Caribbean, and guess what? They let him stay here. He shaped the future of our American Economy to the world class economy that it is today. Many of these immigrants have the potential to be doctors, lawyers and teachers, also. They should have the chance and you should be comfortable with that. What ever happened to: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free... Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...?" SOLUTION: This is as close as this EDitor gets to agreeing with President George Bush (43). Ironically, the conscienceless Republicans are angry with him for suggesting an humane solution. I propose we give all those who are here now, 60 or 90 days to get fingerprinted and registered with some sort of social security number, and a way to prove residence. Perhaps we should require an American to agree to employ them, a sponsor if you will. That sponsorship would require those who employ these people certain minimal and HUMANE accommodations. No trees or bridges to live under. This would not give anyone citizenship until they are here, problem-free, for 10 years, paying taxes and receiving lower wages. That is a win-win situation. It is good for the economy and provides a safe means to stay in this country. Those who wish to come here to work could also be allowed on a special work visa. This also guts the immoral business of the "coyote," who smuggle humans, often endangering them. Maybe this would deter American Companies from outsourcing jobs to China, India and Indonesia. Rip-off Report assisting those less fortunate.. This EDitor and some of his volunteers work for solutions, not just complain about the problems. We talk with the workers and warn them about behaviors that may get them into trouble. We hand out fliers, printed in Spanish, warning them that some of their customs may actually land them in jail; like peeing on the side of a building or spitting or walking into the street to get work. We also tell them not to bunch up; keep to only two in a group because of the obvious excuse for the police to arrest them. UNSCRUPULOUS EMPLOYERS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ILLEGALS The next issue that needs a solution is the punishment of the unscrupulous employers. They must be forced to be fair. It only stands to reason that if they can justify breaking the law to make a living, then they will probably break other rules. In fact, this class of people are often guilty of not paying agreed upon wages, even though the labor is a steal of a deal anyway. Often, East Valley Phoenix ranchers, Farmers, landscape companies, and contractors work the illegals for a week or a month and then drop them off in the middle of nowhere, and tell them to take off and if they show up again they will call "le migre" (immigration). I, ED Magedson personally go out every week handing out flyers and counsel these workers to carry pencils and paper. They are advised to write down the times and types of labor performed, the addresses where they worked and the license plates of the vehicles that transported them. We counsel them that even though they are not here legally that it is against the law for these people not to pay them. It is theft of service. Rip-off Report offers them a free service in helping them to get their money owed, in some cases we have involved the police to hold them accountable for these crimes. Going after the companies and individuals with out the assistance of the police or the courts is defiantly quicker.. The companies realize once we contact them, if they were to go to court, it would mean treble damages for not paying their workers. In the end, Brian, these are human beings and we have a responsibility to maintain a standard of behavior that demonstrates that we are determined to uphold the rights of all people. Examine our fundamental documents which established our nation. In the Declaration of Independence it says: "...We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Brian, I added the capitalization of the word "ALL" for emphasis. It does not exclude Mexicans, Central or South Americans. It does not exclude Africans, Chinese or Jews; however, it includes everyone. The sooner we get that, the sooner we will start treating each other properly. I would suggest that anyone who does not agree with this doctrine are not truly American and should probably repatriate, not the illegal immigrants who actually subscribe to our American doctrine. Thank you, ED Magedson [email protected] badbusinessbureau.com www.ripoffreport.com We are not lawyers. We are not a collection agency. We are Consumer Advocates. ...the victims' advocate WE are Civil and Human Rights Activists We are a Nationwide Consumer Reporting News Agency ...by consumers, for consumers

EDitor's Comment Brian, you just don't get it, do you. Since they are here in the USA, they should not be allowed to be treated like animals. Punct, period. It doesn't matter what you think life is like where they came from. I thought we got over that mentality when we realized slavery was wrong. I just checked the same location this past weekend, that I reported on a number of years ago. (see the photos at the beginning of this Report) ..also new photo's below. Below you can see this builder is clearly advertising for Spanish workers. Nothing about experience here?. Wonder if they are paid on the books? All the workers walk or ride their bikes from down the street about a half a mile away from the bushes and trees they live in. These workers live in the trees you see at the very top of the page and in the areas pictured below under this bridge. Those photo's at the top of this Report were taken 3 years ago, those living quarters at the top of the page still exist today, some workers live there and work here and for other builders in the area. Many of the workers that lived in the groves also worked in the grove, now they work building the homes as these lands get sold off to builders. Once the groves are gone, and the homes are all built, these workers will be used for our car washes and other jobs Americans will never do. The bridge below is one of the better places these works can live. They do not have to worry about tarps blowing away to protect them from the rain. Local residents and the authorities know they live here. Anyone can see them walking with their groceries into the bushes and no one seems to care. It is estimated by one law enforcement officer that there are more than 400 illegals living and working in this particular area, mostly working in the Groves or building homes. According to authorities there are no problems with crime involving the illegals. A few occasional drunks have been detained for public intoxication. The illegals do not have a reputation for causing any problems according to the police officer we spoke with. Neither you, nor any politician can understand how dire their situation is unless they go and see these accommodations for themselves. Yes, illegals are still there, even a lot more of them, growing every day and they are not going away. That is the reality of the situation. Their situation is the same, with a lot more makeshift housing, if you want to call it that. Sanitation is still not available and with the drought, water is rarely available in the canals. These people depend on that water in which to bathe and wash their clothes. Now, here's the real kicker... Not only are many of them still working in the fields, and although they seem to have received a raise (from $70 to $150 a week), they are being worked harder than their American counterpart field workers; about 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Most of the people I talked with are working on new home construction in the Phoenix East Valley, which are being sold for over $400,000 just down the street from their enclave. The wages the home builders are paying these illegals is between $5 to $8 per hour, doing the same work gringos are being paid $17 to $32 per hour to accomplish. Now tell me, who is the bad guy here?! Brian, this could be you, maybe in your next life. One never knows what bad luck may be in store for any of us. Put yourself in the place of these illegals. Almost every culture advises us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. Just imagine your family is poor, no work because your country sucks and there is no assistance they can provide for you. Brian, wouldn't you do absolutely anything possible to save your loved ones from hunger and then to help them achieve their dreams? CROSSING A BORDER ILLEGALLY SEEMS PRETTY HARMLESS TO ME. CERTAINLY NOT WORTH A FELONY.. So, what is so bad about what these people are trying to do? They jump a fence or swim a river that we as Americans cannot or choose not to protect. Do you think this is by mistake? Is it because we, as Americans, are so inefficient to properly protect our borders? Or is it because our economy really depends on these unique hard workers? No matter what you want to believe, they got here and we have jobs for them because unscrupulous home builders, farmers and ranchers are greedy enough and would rather break the law to enlarge their already overpriced product margin. These unscrupulous companies do not care about the quality of the homes they are selling, using substandard materials and employing these people illegally, to do the work they are not properly trained to do. To top it off, these home builders know d**n well the Hispanic workers they are employing are not only illegal but that they are living in the trees like animals! The builders and the farmers that employ these people... they are the scum who you should decry, not the illegal immigrants, who are the victims, stuck in the middle between to governmental policies; US policy, which purports to not want them here illegally, and the Mexican policy, which encourages them to sneak over the border. By the way, Mexicans are not the only ones here, there are also a large number of Guatemalan, El Salvadorian, Ecuadorian and Costa Rican immigrants here. Most of them do not want to stay here; they just want to make enough money to buy their own land, which must be 100% paid for up front. There are many employers that do treat illegal workers properly, having them do work we all know most people, even Brian, would never do. American workers willing to take these jobs, like landscaping in 120 degree weather, would never be as reliable or as hard working as these poor illegals coming over our borders from our neighbors to the south. Is our US Government so inefficient they can't stop this? If we really wanted to stop it, we could. This has been no mistake. This is all a matter of economics for the American economy. We "allow" it because it actually is good for our economy. It keeps the price of our fruits and vegetables low. Alexander Hamilton WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN Now that we have addressed the subject of our economy, I want you to take your wallet out, Brian. Look at a $10 bill... on the front. Do you know who that man is? Yes, he is Alexander Hamilton. Do you know anything about him? He was born in Charles Town on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. He spent most of his youth in St. Croix and then snuck into the American Colony, the continental states, ILLEGALLY at age 17. He later worked hard! He not only fought the British as a soldier, but also against the brutality of slavery. He saw the inhumane treatment of African slaves in the Caribbean, and guess what? They let him stay here. He shaped the future of our American Economy to the world class economy that it is today. Many of these immigrants have the potential to be doctors, lawyers and teachers, also. They should have the chance and you should be comfortable with that. What ever happened to: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free... Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...?" SOLUTION: This is as close as this EDitor gets to agreeing with President George Bush (43). Ironically, the conscienceless Republicans are angry with him for suggesting an humane solution. I propose we give all those who are here now, 60 or 90 days to get fingerprinted and registered with some sort of social security number, and a way to prove residence. Perhaps we should require an American to agree to employ them, a sponsor if you will. That sponsorship would require those who employ these people certain minimal and HUMANE accommodations. No trees or bridges to live under. This would not give anyone citizenship until they are here, problem-free, for 10 years, paying taxes and receiving lower wages. That is a win-win situation. It is good for the economy and provides a safe means to stay in this country. Those who wish to come here to work could also be allowed on a special work visa. This also guts the immoral business of the "coyote," who smuggle humans, often endangering them. Maybe this would deter American Companies from outsourcing jobs to China, India and Indonesia. Rip-off Report assisting those less fortunate.. This EDitor and some of his volunteers work for solutions, not just complain about the problems. We talk with the workers and warn them about behaviors that may get them into trouble. We hand out fliers, printed in Spanish, warning them that some of their customs may actually land them in jail; like peeing on the side of a building or spitting or walking into the street to get work. We also tell them not to bunch up; keep to only two in a group because of the obvious excuse for the police to arrest them. UNSCRUPULOUS EMPLOYERS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ILLEGALS The next issue that needs a solution is the punishment of the unscrupulous employers. They must be forced to be fair. It only stands to reason that if they can justify breaking the law to make a living, then they will probably break other rules. In fact, this class of people are often guilty of not paying agreed upon wages, even though the labor is a steal of a deal anyway. Often, East Valley Phoenix ranchers, Farmers, landscape companies, and contractors work the illegals for a week or a month and then drop them off in the middle of nowhere, and tell them to take off and if they show up again they will call "le migre" (immigration). I, ED Magedson personally go out every week handing out flyers and counsel these workers to carry pencils and paper. They are advised to write down the times and types of labor performed, the addresses where they worked and the license plates of the vehicles that transported them. We counsel them that even though they are not here legally that it is against the law for these people not to pay them. It is theft of service. Rip-off Report offers them a free service in helping them to get their money owed, in some cases we have involved the police to hold them accountable for these crimes. Going after the companies and individuals with out the assistance of the police or the courts is defiantly quicker.. The companies realize once we contact them, if they were to go to court, it would mean treble damages for not paying their workers. In the end, Brian, these are human beings and we have a responsibility to maintain a standard of behavior that demonstrates that we are determined to uphold the rights of all people. Examine our fundamental documents which established our nation. In the Declaration of Independence it says: "...We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Brian, I added the capitalization of the word "ALL" for emphasis. It does not exclude Mexicans, Central or South Americans. It does not exclude Africans, Chinese or Jews; however, it includes everyone. The sooner we get that, the sooner we will start treating each other properly. I would suggest that anyone who does not agree with this doctrine are not truly American and should probably repatriate, not the illegal immigrants who actually subscribe to our American doctrine. Thank you, ED Magedson [email protected] badbusinessbureau.com www.ripoffreport.com We are not lawyers. We are not a collection agency. We are Consumer Advocates. ...the victims' advocate WE are Civil and Human Rights Activists We are a Nationwide Consumer Reporting News Agency ...by consumers, for consumers

EDitor's Comment Brian, you just don't get it, do you. Since they are here in the USA, they should not be allowed to be treated like animals. Punct, period. It doesn't matter what you think life is like where they came from. I thought we got over that mentality when we realized slavery was wrong. I just checked the same location this past weekend, that I reported on a number of years ago. (see the photos at the beginning of this Report) ..also new photo's below. Below you can see this builder is clearly advertising for Spanish workers. Nothing about experience here?. Wonder if they are paid on the books? All the workers walk or ride their bikes from down the street about a half a mile away from the bushes and trees they live in. These workers live in the trees you see at the very top of the page and in the areas pictured below under this bridge. Those photo's at the top of this Report were taken 3 years ago, those living quarters at the top of the page still exist today, some workers live there and work here and for other builders in the area. Many of the workers that lived in the groves also worked in the grove, now they work building the homes as these lands get sold off to builders. Once the groves are gone, and the homes are all built, these workers will be used for our car washes and other jobs Americans will never do. The bridge below is one of the better places these works can live. They do not have to worry about tarps blowing away to protect them from the rain. Local residents and the authorities know they live here. Anyone can see them walking with their groceries into the bushes and no one seems to care. It is estimated by one law enforcement officer that there are more than 400 illegals living and working in this particular area, mostly working in the Groves or building homes. According to authorities there are no problems with crime involving the illegals. A few occasional drunks have been detained for public intoxication. The illegals do not have a reputation for causing any problems according to the police officer we spoke with. Neither you, nor any politician can understand how dire their situation is unless they go and see these accommodations for themselves. Yes, illegals are still there, even a lot more of them, growing every day and they are not going away. That is the reality of the situation. Their situation is the same, with a lot more makeshift housing, if you want to call it that. Sanitation is still not available and with the drought, water is rarely available in the canals. These people depend on that water in which to bathe and wash their clothes. Now, here's the real kicker... Not only are many of them still working in the fields, and although they seem to have received a raise (from $70 to $150 a week), they are being worked harder than their American counterpart field workers; about 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Most of the people I talked with are working on new home construction in the Phoenix East Valley, which are being sold for over $400,000 just down the street from their enclave. The wages the home builders are paying these illegals is between $5 to $8 per hour, doing the same work gringos are being paid $17 to $32 per hour to accomplish. Now tell me, who is the bad guy here?! Brian, this could be you, maybe in your next life. One never knows what bad luck may be in store for any of us. Put yourself in the place of these illegals. Almost every culture advises us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. Just imagine your family is poor, no work because your country sucks and there is no assistance they can provide for you. Brian, wouldn't you do absolutely anything possible to save your loved ones from hunger and then to help them achieve their dreams? CROSSING A BORDER ILLEGALLY SEEMS PRETTY HARMLESS TO ME. CERTAINLY NOT WORTH A FELONY.. So, what is so bad about what these people are trying to do? They jump a fence or swim a river that we as Americans cannot or choose not to protect. Do you think this is by mistake? Is it because we, as Americans, are so inefficient to properly protect our borders? Or is it because our economy really depends on these unique hard workers? No matter what you want to believe, they got here and we have jobs for them because unscrupulous home builders, farmers and ranchers are greedy enough and would rather break the law to enlarge their already overpriced product margin. These unscrupulous companies do not care about the quality of the homes they are selling, using substandard materials and employing these people illegally, to do the work they are not properly trained to do. To top it off, these home builders know d**n well the Hispanic workers they are employing are not only illegal but that they are living in the trees like animals! The builders and the farmers that employ these people... they are the scum who you should decry, not the illegal immigrants, who are the victims, stuck in the middle between to governmental policies; US policy, which purports to not want them here illegally, and the Mexican policy, which encourages them to sneak over the border. By the way, Mexicans are not the only ones here, there are also a large number of Guatemalan, El Salvadorian, Ecuadorian and Costa Rican immigrants here. Most of them do not want to stay here; they just want to make enough money to buy their own land, which must be 100% paid for up front. There are many employers that do treat illegal workers properly, having them do work we all know most people, even Brian, would never do. American workers willing to take these jobs, like landscaping in 120 degree weather, would never be as reliable or as hard working as these poor illegals coming over our borders from our neighbors to the south. Is our US Government so inefficient they can't stop this? If we really wanted to stop it, we could. This has been no mistake. This is all a matter of economics for the American economy. We "allow" it because it actually is good for our economy. It keeps the price of our fruits and vegetables low. Alexander Hamilton WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN Now that we have addressed the subject of our economy, I want you to take your wallet out, Brian. Look at a $10 bill... on the front. Do you know who that man is? Yes, he is Alexander Hamilton. Do you know anything about him? He was born in Charles Town on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. He spent most of his youth in St. Croix and then snuck into the American Colony, the continental states, ILLEGALLY at age 17. He later worked hard! He not only fought the British as a soldier, but also against the brutality of slavery. He saw the inhumane treatment of African slaves in the Caribbean, and guess what? They let him stay here. He shaped the future of our American Economy to the world class economy that it is today. Many of these immigrants have the potential to be doctors, lawyers and teachers, also. They should have the chance and you should be comfortable with that. What ever happened to: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free... Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...?" SOLUTION: This is as close as this EDitor gets to agreeing with President George Bush (43). Ironically, the conscienceless Republicans are angry with him for suggesting an humane solution. I propose we give all those who are here now, 60 or 90 days to get fingerprinted and registered with some sort of social security number, and a way to prove residence. Perhaps we should require an American to agree to employ them, a sponsor if you will. That sponsorship would require those who employ these people certain minimal and HUMANE accommodations. No trees or bridges to live under. This would not give anyone citizenship until they are here, problem-free, for 10 years, paying taxes and receiving lower wages. That is a win-win situation. It is good for the economy and provides a safe means to stay in this country. Those who wish to come here to work could also be allowed on a special work visa. This also guts the immoral business of the "coyote," who smuggle humans, often endangering them. Maybe this would deter American Companies from outsourcing jobs to China, India and Indonesia. Rip-off Report assisting those less fortunate.. This EDitor and some of his volunteers work for solutions, not just complain about the problems. We talk with the workers and warn them about behaviors that may get them into trouble. We hand out fliers, printed in Spanish, warning them that some of their customs may actually land them in jail; like peeing on the side of a building or spitting or walking into the street to get work. We also tell them not to bunch up; keep to only two in a group because of the obvious excuse for the police to arrest them. UNSCRUPULOUS EMPLOYERS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ILLEGALS The next issue that needs a solution is the punishment of the unscrupulous employers. They must be forced to be fair. It only stands to reason that if they can justify breaking the law to make a living, then they will probably break other rules. In fact, this class of people are often guilty of not paying agreed upon wages, even though the labor is a steal of a deal anyway. Often, East Valley Phoenix ranchers, Farmers, landscape companies, and contractors work the illegals for a week or a month and then drop them off in the middle of nowhere, and tell them to take off and if they show up again they will call "le migre" (immigration). I, ED Magedson personally go out every week handing out flyers and counsel these workers to carry pencils and paper. They are advised to write down the times and types of labor performed, the addresses where they worked and the license plates of the vehicles that transported them. We counsel them that even though they are not here legally that it is against the law for these people not to pay them. It is theft of service. Rip-off Report offers them a free service in helping them to get their money owed, in some cases we have involved the police to hold them accountable for these crimes. Going after the companies and individuals with out the assistance of the police or the courts is defiantly quicker.. The companies realize once we contact them, if they were to go to court, it would mean treble damages for not paying their workers. In the end, Brian, these are human beings and we have a responsibility to maintain a standard of behavior that demonstrates that we are determined to uphold the rights of all people. Examine our fundamental documents which established our nation. In the Declaration of Independence it says: "...We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Brian, I added the capitalization of the word "ALL" for emphasis. It does not exclude Mexicans, Central or South Americans. It does not exclude Africans, Chinese or Jews; however, it includes everyone. The sooner we get that, the sooner we will start treating each other properly. I would suggest that anyone who does not agree with this doctrine are not truly American and should probably repatriate, not the illegal immigrants who actually subscribe to our American doctrine. Thank you, ED Magedson [email protected] badbusinessbureau.com www.ripoffreport.com We are not lawyers. We are not a collection agency. We are Consumer Advocates. ...the victims' advocate WE are Civil and Human Rights Activists We are a Nationwide Consumer Reporting News Agency ...by consumers, for consumers

EDitor's Comment Brian, you just don't get it, do you. Since they are here in the USA, they should not be allowed to be treated like animals. Punct, period. It doesn't matter what you think life is like where they came from. I thought we got over that mentality when we realized slavery was wrong. I just checked the same location this past weekend, that I reported on a number of years ago. (see the photos at the beginning of this Report) ..also new photo's below. Below you can see this builder is clearly advertising for Spanish workers. Nothing about experience here?. Wonder if they are paid on the books? All the workers walk or ride their bikes from down the street about a half a mile away from the bushes and trees they live in. These workers live in the trees you see at the very top of the page and in the areas pictured below under this bridge. Those photo's at the top of this Report were taken 3 years ago, those living quarters at the top of the page still exist today, some workers live there and work here and for other builders in the area. Many of the workers that lived in the groves also worked in the grove, now they work building the homes as these lands get sold off to builders. Once the groves are gone, and the homes are all built, these workers will be used for our car washes and other jobs Americans will never do. The bridge below is one of the better places these works can live. They do not have to worry about tarps blowing away to protect them from the rain. Local residents and the authorities know they live here. Anyone can see them walking with their groceries into the bushes and no one seems to care. It is estimated by one law enforcement officer that there are more than 400 illegals living and working in this particular area, mostly working in the Groves or building homes. According to authorities there are no problems with crime involving the illegals. A few occasional drunks have been detained for public intoxication. The illegals do not have a reputation for causing any problems according to the police officer we spoke with. Neither you, nor any politician can understand how dire their situation is unless they go and see these accommodations for themselves. Yes, illegals are still there, even a lot more of them, growing every day and they are not going away. That is the reality of the situation. Their situation is the same, with a lot more makeshift housing, if you want to call it that. Sanitation is still not available and with the drought, water is rarely available in the canals. These people depend on that water in which to bathe and wash their clothes. Now, here's the real kicker... Not only are many of them still working in the fields, and although they seem to have received a raise (from $70 to $150 a week), they are being worked harder than their American counterpart field workers; about 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Most of the people I talked with are working on new home construction in the Phoenix East Valley, which are being sold for over $400,000 just down the street from their enclave. The wages the home builders are paying these illegals is between $5 to $8 per hour, doing the same work gringos are being paid $17 to $32 per hour to accomplish. Now tell me, who is the bad guy here?! Brian, this could be you, maybe in your next life. One never knows what bad luck may be in store for any of us. Put yourself in the place of these illegals. Almost every culture advises us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. Just imagine your family is poor, no work because your country sucks and there is no assistance they can provide for you. Brian, wouldn't you do absolutely anything possible to save your loved ones from hunger and then to help them achieve their dreams? CROSSING A BORDER ILLEGALLY SEEMS PRETTY HARMLESS TO ME. CERTAINLY NOT WORTH A FELONY.. So, what is so bad about what these people are trying to do? They jump a fence or swim a river that we as Americans cannot or choose not to protect. Do you think this is by mistake? Is it because we, as Americans, are so inefficient to properly protect our borders? Or is it because our economy really depends on these unique hard workers? No matter what you want to believe, they got here and we have jobs for them because unscrupulous home builders, farmers and ranchers are greedy enough and would rather break the law to enlarge their already overpriced product margin. These unscrupulous companies do not care about the quality of the homes they are selling, using substandard materials and employing these people illegally, to do the work they are not properly trained to do. To top it off, these home builders know d**n well the Hispanic workers they are employing are not only illegal but that they are living in the trees like animals! The builders and the farmers that employ these people... they are the scum who you should decry, not the illegal immigrants, who are the victims, stuck in the middle between to governmental policies; US policy, which purports to not want them here illegally, and the Mexican policy, which encourages them to sneak over the border. By the way, Mexicans are not the only ones here, there are also a large number of Guatemalan, El Salvadorian, Ecuadorian and Costa Rican immigrants here. Most of them do not want to stay here; they just want to make enough money to buy their own land, which must be 100% paid for up front. There are many employers that do treat illegal workers properly, having them do work we all know most people, even Brian, would never do. American workers willing to take these jobs, like landscaping in 120 degree weather, would never be as reliable or as hard working as these poor illegals coming over our borders from our neighbors to the south. Is our US Government so inefficient they can't stop this? If we really wanted to stop it, we could. This has been no mistake. This is all a matter of economics for the American economy. We "allow" it because it actually is good for our economy. It keeps the price of our fruits and vegetables low. Alexander Hamilton WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN Now that we have addressed the subject of our economy, I want you to take your wallet out, Brian. Look at a $10 bill... on the front. Do you know who that man is? Yes, he is Alexander Hamilton. Do you know anything about him? He was born in Charles Town on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. He spent most of his youth in St. Croix and then snuck into the American Colony, the continental states, ILLEGALLY at age 17. He later worked hard! He not only fought the British as a soldier, but also against the brutality of slavery. He saw the inhumane treatment of African slaves in the Caribbean, and guess what? They let him stay here. He shaped the future of our American Economy to the world class economy that it is today. Many of these immigrants have the potential to be doctors, lawyers and teachers, also. They should have the chance and you should be comfortable with that. What ever happened to: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free... Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me...?" SOLUTION: This is as close as this EDitor gets to agreeing with President George Bush (43). Ironically, the conscienceless Republicans are angry with him for suggesting an humane solution. I propose we give all those who are here now, 60 or 90 days to get fingerprinted and registered with some sort of social security number, and a way to prove residence. Perhaps we should require an American to agree to employ them, a sponsor if you will. That sponsorship would require those who employ these people certain minimal and HUMANE accommodations. No trees or bridges to live under. This would not give anyone citizenship until they are here, problem-free, for 10 years, paying taxes and receiving lower wages. That is a win-win situation. It is good for the economy and provides a safe means to stay in this country. Those who wish to come here to work could also be allowed on a special work visa. This also guts the immoral business of the "coyote," who smuggle humans, often endangering them. Maybe this would deter American Companies from outsourcing jobs to China, India and Indonesia. Rip-off Report assisting those less fortunate.. This EDitor and some of his volunteers work for solutions, not just complain about the problems. We talk with the workers and warn them about behaviors that may get them into trouble. We hand out fliers, printed in Spanish, warning them that some of their customs may actually land them in jail; like peeing on the side of a building or spitting or walking into the street to get work. We also tell them not to bunch up; keep to only two in a group because of the obvious excuse for the police to arrest them. UNSCRUPULOUS EMPLOYERS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ILLEGALS The next issue that needs a solution is the punishment of the unscrupulous employers. They must be forced to be fair. It only stands to reason that if they can justify breaking the law to make a living, then they will probably break other rules. In fact, this class of people are often guilty of not paying agreed upon wages, even though the labor is a steal of a deal anyway. Often, East Valley Phoenix ranchers, Farmers, landscape companies, and contractors work the illegals for a week or a month and then drop them off in the middle of nowhere, and tell them to take off and if they show up again they will call "le migre" (immigration). I, ED Magedson personally go out every week handing out flyers and counsel these workers to carry pencils and paper. They are advised to write down the times and types of labor performed, the addresses where they worked and the license plates of the vehicles that transported them. We counsel them that even though they are not here legally that it is against the law for these people not to pay them. It is theft of service. Rip-off Report offers them a free service in helping them to get their money owed, in some cases we have involved the police to hold them accountable for these crimes. Going after the companies and individuals with out the assistance of the police or the courts is defiantly quicker.. The companies realize once we contact them, if they were to go to court, it would mean treble damages for not paying their workers. In the end, Brian, these are human beings and we have a responsibility to maintain a standard of behavior that demonstrates that we are determined to uphold the rights of all people. Examine our fundamental documents which established our nation. In the Declaration of Independence it says: "...We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." Brian, I added the capitalization of the word "ALL" for emphasis. It does not exclude Mexicans, Central or South Americans. It does not exclude Africans, Chinese or Jews; however, it includes everyone. The sooner we get that, the sooner we will start treating each other properly. I would suggest that anyone who does not agree with this doctrine are not truly American and should probably repatriate, not the illegal immigrants who actually subscribe to our American doctrine. Thank you, ED Magedson [email protected] badbusinessbureau.com www.ripoffreport.com We are not lawyers. We are not a collection agency. We are Consumer Advocates. ...the victims' advocate WE are Civil and Human Rights Activists We are a Nationwide Consumer Reporting News Agency ...by consumers, for consumers

In response to the original post, lets assume everything you say is true...All I can say is that's just plain terrible! Unbelievable how these people are being abused and taken advantage of. Ending up homeless, being paid substandard wages, working 12 and 14 hours a day! I'm sorry but Americans are just plain nasty, dirty, mean people to take advantage of and abuse these people who FLED ANOTHER COUNTRY ALONG WITH A FEW MILLION OTHERS BECAUSE THEIR COUNTRY IS A FRIGGIN' DISASTER AREA AND SH*T HOLE AND AMERICA IS HEAVEN COMPARED TO WHAT THEY LEFT. Get it?! They know where the border is if they decide thay can't take the abuse any longer.

In response to the original post, lets assume everything you say is true...All I can say is that's just plain terrible! Unbelievable how these people are being abused and taken advantage of. Ending up homeless, being paid substandard wages, working 12 and 14 hours a day! I'm sorry but Americans are just plain nasty, dirty, mean people to take advantage of and abuse these people who FLED ANOTHER COUNTRY ALONG WITH A FEW MILLION OTHERS BECAUSE THEIR COUNTRY IS A FRIGGIN' DISASTER AREA AND SH*T HOLE AND AMERICA IS HEAVEN COMPARED TO WHAT THEY LEFT. Get it?! They know where the border is if they decide thay can't take the abuse any longer.

In response to the original post, lets assume everything you say is true...All I can say is that's just plain terrible! Unbelievable how these people are being abused and taken advantage of. Ending up homeless, being paid substandard wages, working 12 and 14 hours a day! I'm sorry but Americans are just plain nasty, dirty, mean people to take advantage of and abuse these people who FLED ANOTHER COUNTRY ALONG WITH A FEW MILLION OTHERS BECAUSE THEIR COUNTRY IS A FRIGGIN' DISASTER AREA AND SH*T HOLE AND AMERICA IS HEAVEN COMPARED TO WHAT THEY LEFT. Get it?! They know where the border is if they decide thay can't take the abuse any longer.

In response to the original post, lets assume everything you say is true...All I can say is that's just plain terrible! Unbelievable how these people are being abused and taken advantage of. Ending up homeless, being paid substandard wages, working 12 and 14 hours a day! I'm sorry but Americans are just plain nasty, dirty, mean people to take advantage of and abuse these people who FLED ANOTHER COUNTRY ALONG WITH A FEW MILLION OTHERS BECAUSE THEIR COUNTRY IS A FRIGGIN' DISASTER AREA AND SH*T HOLE AND AMERICA IS HEAVEN COMPARED TO WHAT THEY LEFT. Get it?! They know where the border is if they decide thay can't take the abuse any longer.

Ok, I read only a handful of the comments posted on here but I wanted to share my opinion on this. My husband and I hired several immigrants to work on our house in California. We needed things done like painting, cleaning, electrical help etc..We had just purchased the property months before. We drove up to a Home Depot and the workers approached the car. My husband speaks spanish. He asked them if they knew how to paint and if they had any handy man experience. They all said "yes". We were providing transportation indefinitely and lunch only for the first day. The drive was about an hour and a half so we advised them to bring water and their own lunch for the next day. However, the first day was horrible. The workers did not know how to do any of the tasks that we asked them in the beginning. They were singing and dancing in the empty apartments. I was kinda upset! All of the hispanic/mexican people I knew were hard workers!! but these men were younger (maybe that made a difference)...anyways. We paid them $10 an hour because we thought that was fair for 8 hours a day. At the end of the day on the way home, one of the men asked my husband if he could pay more money for the kind of work they were doing. Keep in mind, my husband had already brought them lunch, paid them in advance, and let them take extensive breaks. Even when he caught them dancing and singing, he ignored it! I told my husband to fire them and hire more people who seriously wanted to work. We picked up 4 other workers 2 days later and again, the same thing!...they didnt want to work!! No one should be mistreated or taken advantage of, but I feel like we were taken advantage of. Those few workers make it bad for people who are truly in need of work.

You made great points. However, the "legal" immigratants cannot earn below the minimum wage (as they may complain and get the employer shut down, tax-paying legal citizen can SUE!) ...USA has been built up by immigrants, but yes every country imposes restriction barriers on it. It IS a law.. that you must be "welcomed" legally into the US, and thus "illegal" immigrants NEEEEEED to be kicked off and reduce the poverty line of LEGAL citizens who have no income in this country.

I have seen numerous articles touting how we should allow any illegal Hispanic immigrant who wants to be here to, well, be here. Well, first of all, for all of you promoting this view, I'm afraid you're being INCREDIBLY closed-minded and selfish. You forget about all of the people that this affects who are law-abiding citizens. No, this won't be an argument you've read before, so read carefully. First of all, I'd like to ask you why you're giving preferential treatment to illegal immigrants from Central and South America. There are plenty of illegal immigrants from other countries that are regularly expelled, who hold down less than minimum wage jobs, but who don't seem to garner your sympathy or support. Why? Because they aren't Hispanic! How about the "rounding up" of middle eastern people during the Iraq war? Did anyone not find it ironic that the same people who shout for illegal immigrant rights were telling them to go back to their country of origin? I guess allowing people to break our immigration laws only applies to CERTAIN people. Last time I checked, THAT was called racism. As for people who say we NEED ILLEGAL immigrants to work for less than minimum wage jobs, I say to you you're wrong. There are plenty of LEGAL immigrants that would love to fill that role. These people apply LEGALLY for citizenship/residency status, but are denied because of quotas. On the other hand, Hispanics can flood across the border, openly defiant of our immigration laws, and you defend their right to do so. That makes no sense. We have a considerable pool of people willing to follow our laws and migrate here legally for these jobs, but you tell them that because they try to come here legally, they don't deserve special treatment. On the other hand, if you try to come here illegally and flout our laws, we welcome you with open arms. That makes NO SENSE whatsoever!!!! Another consideration here is that those that defend the rights of illegal immigrants to be here are generally not affected by their presence. My neighborhood has become 50% Hispanic, mostly illegal Mexican immigrants. It was once a nice working class neighborhood, clean and quiet. Now, houses are packed with 30+ people in an 1100 sq. ft. home, the neighborhood is dirty, there is graffiti everywhere, and crime has increased dramatically. What happens when someone who is illegal breaks the law? They aren't in the system, so there's no way to know who they really are. Often they make up a name, or tell police officers that they don't have identification or don't speak Spanish. Because officers don't want to deal with this, they let them go. Now, illegal immigrants, because they have no documentation, are ABOVE the law. They openly tout this fact, too. What's great is when I see bumper stickers that say "You're on MEXICAN land". Yes, well, it seems no one wants to fight for MY rights as a TAXPAYING LEGAL citizen, so that bumper sticker may be true in some ways. What makes me the angriest is when people say you are racist because you think immigration laws should be enforced EVEN HANDEDLY. Well, those people are obviously ignorant of the fact that EVERY country has immigration laws, and these are NECESSARY and BENEFICIAL to the country. By not enforcing those laws, you are telling me that, as a taxpaying citizen who follows all laws, I'm the dummy.

If they are ILLEGAL they only have to obey the law and that will solve the problem. i don't see anyone forcing them to stay here. In fact, i know of NO ONE who ants them here except other illegals and latinos who THINK they have a stake in this country ! Go home or be taken advantage of !! Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen ! Run for the border, the OTHER way !!! Personally I feel NOTHING for their sorry asses but amusement when they get caught and disgust when they take advantage of our kindness. ever count how many on AMW(americas most wanted) are Illegal Immigrants !!!!! It's time we all followed that families example. They should be given medals !!!

Just thought that I should include a few additional remarks about the basic point of this article that I so ignorantly ignored. I agree with the originator of this article. Illegal aliens have been given basic human rights within our country that should not be ignored. I do not advocate illegal activity but on the other hand even criminals are treated humanly under the blanket of our democracy. The aliens rights should be protected and enforced. Immigration can not be fixed over night. Nor should we give up all hope of reforming the problem. A wall on the border would help a great deal to slow trafficking but would not entirely solve the problem. Increased border security would also help but not solve the problem either. These illegal workers being mistreeted in Arizona, contrary to popular belief on this forum, can not be returned to their native country. Why? you ask. Well my dear reader I will explain. The laws of immigration within the United States are so complex that many immigration judges in the south west, bleeding hearted judges, have no idea of the consequences of their actions. If one state(mainly the ninth district),((That's California for those that didn't know)) has immigration judges that prosecute federal or local law enforcement or accept preposterous claims then other states follow and our immigration laws become corrupt. The truth of the matter is that these illegal manual laborers in Arizona honestly suffer from our corrupt laws that protect the illegality of their entry, the illegality of their employment and the illegality of them residing within the United States. I am not saying that their is not an answer to the problem, I am only stating that it will not be an easy one. I love my country. I agree with closing our porus borders. I also agree with the laws of humanity. Keeping illegal aliens out is more humane that destroying our country by letting them in illegally with limited rights to protect them. Just saying ship ILLEGAL ALIENS BACK, or BLAME THE MORMONS (what ever that means), is not enough and only proves ignorance. CLOSE THE BORDERS! THROUGH DOING THE FOLLOWING: 1)SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT! 2)SUPPORT FEDERAL FUNDING TO CLOSE THE BORDERS! 3)VOTE! FOR OFFICIALS THAT WILL MAKE CHANGE! 4)SUPPORT INCREASED BORDER SECURITY! 5)EDUCATE YOURSELF ON IMMIGRATION LAW! 6)EDUACTE YOURSELF ON TRUE HISPANIC CULTURE! After all that, stand with me and respond to a few forums to educate others.

I just wanted to respond to this massive thred. It is cool that this many people are so interested in Migrant Workers. This is my take. I will try to keep it clean and strictly factual. While living on the border I personally have witnessed bad border behavior that includes the following: 1) Mexican citizens(Legal Border Crossers) due attend schools in the United States for free, (and yes, I know how it is done and I am very educated on the matter of illegal immigration but no, I will not state in this thred how it is done. I don't wish to support how illegal activity is done, so you are welcome to bash but remember I AM educated on the entire subject of illegal immigration and live in it first hand.) and I and my neighbors front the bill through property taxes. 2) Illegal aliens do not pay out of state tuition at many universities within the United States. They can file for scholarships and are frequently granted them due to minority status and income. Explain away how this can happen in a city that is populated primarily by hispanics. They are also frequently granted redused tuition due to their low to no income clamed on student registration papers and no back ground can be checked on a person that doesn't exist. 3) The United States Government fronts the bill for illegal immigrants that are injured during their migration. The tab gets so large at times that many hospitals close prior to recovering the loss. Any injured illegal immigrant will be granted care in this country due to the humanity of our laws. That is a fact. The other sad but true fact is that you, the reader of this article, and I, and my neighbors front the bill in federal taxes. The closing of hospitals becomes a problem when you or I go to get medical treatment and limited competition exists. It all snow balls into a massive problem, but I will go on. 4) Crime, ouch, a touchy subject. Some argue that crime isn't a big deal on the border. Don't even go there. Remember, I live on the border. I, as well as local or federal authorities can vouch that the crime rate has increased in the past 10 years involving illegal immigrants. I'm only talking about the minor stuff. The deaths. The rapes. The agrivated assualts. All these are not reported as illegal activity because they commit the crimes and flee to Mexico. The arguement that these are not migrant workers is unfounded. If your job is theivery, murder, or rape were would you go, in your own back yard or across the border to the land of the free? 5) Drug trafficking across our borders is at an all time high. Billions of dollars are spent every year toward the control and prevention of drug trafficking. When federal funding is cut, and it happens more often than not, our local organizations take the brunt and are cut off. I would rather a thousand illegal jobs were lost and my produce prices went up than my local narcotics task force suffer from lack of funding. Believe it. It happens and has recently happened. 6) Understaffed local law enforcement are unable to deal with all reported occurrences or law violations and locals suffer the brunt. Traffic violations go unchecked and car insurance fruad runs rampant. 7) Fraudulent documents, lead to identity theft. Identity theft leads to higher taxes to cover the cost. Taxes turned to identity theft come from other allocations and folks wonder why the national deficit is so high. Look into the cost illegal immigration has on our government. 8) Last but not least, illegal immigration is just that, ILLEGAL. A crime is a crime no matter how much you sugar coat it. Illegal immigration and illegal trafficking go hand in hand. When you associate with criminals in a criminal act you become a criminal. So, all illegal aliens are criminals, no matter if they pick fruit and don't do drugs. No matter if they clean a rich woman's home and don't kill anybody, they are still criminals. Also, as a side note, the fasted growing hispanic gang and classified as the most dangerous of all hispanic gangs is the Mara Salvatrucha, MS13, MS12, and/or ELMS (East Los Angeles Mara Salvatrucha). This gang delves in Alien Trafficking. They brag of dealings with Al-qaida, and drug dealers and have no fear of local law enforcement and Federal Agents. Illegal immigration pays for one of the most secretive, lucrative, and evil gangs within the United States.

Matt, You still cannot read, and still have no grasp on the actual economics here. First of all, labor cost is only a small part of the total price of a product. Very small. Any product has to be competitive in the marketplace. That is common sense, but there are numerous other places to make that adjustment in overhead. Once upon a time, there ws a Union trucking company that paid a starting wage for dock workers and yardman of just over $13/hr in 1987. Directly across the street was a non union company that paid a starting wage of $7 for the same exact job. Guess what? The cost to the customer to ship the very same freight was EXACTLY the SAME! This is just one example. Wages are a very small part of the price of a product. And, in NO WAY should the TAXPAYERS subsidize the profit of WAL-MART! They need to pay a living wage and benefits to all employees. And ILLEGALS can work the 40 hours you want! On the road gang.

Steve, I know about our economy more that what you think. I know people like you do more damage to our economy than the poor illegal immigrants for example. Smart people do not hate immigrants. I know republicans damage our economy by spending 10 times more money in weapons and war than in healthcare. You said something about Wal-Mart. I agree with you, and if you really know something about the economy you should know that there will always be the poor and the rich. What the rich, like Wal-Mart, are doing is taking advantage of the poor. However, without Wal-Mart you would be paying higher prices for everything. Wal-Mart put pressure on all other stores. Other stores have to lower the prices because of Wal-Mart competition. At the end, the consumers benefit from that. Everything is on balance. You can't have something without losing another. If you get rid of Wal-Mart, we are going to end up with some better jobs, but the cost of merchandise will rise too and the purchase power of the Americans would not be as it is now. That is the same for people who complaint about Chinese imports. Without the Chinese imports American manufacturers would prey on people like you and me by raising their prices very high. Chinese imports put pressure on American manufacturers and that is why we have low prices. If we stop the trade with China, we would have more jobs, and better wages, but the prices of everything would go up, and the purchase power of Americans would not be as it is now. You may think that at the end it would be the same, and that it would be better not to trade with anyone if we come out to be in the same position. Well, that is not true. To answer that question I would recommend you to take a Macroeconomics class in a local College or University. There, you will learn about the benefits of trade. Globalization is taking over the world, and if we isolate ourselves from the rest of the world we are going to end up losing the benefits of trade. There is no way to stop that. It was written in the bible. One government will rule the Earth. Because of that, American rich will become richer, and the middle class will become poorer. The rich are the ones who benefit more from sending the jobs overseas. There are better things to take care about than illegal aliens. At this point, they benefit us all. In the future, we may be the ones picking tomatoes and oranges for 5 dollars an hour because those will be the only jobs left for us here in America. If government pushes employers to pay higher wages, they will simply send the jobs overseas. My point here is that illegal aliens are not lowering our living standards. Without them, our living standards will be worse because prices will be higher too. For example, Americans would accept to pick oranges only if they pay them 20 dollars an hour. That is going to get the orange prices up!! Everything is going to go up, so where is the increase of our standard of living? We make more, but we pay more. Robert, I see you have credible facts. I understand what you say, and I believe part of what you say. However, the benefits given to American citizens not to illegal aliens. Even if you consider those American citizens as illegal aliens too, you cannot compare the benefits they get with the benefits lazy Americans get. What about single male aliens? What about non-pregnant females? Do they have benefits? In addition, the benefits handled to them are not food stamps. I know they can get Medicaid, but not food stamps. American Citizens who don't work or do anything can get all that and more without restrictions. I think that is worse. If an illegal alien can come here and find a job of at least 5 dollars an hour, why would an American citizen not find a job? There is not such a thing as that in America. That is laziness, and those are the ones we should send somewhere far from here. I work hard everyday, and I do not like to see other people in their home doing nothing. I would not say anything if they would at least work their 40 hours a week. Illegal aliens work 40 hours a week or more, and you have to give them credit for that.

"There is no way they can get food stamps, period!!" Unfortunately for you, that is incorrect. According to the Federal Government's own website, they are. Many of them come here pregnant. While the parents are still considered ILLEGAL, the children born to them, using US taxpayer money, are now US Citizens. Now, the children are fully qualified for ALL Government handouts. ALL of them. And since the children need someone to take care of them, who do you suppose the funds go to? If you guessed the ILLEGAL immigrant parents, then you win the prize.

"There is no way they can get food stamps, period!!" Unfortunately for you, that is incorrect. According to the Federal Government's own website, they are. Many of them come here pregnant. While the parents are still considered ILLEGAL, the children born to them, using US taxpayer money, are now US Citizens. Now, the children are fully qualified for ALL Government handouts. ALL of them. And since the children need someone to take care of them, who do you suppose the funds go to? If you guessed the ILLEGAL immigrant parents, then you win the prize.

"There is no way they can get food stamps, period!!" Unfortunately for you, that is incorrect. According to the Federal Government's own website, they are. Many of them come here pregnant. While the parents are still considered ILLEGAL, the children born to them, using US taxpayer money, are now US Citizens. Now, the children are fully qualified for ALL Government handouts. ALL of them. And since the children need someone to take care of them, who do you suppose the funds go to? If you guessed the ILLEGAL immigrant parents, then you win the prize.

"There is no way they can get food stamps, period!!" Unfortunately for you, that is incorrect. According to the Federal Government's own website, they are. Many of them come here pregnant. While the parents are still considered ILLEGAL, the children born to them, using US taxpayer money, are now US Citizens. Now, the children are fully qualified for ALL Government handouts. ALL of them. And since the children need someone to take care of them, who do you suppose the funds go to? If you guessed the ILLEGAL immigrant parents, then you win the prize.

First of all, I do not hate immigrants. I hate illegal immigrants. A very big difference. Second, in this instance, FAKE SS# and STOLEN SS# mean exactly the same thing for the practical purpose of obtaing benefits. You knowledge of how the economy actually works is very limited. Even if all of these immigrants were given worker status, they would most likely still be working for far less than a "living wage" which means the taxpayer would be paying for all of the social services they would now get legally. This is what happened to our economy with the boom of Wal-Mart. Most of Wal-Marts employees are on some type of public assistance that we are paying for. Every job that is created under the living wage standard hurts our economy, and drives the average wage down even further. The pore people you have willing to work for nothing, enables employers to offer jobs that pay nothing. I do not want to lower our standard of living to that of Mexico. That is where we are headed. WAKE UP!!!!

I want to respond to Steve. Steve, first you said they have fake SS numbers, now you say they have stolen SS numbers. I think you are confused. That just proves to me that you do not know anything about the illegal aliens. No matter what I say, you will always come with another excuse to accuse that poor hard working people. I understand that there may be some of them who are not good for our society, but don't blame all of them. A good thing to do would be to deport all the bad ones, and legalize all the good hard working, law-abiding people in this country. If your neighbors get food stamps and if they get all kind of welfare that is because they are legal immigrants. Legal immigrants have almost all the rights of an American Citizen. Do not confuse a legal immigrant with an illegal immigrant. How do you know your neighbors are illegal aliens? You just assumed that right? You are blaming the wrong people. You cannot accuse people without proof. There is no way they can get food stamps, period!! Coming to America legally means they come here the easy way. They have the right to get government assistance, and if they want to, they can cheat the system. If people risk their lives to come here to have a better life, they probably have the desire of working hard. Illegal aliens work hard because they came here the hard way. They do not risk their lives in vane. Steve I am tired of writing to you because I know you will never understand. You are the way you are, and you will make 1000 excuses. Nobody is going to change you because the truth is you hate immigrants. If illegal aliens go away, you are going to complaint about other people. That is something that will never end. God knows what you are doing, and you will be judged for what you do one day. You have hate in your heart and that is not good my friend. Mike, I understand exactly what you say. The government makes too hard for people to come here legally. That is why they come here illegally because they have no hope to do it the legal way. There is something important in what you said. You said it would be better if they spend the money here in America. Nobody is going to buy a house, or invest in America when they know they may be deported anytime. The Mexican president said he was pleased with the immigration reform proposed by president Bush because it was for temporary visas only. He said something like this: If the USA grants them permanent resident status to Mexican illegal aliens, they will be able to bring their immediate families there. Without immediate families here in Mexico, they will not send any more money, which is one of the biggest income of the Mexican economy. More money spent in the USA means more jobs. You need to understand that as long as the American economy grows, we need immigrants. American families have a very low birth rate, and it is only enough to cover the jobs being left by people who retires. Who is going to fill the other jobs? A typical family has 2 children. 2 people die, 2 people born. There is no population growth for the Anglos. We need immigrants.

There's a solution to every problem and this is a tremendous problem and embarassment. First, we need to get on the right track. Wow, was I this blinded as well? We all are focusing on what we are led to see and what we are led to believe. We are all conned by our government and the people with the money to control it. Before I elaborate on this subject, allow me a simple example that could life some fog from our eyes. Pet's and animals were dying from drinking anti-freeze, it tasted good. What an outrage! Once this became public knowledge, laws were made and anti-freeze no longer tastes good, thus our loved pets are no longer cruelly dying from drinking the stuff. But wait, what about tobacco? We all know it is addictive, that it is bad for our health, using it is of no benefit but rather, it is detrimental. A reasonable person would think that something that kills people and serves no useful purpose would be illegal? Yet, why am I seeing my teenage daughter and her friends smoking. Because big money has big control over the government; not to mention how our government is such a tangled mess that it trips over it's own two left feet. Or are our pets worth more to us than our children? So, back to what is the problem here? It's the USCIS and Homeland Security; allowing the people with the big bucks who want status quo to pull on their strings and set policy. Not the illegal immigrants, they are victims. What has opened my eyes? A situation like another gentleman who spoke up with a similar story to mine. I have been fighting an unseen, uncaring, bureaucracy for 8 months now trying to get a Fiance Visa for the woman I love so we can be together. This is not unreasonable, it should not be hard; but it is. The pursuit of happiness is a basic right being denied me by the USCIS for mistakes they have made, by the nightmare paperwork required (all perfectly done), and by all the fees. It's a lot less work to stamp a denied on the paperwork then for them to work it. Plus, either way it looks like they are getting things done without really needing to do much on a denial; so, which to choose for greatest looking productivety is an easy answer. I work for the government, I know. This same barrier makes it impossible for a simple working man or woman (from anywhere) to gain legal entry to the U.S.; or, for an honest American business owner to do the right thing and document their workers. Instead of wasting our tax dollars on the circus another man spoke of (hunt them down, take them back, hunt them down again, take them back again and so on), our government should be helping these people looking for better lives, looking to earn an honest living, and looking for a piece of the pie to legally enter the U.S.; to find work, to pay taxes, and to know their rights. Just like the saying it takes money to make money; well, more jobs create more jobs. Just imagine how things would change if they had some rights and knew what the minimum wage was and could freely report their abuse. If they made decent money and could bring their families here and spend that money in American stores and on products you've made or in your place of business. I sure believe it would be for the better of each American and for our country! That's my nickel's worth (with the length of my response, I've said more than 2 cents worth). I've written my representatives and have said as much. Let's simplify the process, control the issues, and use it to our advantage.

I lived in Phoenix and about half of the people I lived near had no legal status, but they all had food stamps. They all had medical care. AND none of them have any insurance on the cars they drive. We foot the bill for that too. I have illegals living directly behind me. They get everything. These people get SS cards that do not belong to them. there is a big black market for stolen SS cards. They dont verify crap here in Bradenton. You fill out the app and get the welfare.

I lived in Phoenix and about half of the people I lived near had no legal status, but they all had food stamps. They all had medical care. AND none of them have any insurance on the cars they drive. We foot the bill for that too. I have illegals living directly behind me. They get everything. These people get SS cards that do not belong to them. there is a big black market for stolen SS cards. They dont verify crap here in Bradenton. You fill out the app and get the welfare.

I lived in Phoenix and about half of the people I lived near had no legal status, but they all had food stamps. They all had medical care. AND none of them have any insurance on the cars they drive. We foot the bill for that too. I have illegals living directly behind me. They get everything. These people get SS cards that do not belong to them. there is a big black market for stolen SS cards. They dont verify crap here in Bradenton. You fill out the app and get the welfare.

I lived in Phoenix and about half of the people I lived near had no legal status, but they all had food stamps. They all had medical care. AND none of them have any insurance on the cars they drive. We foot the bill for that too. I have illegals living directly behind me. They get everything. These people get SS cards that do not belong to them. there is a big black market for stolen SS cards. They dont verify crap here in Bradenton. You fill out the app and get the welfare.

As I said before Steve, you need to post facts in this web site. You are either lying, or you don't know how things really work. You said almost all illegals have fake Social Security Numbers, and you are right. That just proves that they do not qualify for food stamps. You have just cut your own throat my friend. Do you think the Department of Children and Families in your state are brainless? They verify Social Security numbers, and immigration status. Do you understand the word verify Steve? Or you want me to explain you what it means? Let me tall you what you can do my friend. You can call the Department of Children and Families in Florida. 1-866-762-2237 Or you can go in person to your local service center: Bradenton Service Center 303 East 13th Avenue Bradenton, FL 33208 You can then ask them what the word verify means. After you do that, reply to me and I will be happy to discuss your findings. Be honest, and tell the truth, so people here can see that I don't lie. Actually, anyone is invited to call that number and ask about the issue. If you do not like immigrants because of your ignorance just say that, but do not try to tell lies to other people. Illegal immigrants break the law I agree with you on that, but they don't do any bad to the economy as you and others have said. There are very good chances that you and your family suck up more government assistance that illegal aliens. They just can't suck that because they are not eligible. I can almost guarantee that you fit in my anti-immigrant profile, and that is why I believe you are the one of the leeches. Poor, Lazy, Republican, Uneducated, Racist, Living in the country, Older than 35. You do not like Immigrants simply because you think they are competing with you in getting free stuff from the government, but you are wrong because these poor people just want to work, that is all they want. The law says you are a criminal too, so you should be in jail. How many laws have you broken in your entire life here Steve? Everybody breaks laws man, and you are not the exception. After you call the number I gave you, you will realize how ignorant you are. That is my way to prove you that illegal aliens can't get food stamps or Medicaid. How much money does the government spend in Medicaid for lazy Americans? I can guarantee you we suck more money in free medical services through Medicaid that the 12 million illegals. I know many American citizens that don't work or do anything productive for this country, and they don't pay a cent for medical services because Medicaid pay for them. Steve, don't tell me you don't know any people like that because you can find them anywhere. I am more worried about that kind of lazy people who don't work. The illegal aliens work hard, and any employer can tell you that. We should get rid of our own lazy people, which in my point of view are worse than the illegal aliens. This is the American way my friends. The government punishes the hard working people, and rewards the lazy.

I suggest that you get the facts before spouting off on something you know nothing about. These illegals almost all have fake SS#. A SS# is all it takes to get food stamps and everything else. Why are our medical cost so high? It is due to more than 12 MILLION illegals in this country sucking up medical services and never paying one cent. Keep in mind that there are both state and federal welfare programs, and even some county and city programs. All of this is irrelevant anyway. They are ILLEGAL which makes them CRIMINALS. They need to be in jail, or deported. That is the law. They have no legal right to be here. That is the only valid point here. If they do not like the living and working conditions they face here, they are FREE to leave. I will buy them the bus ticket.

I suggest that you get the facts before spouting off on something you know nothing about. These illegals almost all have fake SS#. A SS# is all it takes to get food stamps and everything else. Why are our medical cost so high? It is due to more than 12 MILLION illegals in this country sucking up medical services and never paying one cent. Keep in mind that there are both state and federal welfare programs, and even some county and city programs. All of this is irrelevant anyway. They are ILLEGAL which makes them CRIMINALS. They need to be in jail, or deported. That is the law. They have no legal right to be here. That is the only valid point here. If they do not like the living and working conditions they face here, they are FREE to leave. I will buy them the bus ticket.

I suggest that you get the facts before spouting off on something you know nothing about. These illegals almost all have fake SS#. A SS# is all it takes to get food stamps and everything else. Why are our medical cost so high? It is due to more than 12 MILLION illegals in this country sucking up medical services and never paying one cent. Keep in mind that there are both state and federal welfare programs, and even some county and city programs. All of this is irrelevant anyway. They are ILLEGAL which makes them CRIMINALS. They need to be in jail, or deported. That is the law. They have no legal right to be here. That is the only valid point here. If they do not like the living and working conditions they face here, they are FREE to leave. I will buy them the bus ticket.

I suggest that you get the facts before spouting off on something you know nothing about. These illegals almost all have fake SS#. A SS# is all it takes to get food stamps and everything else. Why are our medical cost so high? It is due to more than 12 MILLION illegals in this country sucking up medical services and never paying one cent. Keep in mind that there are both state and federal welfare programs, and even some county and city programs. All of this is irrelevant anyway. They are ILLEGAL which makes them CRIMINALS. They need to be in jail, or deported. That is the law. They have no legal right to be here. That is the only valid point here. If they do not like the living and working conditions they face here, they are FREE to leave. I will buy them the bus ticket.

Illegal aliens can't get food stamps who told you that? You need to educate yourselves better and find more information about the issue before you open you mouth. You need to call the social services office of your area and ask them about that. They will surely tell you that illegal aliens are not eligible for that kind of programs. They are not allowed to attend college in the United States. In a few states they are allowed to do it, but only if they pay out of state tuition. Employers take social security taxes from their paychecks, yet they do receive any social security benefits, or medicare, or medicaid. If they fill income taxes, they are not eligible to claim the earned income credit. Most low and middle class american citizens get their federal taxes back every year. Not only the taxes paid over the year, but more that that because of the earned income credit. At the end, american citizens end up paying no taxes at all, so what taxes are you people talking about? Most people against immigrants tend to be: Uneducated -have not finish even high school. Poor -lazy in most cases. Republicans Living outside of the cities. American citizens can get all benefits without paying a cent in taxes, and the ones who pay do not complaint. There are a few benefits for illegals like the Emergency Services, but with the social security taxes taken from all illegals in the country, government gets all that money back and even more. If all illegals are deported, white folks are going to have many jobs available. Of course, nobody is going to accept the minimum wage, so the farmers will have to raise the wages. Good for America right? Well I would not be so sure. How much would you have to pay for food? In order to survive, employers would have to rise the prices, and Americans would not have the same purchase power. I can assure you, you will not like that. We will have to import all food from China then, and white american employers would lose their jobs as well. No more business for them. That would create many problems and everyone of you would suffer. I saw someone saying illegal aliens are breaking the law. Well that is right, but who have not broke the laws in this country? We all break the laws, and we are all criminals. That does not make us different that these people. We are all criminals because at some point of our lives we have done someting illegal. Even a speeding ticket makes you a criminal. I saw someone saying that they should apply and wait in their countries to get a visa and come here legally. Let me tell you that it is impossible for most people to get an american visa. The only way to get a visa is to have family in America, who are American citizens, or marry an American. There is no way to come here legally for most people. They can wait 100 years waiting for a visa, and they will never get one. That is why they come here illegally, because there is no other way to do it legally. President Bush proposal is good because it would allow people to get temporary visas legally. People would be willing to wait 2, 5, or 10 years if they know that at the end they will get it. The only thing I see here is a bunch of racist people who do not want to se the reality. You do not like immigrants, and you are looking for excuses to talk bad about them. No matter what they do, you will never be pleased with them. I reccomend you to seek medical help, trust me there must be something wrong in your head specially if you claim to be a Christian person. Jesus Christ is love and peace. You have hate and anger in your heart that is why you do not like anybody. I am sure you don't even like your own people, or even yourself. Have a nice day, and please get facts before you write something against someone. Your words do not say the truth.

The entire reason we have so many illegals is due to the special interests of big business. They keep the wages down for the rest of us. Of course no one would want to work in a field all day for $20-$50 a day and live in a cardboard box. But pay me a living wage and I'll be right there. I love working outdoors. Anyway, the border patrol method of fighting illegals is a joke. It is such a simple solution but no one in govt has the backbone to do it as they are sucking up to big business. 2 simple things would almost wipe out illegals: 1: Take away ALL government services to them as well as the right to any US issued ID or DL. No medical care, No food stamps, NOTHING. 2: Make it a FELONY for any person or business to hire ANY undocumented worker. DONE! Very simple. Illegal immigrants, are, by definition, CRIMINALS! Lets put them to work...On the ROAD GANG in AZ, and expand Sherriff Joe's Tent City to house them! Look at the money we could save on our roads! They came here for work, let's give it too them! I can see I need to run for President.

I'm willing to bet that more than half of the people who post on this page are only doing so, because the word ILLEGAL keeps popping up....Yes, we all own dictionaries, so enough with the definition of illegal. This country is based on (whether you want to believe it or not) breaking rules for the sake of making things better. Look at our government... self explanatory. So how are you all going to sit here harping about the illegal immigrants, who for the most part, play an integral role in our economy? What about the "war" we're fighting in Iraq, that had no basis whatsoever? No justification, yet we've sent our troops over, and are losing them on a daily basis. For what?? A HUNCH? Yet you sit here and say that illegal immigrants are this and that... Illegal immigration has been here longer than any of us would like to think, and will be here for as long as people walk this earth. Nothing is ever going to be done to STOP it. Slow it down, maybe....but it will never end. As far as one of those comments goes from earlier, shooting them and throwin em back over the wall isnt gonna stop it. Its gonna make the problem worse... Then we'll start losing BP agents and NG to bullets. Why add fuel to the fire? Petition your state Gov't to pass legislation to help make these people legal... I know from experience, you send em back, they'll come back. Its a never ending battle for you people. You'll never stop it. Stop trying. Believe me... They ALWAYS come back. I used to work for the United States Border Patrol. I couldnt do it....too many get mistreated. Alls that happens to them is this... 1) They get picked up and taken to the station. 2) They're put in cells, fed, fingerprinted, and have their pictures taken. 3) Loaded into a van or a bus, and dropped off at the border. 4) we watch em walk back into Mexico. THAT'S IT! Say this happens on Friday. By monday morning, they're back where they were the day they got picked up. Its a cycle. So much money is lost on the neverending battle, its rediculous. Find another way......thats my only suggestion. FIND ANOTHER WAY!!

I love when people make that statement. Hey, I'd bust my a*s in a strawberry field, sweating for $25.00 to 35 bucks an hour. Why wouldn't I ever get PAID that much? Americans keep getting undercut by illegals. ILLEGALS do the job for a price that is ridiculous for Americans - because they have no choice. Stop acting like Americans are all lazy. The stupid toothless hicks in the south would do it if it wasn't for illegals. And I'm all for putting a bunch of welfare hicks to work. Get off the dole, no matter WHAT color you are. It's not that we wouldn't DO the jobs - it's that they don't pay enough for the amount of work. Illegals don't care, they just want some cash, so they take American's "slave" wage. Don't ask me to feel sorry that they settled for less. I'm a son of an immigrant, but not Mexican. My father had s**t - none of this "rights" stuff you guys demand. America IS where the poor, sick and huddled masses gather. But for safety, economic purposes etc etc etc, there is a process called LEGAL IMMIGRATION that benefits THOUSANDS of people, Mexicans included. It IS possible, AND LIKELY that too many illegal people add an unreasonable strain on resources in a given area. I've seen NOONE who supports illegals coming in admit that. But yet, it exists. What's one more person? 100 more people? 1000 more people, 10000 more people, 1000000000 more people? How about instead of deporting illegals, we offer the opportunity to join the armed forces for 8 years and they can "earn" their citizenship instead of waiting 10 years with no promises, AND allow them to send that check back to Mexico? That'd make both the liberals and conservative nutjobs find a compromise.

Thanks for nothing. You just admitted to doing the exact thing that raises my taxes. Way to go. As for the difference between getting hit by an old white lady and an ILLEGAL immigrant...if you can't figure it out, I'll clue you in. The old white lady had INSURANCE. The ILLEGAL immigrant does not. DUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How do people like you survive? Simple...there's nothing left to eat you.

To me, the ONLY issue is Legal vs. Illegal. I don't care if you are hispanic, black,white...whatever. It does not matter. This is not a race thing or an insult thing. It is simple economics. If you are here and are illegal that is the problem. It hurts everyone involved. Our social sevices cant handle the overload, and the taxpayers foot the bill. The taxpayers foot the bill. We cannot or [will not]take care of our legal citizens! If you are employing illegals, and not reporting and paying taxes, we all lose. AND, it IS illegal to hire an undocumented worker. I personally like the Mexican people I know and have dealt with, and am alive only because of a Mexican neighbor. I was in an apartment fire in Phoenix and was sleeping. My apartment had flames coming in everywhere, and full of toxic smoke. Everyone else left, and this lady came upstairs thru the fire and kicked in my window and screamed at me until I got out of bed. I feel that everyone is entitled to a better life, but please, just do it legally.

Ian said it best in his post so I won't even try to reiterate. The immigrants are not the problem, I hire them all the time and pay them fairly to do odd stuff around my yard. They were so happy when I brought out some beer, chips, salsa and let them listen to the boom box. They work hard and having done manual labor as a white woman hell, I know firsthand. I work with immigrants all the time in the horse world - Mexican, Guatamalan, Cuban etc. They are not all "Mexican" that's profiling and rude. They come from everywhere and like Ian said, you can't round them up and put them on a truck to Mexico, they'd have to be brought back to where they came from. I was hit by a drunk immigrant worker once at a light and y'know, I was also hit my a damned old white lady who really could have killed me. What's worse? My last 2cents is that "Hispanic" or "Latino" immigrants aren't the serial killers or the folks who hijacked planes in NY. Do they put a strain on the healthcare system - well yes, but so do all the unwed Mothers who are Americans and live off the access program and welfare. Shall we get rid of them too? Oh, my favorite is this: Immigrants often don't make enough to pay child support, so we throw them in jail - wards of the state got it? Old Pedro can't pay of $20K in arrears in his lifetime, so he sits in jail on our tax dollars. Brilliant! Yeah, I'll be hiring white folks to do my yard work real soon. Got a quote from one guy who wanted $800 to do a 1 hour job that was only trimming a tiny bit of bushes, raking and hauling some leaves I raked myself. I'll tell you what, I'll go to Home Depot and pick up some workers and pay them - it will be fairly priced, well done and most of all APPRECIATED.

Ian said it best in his post so I won't even try to reiterate. The immigrants are not the problem, I hire them all the time and pay them fairly to do odd stuff around my yard. They were so happy when I brought out some beer, chips, salsa and let them listen to the boom box. They work hard and having done manual labor as a white woman hell, I know firsthand. I work with immigrants all the time in the horse world - Mexican, Guatamalan, Cuban etc. They are not all "Mexican" that's profiling and rude. They come from everywhere and like Ian said, you can't round them up and put them on a truck to Mexico, they'd have to be brought back to where they came from. I was hit by a drunk immigrant worker once at a light and y'know, I was also hit my a damned old white lady who really could have killed me. What's worse? My last 2cents is that "Hispanic" or "Latino" immigrants aren't the serial killers or the folks who hijacked planes in NY. Do they put a strain on the healthcare system - well yes, but so do all the unwed Mothers who are Americans and live off the access program and welfare. Shall we get rid of them too? Oh, my favorite is this: Immigrants often don't make enough to pay child support, so we throw them in jail - wards of the state got it? Old Pedro can't pay of $20K in arrears in his lifetime, so he sits in jail on our tax dollars. Brilliant! Yeah, I'll be hiring white folks to do my yard work real soon. Got a quote from one guy who wanted $800 to do a 1 hour job that was only trimming a tiny bit of bushes, raking and hauling some leaves I raked myself. I'll tell you what, I'll go to Home Depot and pick up some workers and pay them - it will be fairly priced, well done and most of all APPRECIATED.

Ian said it best in his post so I won't even try to reiterate. The immigrants are not the problem, I hire them all the time and pay them fairly to do odd stuff around my yard. They were so happy when I brought out some beer, chips, salsa and let them listen to the boom box. They work hard and having done manual labor as a white woman hell, I know firsthand. I work with immigrants all the time in the horse world - Mexican, Guatamalan, Cuban etc. They are not all "Mexican" that's profiling and rude. They come from everywhere and like Ian said, you can't round them up and put them on a truck to Mexico, they'd have to be brought back to where they came from. I was hit by a drunk immigrant worker once at a light and y'know, I was also hit my a damned old white lady who really could have killed me. What's worse? My last 2cents is that "Hispanic" or "Latino" immigrants aren't the serial killers or the folks who hijacked planes in NY. Do they put a strain on the healthcare system - well yes, but so do all the unwed Mothers who are Americans and live off the access program and welfare. Shall we get rid of them too? Oh, my favorite is this: Immigrants often don't make enough to pay child support, so we throw them in jail - wards of the state got it? Old Pedro can't pay of $20K in arrears in his lifetime, so he sits in jail on our tax dollars. Brilliant! Yeah, I'll be hiring white folks to do my yard work real soon. Got a quote from one guy who wanted $800 to do a 1 hour job that was only trimming a tiny bit of bushes, raking and hauling some leaves I raked myself. I'll tell you what, I'll go to Home Depot and pick up some workers and pay them - it will be fairly priced, well done and most of all APPRECIATED.

Its been awhile since i've said anything, so let me try to catch up....FIRST of all, WETBACK is a slur. Just like n****r, Kyke, Spic, etc...Show some respect. Second of all, if you're gonna sit here and degrade us by saying "we plop em out faster than a tortilla factory" at least try not to mispell your insults. Its "Mija" and "Mijo"... Third, I know more white people on welfare with more kids than the Bradys than i do mexicans. Why? Because the mexicans make too much for those benifits... and Fourth....If i see another person say they are supporting these people, taxwise, i'm gonna freaking implode. Do some goddamn research. These people get taxed, just like the rest of us do. (EXCEPT the ones that get paid under the table.) BILLIONS of dollars, mind you, get taken from these workers a year. But, at the end of the year, goes unclaimed, because they cant FILE TAXES. They cost the state 3 BILLION dollars in unpaid medical bills, services, and benifits...yes. I wont argue with that. But the state KEEPS 5 BILLION. To the comment about "Why dont these people think for themselves before taking that ride with the coyote?" Did it ever occur to you that alot of these people are willing to risk their lives for jobs that most of you wont do? THEIR LIVES!!! THAT'S how bad it is in Mexico. Did you know that for a worker in mexico, the average take home pay a day is $1.25? You try to live off of that. And whats with the "infested" comment? They're not insects. That comment offends me. Brenda seems a bit TOO angry. Shooting them and throwing the bodies back over the fence?? America was NOT an english speaking country until the british came here and RAPED the natives for it... so lets not act like WHITE people are the victims here. As a matter of fact, i just read up on how we came to aqcuire most of the western US from mexico....Thieving bastards... The war itself was to defend the annexation of Texas and establish the Rio Grande as its border... But no...It couldnt POSSIBLY end there. President James "Land Hungry" Polk saw it as a way to aqcuire the MEXICAN territories of California and New Mexico. Did you know that the AMERICAN mood at the time was that of "Manifest Destiny"? For those morons out there, that is an "idea" of a "God given right to expand their territory". So, as fate would have it, once America won the war, they took California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Wyoming.....So, "Technically" they're not here illegaly...if they were already here, before it was "STOLEN", then I guess they sorta get "grandfathered", wouldnt you say? I mean, come on...we cant have a double standard, can we? Oh....wait....yes we can. We're AMERICA! For the military guy....My best friend is retired navy and is pretty well off...he doesnt seem to have any issues with illegal immigration being a problem for his benifits. Seems to me like Uncle Sam is just givin you the ol' "shaft" and putting it on "Juan's" back. Lets just all put our problems on the illegal immigrant. My grandfather just died last week. I blame the mexicans. There's a fire up in Payson...I blame the mexicans. Lets just pin the entire goddamn econimical problem on them, shall we? Lets not put the blame where it DESERVES to be. Lets blame the mexicans as a whole. But I ask you this...Why should the children suffer for things done by their parents? They want to deport the US born children to a country that most of them have ever known. How is that justified? The constitution says that anybody born on US soil is a naturalized citizen of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. That kinda creates a problem, doesnt it?

Admittedly I have not read the entire thred. I know I should but I can imagine that it follows the same format after the first fifty or so that I did read. First of all, let's put all the illegal and legal immigrant issued aside, and let me tell you about a socio-economic issue that I live through every single day. This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants, but rather the exact same effect that is happening in a different part of the United States. I live in the Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania. I have lived here my entire life and so has my mother's side for many generations and my father's for many less. He is Sicilian. Not many of us are Native Americans so I'm not whining here, just throwing out some facts. It is no secret that the Poconos has been a resort destination for many decades, nor (correct me if I'm wrong) is it a secret that Monroe county in the Poconos is the fastest growing county in the United States. Here is the "problem". Tens of thousands of families from New York City have moved into the Poconos for a "better life." I don't blame them. Better schools for their children, communities that aren't ridden with gangs and violence on a daily basis and a nice place to live. My father spent his childhood in a city and agrees this is far better than dealing with regular city life. Guess what has happened here? Tens of thousands make a daily commute from the Poconos to the city EACH and EVERY day. In my younger years I would think, "Why in the hell would you do that? Get a job around here so you don't have to drive that far." The answer to that became painfully obvious. The Poconos is a resort town that pays resort wages. Having been employed at many resorts over the years and being employed with many people from the city, I became aware of the drastic differences in the Poconos economy versus that of the City. We get paid miniumum wage or dan close near to it. There is truly only one real reason why people move here other than "a better life." Cost of living. A home here that costs $110,000 would go for roughly $3.1 million in the city. I'm not a realtor, but look this up for yourself. Don't even ask about the taxes. All I know is when new people move in and get their taxes due for the year they immediately call every relative they have in the City and flaunt it proudly that it is far lower than what they paid in the city. We have built over four new schools in the past ten years, to have EACH and EVERY one FULL by the end of the year. There have been cases of parents taking thier children from the city, dropping them off at a relative's and then enrolling them in our school system for "a better life," and then sometimes picking them up on the weekends. Many people just commute to city friday night, stay and work there all week, and then return home Sunday night. You wouldn't believe the traffinc on Interstate 80 unless you have lived in a city. For many City people this is nothing. But that is the point. For them it is nothing. For all of us who have been here the longest, we suffer from overcrowding, congested schools and roads and a general "dislike" for the city folk. The price of a home here is astonishing now. I'm not just talking regular inflation, but a massive increase. Numerous times (too many to count) when I am paired up with a worker that recently came in from the city they tell me the a couple of regular statements: "The Poconos suck and there is nothing to do here." "There are too many trees." "Everyone here is a redneck." "I can't believe I'm only making $6.00 an hour. I did the same thing in Manhatten for $25.00 an hour." They are not lying about the pay difference. That is EXACTLY why they make that commute weekly, and often daily. They make three to four times there doing the same thing they would here. They then buy a home here for "dirt cheap" in terms of thier own market in the city. Most people born and raised in this area have less and less money than the commuters, but are forced to deal with the raised prices of housing area and the immensely large population boom over the recent years. The locals really do suffer unless you own a business that caters to tourists. And don't tell me the money gets pumped back into system. We still get minimum wage. The price for an acre is now around $100,000 when twenty years ago it was aroun $150. The locals born and raised here can not afford that. The commuters can. And that is what is happening along the border states where illegal immigrants flock in. They may have slovenly living conditions, but I am willing to bet the recipients of their $50 - $100 a week are living like kings in Mexico. Just as the commuter of the family now living in the Poconos must suffer the City life and traffic each and every week, the family at home is living like kings compared to what they had in the city. I can see that many resent these illegal immigrants for many different reasons. As I stated before not many of us that post here are Native Americans, but I can %100 relate to the socio-economic effect that must be taking it's toll on those who live in those areas. The cultural impact has quite an effect too. I have found that most people from the city are against hunting and killing animals. When talking about hunting I am usually pounced upon by the city folk. They like to tell me how they would give a deer a gun and let it hunt me. I then tell them that the city they lived in has killed (by habitat reformation) nearly every native species known to it, and now the only species that truly thrive there are the ones that feed off of human waste; namely: cockroaches, pigeons and rats. I've been there. Just look around. They don't believe that their city was once in fact covered with wildlife. And so the cycle continues. I fear within twenty years when I take my children away from the Poconos for the weekend that we will be "the crazy out-of-towners" that stop the car in the middle of the road so the kids can see their first deer. The population explosion of the human race is really what we get angry about in my opinion when it comes to these matters of "border jumpers". It doesn't matter who they are, just that, they're not supposed to be "HERE." In OUR town, where we grew up. Taking OUR jobs, OUR land, rasing prices of everything and turning it into what we believe to be crap. Just think about it. The rest of world will eventually become what it is ultimately trying to escape. City life and civilization. Many people love the city and city life, but these numbers do not lie. Every single home builder's office in this area is SWAMPED with cars bearing New York license plates each and every day. There are no less than twenty of these offices along a one mile stretch I live on. They come up here and relative to what they have back home think this is absolutely wonderful. Only waiting an hour in traffic every day. There used to be NO traffic. I have thought about moving to a town recently that was once like the Poconos twenty year ago, but I'll be doing the same thing to them that's happeneing to me. I will deal with it for the sake of the others. Just think about it.

Illegals are ILLEGALS, no matter where they come from. Do the illegal mexicans not have enough sense to think for themselves before embarking on a journey with the Coyotes? Have they even heard of BIRTH CONTROL? They plop "mehas & mehoes" out faster than a tortillia factory. Than American Citizens get to foot the BILL for everything from FOOD STAMPS to EDUCATION (in spanish). If we could DEDUCT these expenses on our income taxes, we'd be RICH! Instead, we get to PAY for it. I'm sick & tired of supporting their asses! If mexico is that bad, they need to do something about it and STAY there. I wonder how many AMERICAN people it would take to go to Japan, France, Rome, or any other Country and expect THEM to learn English??? It wouldn't be a happening! When did we lose control of our Country? Our English Languge?

that is what they used to be called also my parents and 3 of my older siblings. And we were all born in the USA. Nobody cared when my parents lived in dirt floor tents went without. Now the illegals are doing the work, everyone is up in arms about their rights. The white people had no rights and they were born in this country. So as far as I am concerned there should be no help for the illegals. They are not any better than my family and we survived. Move on, Let them take their lumps like the "fruit tramps" before them

To all of you bleeding hearts out there. Just keep in mind what the word "ILLEGAL" means. The fact is that these wetbacks are here ILLEGALLY. That means that they ARE CRIMINALS. That is as simple as it gets. Nothing else matters. I served 10 years military. I am now a 30% disabled veteran. These wetbacks get more than I am entitled to. What's wrong with that picture? Just the cost of the welfare babies alone is killing our country. We simply cannot afford to have 11 MILLION non-taxpayers sucking up services. It is just common sense. Big business is the only one who benefits from having these illegals here. That is why nothing is done about it. They are the reason that wages have stagnated. I was making $7 an hour at a non union unskilled labor job in 1984, prior to going into the military. And this was in FL, the home of low wages. Today after the cost of living more than tripling, they are still offering that same $7-$8 an hour and act like they are doing you a favor! That is the true cost of wetbacks.

To all of you bleeding hearts out there. Just keep in mind what the word "ILLEGAL" means. The fact is that these wetbacks are here ILLEGALLY. That means that they ARE CRIMINALS. That is as simple as it gets. Nothing else matters. I served 10 years military. I am now a 30% disabled veteran. These wetbacks get more than I am entitled to. What's wrong with that picture? Just the cost of the welfare babies alone is killing our country. We simply cannot afford to have 11 MILLION non-taxpayers sucking up services. It is just common sense. Big business is the only one who benefits from having these illegals here. That is why nothing is done about it. They are the reason that wages have stagnated. I was making $7 an hour at a non union unskilled labor job in 1984, prior to going into the military. And this was in FL, the home of low wages. Today after the cost of living more than tripling, they are still offering that same $7-$8 an hour and act like they are doing you a favor! That is the true cost of wetbacks.

To all of you bleeding hearts out there. Just keep in mind what the word "ILLEGAL" means. The fact is that these wetbacks are here ILLEGALLY. That means that they ARE CRIMINALS. That is as simple as it gets. Nothing else matters. I served 10 years military. I am now a 30% disabled veteran. These wetbacks get more than I am entitled to. What's wrong with that picture? Just the cost of the welfare babies alone is killing our country. We simply cannot afford to have 11 MILLION non-taxpayers sucking up services. It is just common sense. Big business is the only one who benefits from having these illegals here. That is why nothing is done about it. They are the reason that wages have stagnated. I was making $7 an hour at a non union unskilled labor job in 1984, prior to going into the military. And this was in FL, the home of low wages. Today after the cost of living more than tripling, they are still offering that same $7-$8 an hour and act like they are doing you a favor! That is the true cost of wetbacks.

To all of you bleeding hearts out there. Just keep in mind what the word "ILLEGAL" means. The fact is that these wetbacks are here ILLEGALLY. That means that they ARE CRIMINALS. That is as simple as it gets. Nothing else matters. I served 10 years military. I am now a 30% disabled veteran. These wetbacks get more than I am entitled to. What's wrong with that picture? Just the cost of the welfare babies alone is killing our country. We simply cannot afford to have 11 MILLION non-taxpayers sucking up services. It is just common sense. Big business is the only one who benefits from having these illegals here. That is why nothing is done about it. They are the reason that wages have stagnated. I was making $7 an hour at a non union unskilled labor job in 1984, prior to going into the military. And this was in FL, the home of low wages. Today after the cost of living more than tripling, they are still offering that same $7-$8 an hour and act like they are doing you a favor! That is the true cost of wetbacks.

Perhaps neither Mexico NOR Mesa comprise dictatorships. Still, the net result is the same. The scumbags on both sides of the border make sure that the real, critical political issues are never openly discussed; a few families, wealthy and encsconced in politics for over a century, make all the genuine decisions, which is why Mexico has Pemex and the dunghole called Mesa has its useless, overblow, b.s. "Art Center", built with NO CHANCE whatsoever of serving any useful purpose or of making any money, at the absurd price for a crummy, third-rate venue like Mesa of somewhere around $100 million. Now, these same inbred deviant filth and the city council they own are discussing enacting a property tax to pay for THEIR various sins and ripoffs, and the overblown salaries of filth like themselves and the outgoing city manager, Hutchinson, whose crimes and those of his predecessor are so obvious, so public, and so immediately proved that, were there an honest court or prosecutor in this state (THAT'S A PURE OXYMORON), they'd be convicted of graft and malfeasance in a heartbeat. The esteemed maggot police chief, Dennis Donna, is also departing. His main sin, according to the corrupt weasels at BPOP/FOP, was trying to enact a "code of ethics" for Mesa cops. Doesn't that tell you where Mesa REALLY is? Illegals? Don't affect anglo jobs? Really! These "jobs" mostly pay less than minimum wage. If they paid seven or eight bucks an hour, I MYSELF WOULD HAVE TAKEN SOME OF THEM, rather than do what I do for a living. Don't kid yourself: all these criminals--and I mean the illegal aliens and the monkty-monk scum who run this city, including the city council--cost you loads of money, by depressing wages, by cheating you out of fines, by their very bogus acts. To hell with all of them!

I do not fault Mexicans for coming to this country, illegally or otherwise, to support their families, or ease their own suffering. I do fault American companies and individuals for exploiting these people for their own financial comfort. President Bush had done nothing to correct the illegal immigration situation because so many huge corporations (and wealthy individuals) depend on slave labor. The Democrats will do nothing to correct the situation because illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat in elections, though, of course, they have no legal right to vote in our elections at all. Any employer who pays an illegal Mexican immigrant less than he or she would have to pay an American citizen to do the same work should be prosecuted for human rights violations. The same goes for companies or individuals who make illegal immigrants live under horrible conditions. Such exploitation of the poor ("We're giving them more than they would get in Mexico") is absolutely evil, and no different than arbitrarily charging someone a million dollars for a kidney transplant to save his child. I believe the Law of Karma has a very special treat waiting for people who misuse others in this manner. If the entire U.S. economy collapses because illegal immigrants are no longer allowed to work here, so be it. Economic wealth based on misery and suffering is artificial to begin with. If people have to pay twice as much for fruits and vegetables, or clothes, so what? Do Americans really need all the junk they accumulate? If history teaches anything, it teaches that governments, cultures, and civilizations built on misery and exploitation ALL vanish in due time.

I do not fault Mexicans for coming to this country, illegally or otherwise, to support their families, or ease their own suffering. I do fault American companies and individuals for exploiting these people for their own financial comfort. President Bush had done nothing to correct the illegal immigration situation because so many huge corporations (and wealthy individuals) depend on slave labor. The Democrats will do nothing to correct the situation because illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat in elections, though, of course, they have no legal right to vote in our elections at all. Any employer who pays an illegal Mexican immigrant less than he or she would have to pay an American citizen to do the same work should be prosecuted for human rights violations. The same goes for companies or individuals who make illegal immigrants live under horrible conditions. Such exploitation of the poor ("We're giving them more than they would get in Mexico") is absolutely evil, and no different than arbitrarily charging someone a million dollars for a kidney transplant to save his child. I believe the Law of Karma has a very special treat waiting for people who misuse others in this manner. If the entire U.S. economy collapses because illegal immigrants are no longer allowed to work here, so be it. Economic wealth based on misery and suffering is artificial to begin with. If people have to pay twice as much for fruits and vegetables, or clothes, so what? Do Americans really need all the junk they accumulate? If history teaches anything, it teaches that governments, cultures, and civilizations built on misery and exploitation ALL vanish in due time.

I do not fault Mexicans for coming to this country, illegally or otherwise, to support their families, or ease their own suffering. I do fault American companies and individuals for exploiting these people for their own financial comfort. President Bush had done nothing to correct the illegal immigration situation because so many huge corporations (and wealthy individuals) depend on slave labor. The Democrats will do nothing to correct the situation because illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat in elections, though, of course, they have no legal right to vote in our elections at all. Any employer who pays an illegal Mexican immigrant less than he or she would have to pay an American citizen to do the same work should be prosecuted for human rights violations. The same goes for companies or individuals who make illegal immigrants live under horrible conditions. Such exploitation of the poor ("We're giving them more than they would get in Mexico") is absolutely evil, and no different than arbitrarily charging someone a million dollars for a kidney transplant to save his child. I believe the Law of Karma has a very special treat waiting for people who misuse others in this manner. If the entire U.S. economy collapses because illegal immigrants are no longer allowed to work here, so be it. Economic wealth based on misery and suffering is artificial to begin with. If people have to pay twice as much for fruits and vegetables, or clothes, so what? Do Americans really need all the junk they accumulate? If history teaches anything, it teaches that governments, cultures, and civilizations built on misery and exploitation ALL vanish in due time.

I do not fault Mexicans for coming to this country, illegally or otherwise, to support their families, or ease their own suffering. I do fault American companies and individuals for exploiting these people for their own financial comfort. President Bush had done nothing to correct the illegal immigration situation because so many huge corporations (and wealthy individuals) depend on slave labor. The Democrats will do nothing to correct the situation because illegal immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat in elections, though, of course, they have no legal right to vote in our elections at all. Any employer who pays an illegal Mexican immigrant less than he or she would have to pay an American citizen to do the same work should be prosecuted for human rights violations. The same goes for companies or individuals who make illegal immigrants live under horrible conditions. Such exploitation of the poor ("We're giving them more than they would get in Mexico") is absolutely evil, and no different than arbitrarily charging someone a million dollars for a kidney transplant to save his child. I believe the Law of Karma has a very special treat waiting for people who misuse others in this manner. If the entire U.S. economy collapses because illegal immigrants are no longer allowed to work here, so be it. Economic wealth based on misery and suffering is artificial to begin with. If people have to pay twice as much for fruits and vegetables, or clothes, so what? Do Americans really need all the junk they accumulate? If history teaches anything, it teaches that governments, cultures, and civilizations built on misery and exploitation ALL vanish in due time.

When I lived in Mesa & Casa Grande, AZ I did this on five separate occasions. The people I posed this question to did not know each other. All five of them stated that they did not wish to acquire American citizenship. They made it clear that they wanted to be Mexican citzens living in America rather than becoming American citizens. I also asked them if they spoke English. Again, the answer was no. My next question was whether or not any of them wanted to learn to speak it. Three of the five said they had no use for it because Spanish was spoken and understood everywhere they went. The other two people said they felt it was too difficult to learn. I realize that randomly asking five different people a few questions in no way resembles a scientific survey or poll. I also want to make it clear that the abuse and humiliation these people suffer at the hands of both Mexico and the United States is abhorrent. But the fact remains that Mexican citizens who break the law by coming here illegally and divide our nation by refusing to assimilate into our society are in the wrong here. Mexico is not governed by dictatorship. The Mexican people have a choice in their politics. With the advent of NAFTA, many American corporations are relocating their production operations there, so the jobs are available and forthcoming. I guess I just find it peculiar that Mexicans so loudly proclaim their love and admiration for their country at the same they are risking their lives to leave it.

I like the way people justify everything by the amount or development and money it affects. Take ILLEGAL immigration, for example. The author's justification amounts to providing sanctuary for undocumented workers because they are the ones providing Americans slave labor and the ability to buy milk and freshly picked strawberries. There are a lot of things that we benefit from when it comes cheap and ILLEGAL labor, much of them unnecessary. In fact, if it comes down to it, I will stop drinking strawberry shakes if I have to. But that's not the point. It's ILLEGAL to come into this country without the privilege of citizenship(for good reason). I live in a neighborhood which happens to be infested with illegals. And you know what, it is a crime infested, loud, miniature version of the third world, right here in sunny California. I love it. I think if people were less greedy and less willing to exploit, then we would never have (ILLEGAL) slave labor to begin with. These workers don't deserve to get dumped on the side of the street. Nor do they deserve privileges other immigrants acheive by fully legal means. America is the land of the free(read: not slave, economic or otherwise). If you care so much about illegals, then you should campaign for legalizing that which is illegal and dangerous to begin with, not aiding a festering problem. You are not doing them or us a favor either way.

Ok. I'll see you in the fields picking lettuce and strawberries. I dont care at this point what anybody has to say about this subject. Its not like anybody will ever agree on the subject any goddamn ways. All i'm trying to point out is the simple fact that this country is lazy. If these jobs were not available, there wouldn't be incentive for these people to come here. If they were not ABLE to get jobs illegally, then i'm pretty sure they would come here LEGALLY. And you know.... Unless they've harmed you directly, i say just get over the fact that they're here. Because a one man army isnt going to make one bit of difference. And as far as saying "They should be deported", i dont know if anybody knows this, but children of mexican immigrants arent very well liked back in Mexico. I saw that in phoenix, they were trying to send back the kids of illegal aliens who were going to school here and getting things straight for themselves. Over there, we're called "POCHOS". Do you know what that means? POCHO, means wetback. They dont want us here. They dont want us there....Ahh! Concentration camps. There's an option for all you anti-equal opportunity, freedom stealing, bigot bastards who think the best option is to send em all back. I'll said it again. If all the illegal immigrants just DISAPPEARED one night, this country's economy would crumble and the industries in which they work would crash. They're here and we need them. Face it. Deny it ALL you want, but they are needed. Unless you can round up all the lazy, depressed, jobless AMERICANS who REFUSE to work because they can collect welfare instead, and put them to work, then i see no validity in the arguements.And what good is a college education if you cant put it to use?

: I live in the same neighborhood they do and have all my life. I and my family are what they like to call "the working poor"... working nonstop just to stay alive. And, we all have college educations. Considering I have lived with illegals for more than two decades, have taken them into my own home when our neighbors hit "rock bottom" and befriended them, I think I have a clue about the way they live. And I'm still against illegal immigration. Mass generalizations don't always work. Try again, buddy.

I commented on this report a long time ago and there have been a lot of posts since then so I'll just respond to one from Octavio: "All europeans were immigrants to this country at one time for a better life. We are simply doing the same thing. Why was it ok for them to come and not the mexicans?. Hey Biggot's dont be so mad It's fair, You took our land so now were taking it back. As far as im concerned you guys are the " WETBACKS " So if you dont like the way things are, like you guys say ..GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY..(No disrispect to all the real Americans)" Mhmm, the difference being that I and ancestors came here legally! People from Mexico are free to come as long as they do it legally, I have no problem with that, stop trying to turn this into a racist thing! Plus my ancestors learned the language, something I barely see nowadays (I have lived in Phoenix for my entire life). Stop the cr*p about "we're taking it back", no you aren't. Ashley

I commented on this report a long time ago and there have been a lot of posts since then so I'll just respond to one from Octavio: "All europeans were immigrants to this country at one time for a better life. We are simply doing the same thing. Why was it ok for them to come and not the mexicans?. Hey Biggot's dont be so mad It's fair, You took our land so now were taking it back. As far as im concerned you guys are the " WETBACKS " So if you dont like the way things are, like you guys say ..GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY..(No disrispect to all the real Americans)" Mhmm, the difference being that I and ancestors came here legally! People from Mexico are free to come as long as they do it legally, I have no problem with that, stop trying to turn this into a racist thing! Plus my ancestors learned the language, something I barely see nowadays (I have lived in Phoenix for my entire life). Stop the cr*p about "we're taking it back", no you aren't. Ashley

I commented on this report a long time ago and there have been a lot of posts since then so I'll just respond to one from Octavio: "All europeans were immigrants to this country at one time for a better life. We are simply doing the same thing. Why was it ok for them to come and not the mexicans?. Hey Biggot's dont be so mad It's fair, You took our land so now were taking it back. As far as im concerned you guys are the " WETBACKS " So if you dont like the way things are, like you guys say ..GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY..(No disrispect to all the real Americans)" Mhmm, the difference being that I and ancestors came here legally! People from Mexico are free to come as long as they do it legally, I have no problem with that, stop trying to turn this into a racist thing! Plus my ancestors learned the language, something I barely see nowadays (I have lived in Phoenix for my entire life). Stop the cr*p about "we're taking it back", no you aren't. Ashley

I commented on this report a long time ago and there have been a lot of posts since then so I'll just respond to one from Octavio: "All europeans were immigrants to this country at one time for a better life. We are simply doing the same thing. Why was it ok for them to come and not the mexicans?. Hey Biggot's dont be so mad It's fair, You took our land so now were taking it back. As far as im concerned you guys are the " WETBACKS " So if you dont like the way things are, like you guys say ..GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY..(No disrispect to all the real Americans)" Mhmm, the difference being that I and ancestors came here legally! People from Mexico are free to come as long as they do it legally, I have no problem with that, stop trying to turn this into a racist thing! Plus my ancestors learned the language, something I barely see nowadays (I have lived in Phoenix for my entire life). Stop the cr*p about "we're taking it back", no you aren't. Ashley

Typo....Sorry, had a keyboard issue it seems. I meant 75 miles in to mexico. And the mexican government is more corrupt then the LAPD, NYPD, AND the Mafia all rolled into one ball...So, yea...good you have faith in THAT info...matter of fact, i dont have to prove jack s**t to you or anybody else for that matter. I know what i am and i know what i own, therefore i know what the truth is. I own about 500 acres of land, and plan to keep it in my own family...which I LEGALLY can. If I have a son, i can give it to him when I get older...nothin wrong with it. but yea...If you wanna speak technicalities, ANYBODY of European Decent, is not american, by blood...Granted, the spanish claimed most of this land on the west coast to the midwest...and yes, the "white" people dishonestly acquired it, but who are we to fight over something that was never EITHER of ours to begin with? You know...the borders are NEVER going to be closed off. The Borders are never going to be blocked to the point where NOBODY will be able to get through...Illegal Immigration was, is, and will probably always be a part of everyday life in the country...try as they may, the government will NEVER be able to entirely fix the problem...If they werent so focused on the black gold over in the middle east, they might have the money, resources, and man-power to do something about the problems in our country. Dont sit here and rip on people you dont know. Instead, write a letter to someone who will lie to you about doing something about it. or better yet...go protest somewhere and get tear gassed by the police...why put your trust into an entity who has no idea whats going on? How many of you people on this site live in border towns? How many of you personally know an illegal immigrant? How many of you have experienced the things that these people have? For all the people who dont know what its like to live in a ghetto and not have an education....SHUT IT. These people are doing what they know how to do...They're doing the best they can with what their government has given them...and if you go visit a border town...you'll see how much they have to work with...LOADS AND LOADS OF NOTHING. After you leave 6th grade you get a job. UNLESS your family can afford to send you to High School. Thats not very likely 90% of the time...And one more thing...you know something? I'm grateful that we have people here fu*king the system that fu*ks the people of its OWN country. I consider it Indirect Retribution. If you have a cooshy job somewhere and dont know what its like to live from dad to day, week to week....I suggest you find another topic of interest.

All europeans were immigrants to this country at one time for a better life. We are simply doing the same thing. Why was it ok for them to come and not the mexicans?. Hey Biggot's dont be so mad It's fair, You took our land so now were taking it back. As far as im concerned you guys are the " WETBACKS " So if you dont like the way things are, like you guys say ..GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY..(No disrispect to all the real Americans)

Wow...you bought land inside the fence. I get my information from the offical Mexican Government website. I would assume their Government knows what they are talking about. As for the issue at hand...I don't give a rat's a*s where someone comes from. If they are not in this country LEGALLY, throw them out.

Because I DO own property about 75 in from The Border. I dont know what you researched, or who lied to you, but for someone to tell me that I cant do something that i've already done, is funny. But lets refocus on the subject that was originally at hand...

You are NOT a Mexican Citizen if you cannot vote or purchase land inside the interior of the country. "Dual Citizenship" is less usefull than having a "Green Card" here in the US. Mexican Law provides that a Non-Mexican can aquire "immigrant" status after a few years, and thus "dual citizenship". But you cannot vote, and the only land you may purchase is on the coast. Until you gain this "Immigrant" staus, you cannot own land anywhere in Mexico. The land on the coast is worthless to the Mexican Government. The recourses are in the interior of the country. The only thing the Mexican Government sees from the coastal land is tax revenue. Also, if you leave Mexico to become a US Citizen, you become "dual citizenship" staus, and lose your voting and land rights in Mexico. Only the ILLEGALS living in the US retain their voting rights in Mexico. In other words, only REAL Mexicans are REAL citizens...sort of like how Rome ran things back in the day. Get it now, people? They get all of the benefits of living in the US(including welfare and other freebies), while paying nothing to either country in taxes, and still get to have full rights and priviledges as a Mexican Citizen. Good try Cory. Tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth next time. This is so easy to research.

Let me talk about what IS true. I have dual citizenship. I was NOT born in Mexico, yet, i have dual citizenship...I am a US Citizen AND a Mexican Citizen. I own property in Mexico AND in the US. Yet, you're telling me that we cant be Mexican citizens? Someone lied to you. Because I AM a mexican citizen, born in the US. They do grant dual citizenship. They Grant Full Citizenship. And I dont mean to sound like I'm talking about only Mexicans, but it seems to me that anybody with dark skin that speaks spanish is automatically assumed to be Mexican. That has been my personal experience. People will see a couple of South American guys or spaniards talkin, and turn and say somethin like, "Fu**ing Mexicans." They're ALWAYS assumed to be mexican. And the profiling is what pisses me off. After 9/11, people thought I was Middle Eastern. I guess its whatever flavor of the day on the hate calendar happens to be... I hate nobody, even though i've been wronged by many people. Alot of people hate without knowing who they hate. I do agree that they could be here legally if they wanted too...But the issue lies with the government. I'm for tighter borders myself, but I also believe that alot of these people have Justification in their reasons for coming here illegally. ALOT of them, not all of them. When they can come up with an honest solution the immigration problem, i'll be there to support it, as an American. But if it's unjust and unfair, you can bet i'll be there supporting those people.

Cory's remark about several Western states formerly being a part of Mexico & thus entitling all Mexicans residence(regardless of immigrant status) is very telling, and is also the reason I'm all in favor of stringent immigration enforcement. Unfortunately, far too many Mexicans share Cory's view that the American West is territory lost by unjust means, and that they have a right to reclaim it. In the eyes of many, the Mexican-American War never ended, and rampant, unchecked migration combined with a staunch refusal to assimilate into American society is the most effective way in which to fight this war. I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with illegal immigration if this agenda ceased to exist.

Cory, YOU need to step outside of your "box" NOBODY in here has even mentioned Mexicans as being the only problem with ILLEGAL immigration. They are one of the issues, but only one. The issue is ILLEGAL immigration. It doesn't matter where they came from. If they are not here LEGALLY, throw them out. Why is this difficult for you to understand? If you were to go to any other country on this planet ILLEGALLY, they would arrest you and throw you in jail. If, and when, the American Consulate found you, you MIGHT be allowed to leave. While in that jail, you would not be coddled as our prisoners are. Every other country on this planet understands the problems associated with ILLEGAL immigration, and does everything they can to combat it. By the way, Mexico has no means of becoming a citizen. If you are not born there, to Mexican parents, you will NEVER become a Mexican Citizen. Alot of countries are like that too. Yet, you want the US to ignore it's own laws and bend over backwards to help the Mexican ILLEGALS. Answer this for me, Cory. Why is it, in California, when the voters were asked if they wanted tighter border security and elimination of ALL "benefits" to ILLEGAL immigrants, the LEGAL immigrants voted "yes". That's right. That proposition passed with nearly 80% of the vote. Polls taken at the sites, showed LEGAL immigrants voting "yes" overwhelmingly. A Liberal Democrat Judge then threw the proposition out claiming "the voters did not understand the issue". Yes, Cory. The voters DID understand the issue.

The Vendetta of the Radical Muslims has nothing to do with Illegal Latino Immigrants...Granted, they were here illegally, and the Government KNEW they were here...knew WHO they were...Yet, lets blame the southern border situation on 9/11? Mexicans didnt fly those planes, my friend... And that has nothing to do with the people who are here trying to make an honest living. The government had everything to do with what happened on that sad day, whether you or anybody else wants to admit it. George Bush is NOT my president. I didnt vote for him, and I dont approve of anything he does, let alone the "No kids left a dime" bill. People of all races and creeds kill people everyday...nothing new to our country...yet they have brown skin and automatically they're bad people... Step outside your box, man...What about the immigrants and immigrants kids who were given citizenship when they wanted to join the military? They were willing to die for a country that didnt want them here. Why? I dont know for sure, but my guess is to prove that the american dream is still alive for anybody given the opportunity... Watch the movie "A Day Without A Mexican." I guarantee you that people would react that way if it really happened...

What do you care who or what somebody else marries? If a person is happy with someone and wants to make that commitment, who are you or the government to tell a person that they cant? Its hypocritical to call this country the land of the free, and the home of the brave. Free in whose eyes? Brave?? HA! People dont have the balls to stand up for what they believe anymore. They give all the power to the judges and the governors and senators....Let Gay people marry whoever they want. STAY OUT OF THEIR LIVES! They dont come into your home and wreck your lives. Stay out of theirs. Let people live the way they want to live. The minute people can mind their own business, we can truly call this the land of the free...

Cory, please go back to school We do not live in a Democracy. Democracy is mob rule. Our form of government is a Representative Republic. The two are worlds apart. And the people overturning laws the "people" want, are called Judges. They also happen to be Liberal Judges...the same Judges people like you seem to like. They are the ones who refuse to enforce the laws of this country, and tell the "people" who vote for something that the "people" just didn't ubderstand the issues. As for "Gay Marriage"...why bother. A homosexual man can marry a woman and vice-versa anytime he/she chooses. Why shouldn't homos ruin their lives as badly as heteros. As far as man-man, and woman-woman marriages, sure. How about a man and two women? A woman and two men? A man or woman and a dog? Horse? Cow? Tell you what Cory...you get a majority of American Citizens to petition their state and federal representatives to promote homosexual marriage, and maybe you'll get somewhere. As it is now, the majority of Americans are opposed to the idea. Since you think we live in a Democracy(mob rule), you should have no problem with the majority NOT allowing it.

I agree... *Applause* Something I had forgotten about... California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming...All stolen from Mexico. I think we could honestly say they have somewhat of a right to be here...And Yea... Original Americans, were the native americans. Lets take all the people of German Heritage and send em back to Germany. And the French Back to France(Or Canada). And so on and so forth... Lets just vacate the the entire country and leave the people who were here LEGALLY. Oh....wait....WE PUT THEM ON RESERVATIONS! How sad is that...we came over...took THEIR land...and told them where they COULD live... With all that this country has done to the native people, i think the government needs to zip it, unlock the gates, and leave em alone. The people in power have no business doing what they do. We're a democracy in which the people have no power... They ask us, "Which Laws would you LIKE to see passed?" We tell them. Then they turn around and say "Screw you. We want these laws". Then, when by a miracle, the law we vote for passes...THEY OVERTURN IT! The people whining about illegal immigrants are probably the same people who oppose gay marriage and everything else that DOESNT involve them...

You go to Mexico and do "whatever you want" as you say. Great, so can they. They visit here every day. Now, try staying there. Wait, you cannot. The Mexican police will haul you off to one of their fine jails and let you hang out there for awhile. Remember, you entered Mexico with the understanding that you will go home within 24 hours. Now, you are in Mexico ILLEGALLY. You see, Mexico actually enforces it's own immigration laws. Their southern border is having the same problems that our has. Of course, they don't have a bunch of bedwetters trying to figure out why their ILLEGAL immigrants should be sent back. They know why. Because they are entering the country ILLEGALLY! As for the price of lettuce, etc., it won't go up that much. Even if it does, that's the price we'll have to pay for securing our borders and enforcing our laws. Since this seems to be an issue the vast majority of Americans want taken care of, get ready to have your feelings hurt. Every poll taken puts illegal immigration and border security as the most important issue today. It has been since Sep 11, 2001. In case you forgot, that was the day when nearly two dozen ILLEGAL immigrants murdered thousands of American citizens. Get it? Got it? Good!

Lets say for a minute that we sent all illegal immigrants back to where ever they came from...Whether they be Mexican, Chinese, Honduran, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Venezuelen, Chilean, Columbian, etc... That would get rid of almost all fruit and vegetable laborers. Then We consider that restaurants and hotels lose most of their workers. I.E, Housekeeping, Maintenence, Groundskeepers. Then The golf courses...Then The Construction Contractors and The City And State Workers. Because yes....even the local and state governments hire illegal immigrants. Then we take it to the next level. The kids in our schools. Then, lets say that for the next step, we get rid of anything that was built by illegal immigrants. We get rid of the buildings, the parks, the libraries, the schools...ANYTHING built by illegal hands. Also...does anybody not see how screwed up it is, the fact that we can just waltz across a mexican border and do what we desire in THEIR country, yet, we still try to keep them out? I think that could have alot to do with illegal immigration. Why is it, that I can go to Mexico with NO I.D. and purchase some medication from a pharmacy, go have lunch at the park, and go to a club to drink and dance...And walk right back into the United States like I was never gone? Whats with all the Greedy "Get off of my dirt stay out of my country" attitudes? I just read in my local newspaper that they're trying to pass a bill that would make it so the children of illegal immigrants born in the US would be denied US Citizenship. Hmmm... I believe the 14th Amendment states, AND I QUOTE:"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." It says so in the constitution. No matter WHERE they are from or how they are here, they are entitled to the same rights as anybody else. I'll repeat...NOR SHALL ANY STATE DEPRIVE ANY PERSON OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW. Emphasis on the ANY PERSON part. This land was built of the foundation of freedom. The people who founded this country came here trying to escape the very things that this country is trying to do to these people. For a country that was built on freedom, it sure has spun the 180 into Hipocracy. Its sad to see how some people in this country still believe they actually have the right to keep people out...you know, considering that all of us on this board actually did something to earn our freedom. You know, we all went to war and fought for it...(sarcasm) I dont take for granted, what I have. And I sure as hell have no problem sharing it with someone who wants it just as much as I do.

As a white-Anglo-American who has actually lived among both Anglo-Americans, as well as Mexican-Americans......and even in Mxico for 3 years, I feel that my opinion is valid. First and foremost I would say that no one should classify anyone based on their race, social class, or legal status. Each individual is different. There are hard working Americans (such as myself and many people I know) and there are lazy Americans.....same goes with Mexican-Americans and Mexicans who are here illegally. The only thing that we should be discussing is whether or not these people should be here, and how we can keep them from having to deal with these conditions. I saw a post by someone in "antimexicanville California", or something to that effect. If they had half a brain, they would realize just how stupid that sounds. California technically is Mxico....we stole it from the Mexicans years ago.....and it will be theirs again in a few years......just look around. I live in California, and it is less and less "Anti-Mexican" each year.....please don't speak for the rest of us when you say bad things about them. Mexicans have a right to be here, just as anyone else. It doesn't matter how you got here, it is what you contribute. If you don't contribute to our society, you are "illegal". Everyone should have the right to have a chance to live a better life, no matter who they are. If people show that they don't want a better life, send them away. I would ask that everyone remember that the only "true Americans" are the Native Americans, the rest of us got here illegally. Deal with it.

In response to your opinion relative to Illegal Immigrants - Civil Rights Violations and Mistreatment, I have to say this: Define "Illegal" Immigrant. An Illegal Immigrant is just that, Illegal. When a U.S. citizen commits an "illegal" act, that U.S. citizen is held accountable in accordance with the law. Therefore, an "Illegal" Immigrant should also have to follow U.S. Laws. There are legal ways for "Illegal" Immigrants to become a U.S. citizen, and they should have to follow the proper steps to becoming a U.S. citizen, just as a U.S. citizen has proper steps to follow in visiting/residing in another country. Why should our hard earned tax dollars support illegal immigrants when there are elderly U.S. Citizens who can't afford their medications, health care, etc.? It's these elderly, hard working U.S. Citizens that are struggling with minimal Social Security checks, while Illegal Immigrants profit off our Welfare System and have done nothing to contribute to our society to earn this. I am not even going to get started on the crime rate factors allegedly associated with "Illegal" Immigrants. I see how Arizona has changed over the last 25 years and I just think it's a cryin' shame. I just think that it's very wrong for "Illegal" Immigrants to be here in the U.S. ILLEGALLY.

JESUS, PEOPLE! This stuff coming from people who LIVE IN AMERICA. A COUNTRY BUILT ON THE BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS OF IMMIGRANTS! I myself, being Hispanic, (mother is white, father is mexican), and having grown up in an Arizona Border town, know what its like out there. I have many family members that have come over here illegally from Mexico. Why? Because they were GUARANTEED jobs. JOBS THAT HAVE BEEN OPEN FOR MONTHS! you ever been in a kitchen in a Fancy Restaurant in a Tourist Town? In a RICH Tourist Town? You wont find a single white person in the kitchen, unless its a waiter, manager, or Maintenance guy. why? because other people wont wash dishes for 6-7 dollars an hour. These people live in harsh conditions because they're used to it. My fathers family is from a village in Mexico, where I spent alot of time growing up. 17 people in a 2 bedroom Trailer? LUXERY! They would DIE for a place like that to live. I used an outhouse in mexico for years. I bathed in a metal tub with water warmed on the stove mixed with well water. So? I used to work on my families ranch for fun. Yay! But to hear all of these people complain about "shutting down the borders" and "Shooting people on sight". WHAT THE HELL!? You go live in those conditions for 2 weeks, and i'll wait for YOU to come jumpin the border. These people come here for a better life. And what does the government do? They make it HARDER for them to get here. Does that seem to stop them? Nope. I think the attitude needs a 180, because illegal immigration will NEVER stop. The faster you find a way to shut em out, the faster they'll come up with ways to keep gettin through. And as far as the comments go about them using welfare and all that stuff...shut it. They've EARNED it. They pay, (and you can QUOTE ME) BILLIONS of dollars in taxes that they NEVER get back. They work for their money just like me and you, but the catch is, at the end of the year, they dont get it back. And those people ranting about "well, they cost the state of California over 3 billion dollars in unpaid medical bills." BOO-h*o! They never tell you about the 8 Billion dollars in Taxes they paid TO the state did they? Thats 5 Billion dollars right back to the state. Quit Crying about The "Crime" you say they bring. Name one Mexican Cannibal. Name One Mexican that came to school and shot 14 people. Sorry....those were white people. Mexicans Sell oranges on the Freeway. Black People sell ROSES on the freeway. White people hold up signs that say "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" or "HAVE ANY SPARE CHANGE?". Open your eyes, people. Where does the problem lie? Something I forgot to touch on. Go down to your local INS office and ask how long it would take to get a VISA for a mexican citizen. THAT would help you understand why most of them dont have YEARS to wait for one. My aunt has been waiting for one for 5 years. And her son, is a US Citizen. Its the Governments fault guys. They keep tightening protocols and regulations. THEY make the rules. Do some research...how many of our our politicians voted no for abortion. How many were Male? Now ask, How many of our politicians are of Hispanic desent? Now, How many will vote for a compromise? I rest my case. Race, Stereotyping, and Profiling STILL run this country. "We cant let the mexicans in, because they're dirty, they steal and kill, and so on and so forth..." Why dont you people worry about the AMERICAN CITIZENS sitting at home collecting disability, from your pocket, because they got a hangnail? Or the thousands of unemployed people (people NOT of hispanic or african desent) collecting welfare with 6 kids out of wedlock. Why does the welfare issue ALWAYS come back to minorities? Oh thats right...White people are perfect in this country....unless of course they live in trailers....THEN they're considered a minority...I know more WHITE meth smokers, Coke Fiends, and Crackheads, then I do mexican. And i know ALOT of people. And if the drug issue hasnt been covered yet...Its a money issue. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Focus on the big things going on before you belittle the working people.

It made absolutely no sense whatsoever though. This thread is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, not old songs or old people. Anyone can come to this country LEGALLY. Mexicans are the only people who come here ILLEGALLY. They can do it for FREE the legal way, and their own Government will help them do it, yet they choose to cross ILLEGALLY for some reason. EVERY other country in the world patrols their borders and ejects or imprisons the "crossers". The US is the ONLY country that does not, and it is costing us plenty. This problem can be solved quite easiy if the Feds wanted to do it. Patrol the border with troops. Give the troops "shoot to kill" orders and the flow of ILLEGALS will stop immediately. Right now, the Border Patrol just zip-ties them and sends them back. Catch and release. Half the time, the INS doesn't even bother actually sending them back...Too many bedwetting do-gooders in their management.

Mark in CA I can not say that I know the whole scope pertaining to the illegal/legal issue however I would be willing to foot the bill for a child's welfare just as I do for legals here in the states that will not get off their butts to provide for their kids and elders. I do agree that there should be fines for illegal actions but also from a moral standpoint feel all have the right to live. If it were the only way to care for my kids, I would do it too. The problem with society today is that they have been taught, If they have a heart they are weak when in reality if you have a hard heart it makes you weak. If everyone only looks out for their self then, who will look out for your loves ones if they are in need or you for that matter? There are strengths in numbers, which reminds me of an old songOne is the loneliest number. I have taken care of many elderly and the constant things they regretbeing alone, mistreating others and divorce.

The illegals choose to work here illegal because the cant be bothered to do it the right way,as i said before fine the ones who hire the illegals and give them a criminal record it will stop the problem dead in its tracks.If there is no money yes money to be made the illegals would never come here.So all the selfish people who hire illegal immigrants to save a couple of bucks will not hire illegals if there are steep fines and a criminal record to go with it. it will make them think long and hard about what they do since it will hurt them extremely financial wise.So if you feel sorry for these illegals so much then you foot the bill for health care,auto insurance ,work comp insurance, schools,high rent, etc... I cant sympathize for someone who breaks the law knowingly and willingly.

I am not saying that all employers are rated in this category but unfortunately most are. Some Facts:There are approximately 16.5 million foreign-born workers in the United States. Between 1999 and 2000, while the number of occupational fatalities in the country decreased, there was a 5% increase in the number of fatalities among foreign-born workers, and a 12% increase in the number of Hispanic-worker deaths (even though the Hispanic/Latino workforce grew by only 6%). Death rose in 2004 from 5,559 to 5,703. Immigrant worker will gain little or no workers comp in the event of a death. The government has even posed as OSHA in order to get immigrant workers to come to meeting so they can be deported. Sad they can't even gain knowledge of what workers rights are. It doesn't really matter if someone came from Pluto, if they are working they should all be treated in the same manner. There are ones out their trying to change things, United Support & Memorial For Workplace Fatalities, COSH, Confined Space and many more. There is hope for the immoral way immigrants are treated!

look at all these stereo types some of you people are writing. stop being victims grow up. Lewis farrakhan is a separatist not like martin Luther king who was a unit er, the proof is in the actions he is all about money and separating us Americans is his agenda, there are radicals in all races of people. we are Americans before anything i think a lot of you have forgotten that we must stand together and rid our country of ILLEGAL I repeat ILLEGAL immigrants .People we can make a change vote and remember our government is for the people by the people.

Let me Tell you something just because people come to this country dosen't mean they can't gracefully display they own country after all this is a free country...i am an American born in texas but i feel very proud to come from a mexican family..now said that if you don't like for us MEXICAN to display our flag LOOK THE OTHER WAY...and as we have mexican reciving welfare because of necesity ...a see alot of white that just do it to BE lazy and don't want to work....I READ EVEY REPORT IN THIS PAGE AND SOME MAKE ME SO MAD BECAUSE UNTIL YOU HAVE LIVED UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS YOU CAN'T TALK!!!!!my husband is active duty in the USA ARMY fighting for all you people that some of u don't even deserve....So when you see all these hipanic soliders dying for all you white people THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU WRITE O COMMENT ....OR JUST THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT SADDENS ME TO THINK THAT THERE STILL PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN THIS WORLD Let me give yopu some advice ...WE ARE HERE TO STAY SO DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND IF IT WASAN'T FOR ALL THIS MEXICANS I DON'T THINK THE US WOULD FUNCTION! I'VE BEEN IN MANY PALCES AND EVERY WERE THERE RACIST PEOPLE AND GOOD PEOPLE BUT NOT ONCE HAS ONE WHITE PERSON MADA ME LOOK DOWN !!!! BE PROUD OF YOU NATIONALTY!!!!

As a black female, I have to say that some of you all brought up good points. I read in my history class(yes,I go to college) that slavery started with Spaniards and blacks were literally starting war amongst themselves and taking slaves. Europeans just simply picked up the tactic and made some money off of it. I am not a racist, I truly believe that in GOD's eyes we are all the same and if you have a prejudice against any thats your business but when you hit the heavenly gates, prepare to explain to God why you have a problem with one of HIS children. (very rarely do I get religious but I had to say that) I agree with a lot of the posters here as a minority, we need to shut the revolving door, you know why, because Americans are not accepted anywhere else in the world, unless they beg for the privilege, its good to be an American indeed. I dont want to hear about how the government cant protect the borders, thats how we lost 3000 people because no one was manning the barricades. I am against the war in Iraq but I support the troops and hope they can come home to their families instead of protecting a country who didnt ask our help. As far as I am concerned Saddam could have stayed with no WMD I still fail to see the threat he caused. Bin Laden is a confessed murderer and he is walking around free while we waste money on Saddam, WTF's wrong with this picture. I take offense to someone calling Louis Farrakhan a pimp to the black people, thats BS. I am not a Muslim, but that man is smart, intelligent with intellect and if it takes a brother like Farrakhan to encourage Black men to stand up and be men, so be it. He does not preach about hate. I am so sick of people whining hes preaching hate and the reason why Farrakhan has blacks for bodyguards and not whites is because he doesnt trust the same race of people that claim he preach hate with his life. Can you blame him? I have watched some of his speeches in Chicago and I have seen whites in the audience so Paul is off the mark entirely on that one. The revolving door is going to continue until the government decides to do something about it. Its not a whole lot that we litte citizens can do about that. I do agree though that if they are going to live here they should learn our language instead of the other way around. That doesnt make me racist it makes me practical.

Every country does it. Mexico is one of the very few countries that does not allow immigration INTO the country. You and I cannot own property there, ever. Only Mexican citizens can, and they will not allow anyone not born there to become a citizen. Mexico is far from being a "clean" place to live. In fact, Mexico City is the most polluted place on Earth. I'll take my chances with radiation, thank you. If you moved to another country, they are not going to do anything to accomodate you, including Mexico. If you do not learn the language fast, you will die, hungry and broke. The blathering on the Statue of Liberty was not put there by American citizens. It was put there by the same people who sent that Trojan Horse to us...the French. Just one more reason to hate the French. It even refers to the incoming boatloads of immigrants as "refuse"...that's "trash" to those of you who don't know the meaning. There were no slave ships or companies owned by whites. They were all Spanish owned and operated. Whites got rid of slavery, blacks in Africa still practice the trade today. Can you say "Sudan"? In fact, whites were the first slaves used in this country. Blacks became fashionable because they could not hide among the populationas a white English speaking person could. The first slaves here were Irish and Scot. John Paul(Jones) was a runaway slave...maybe you've heard of him. Blacks commit 80% of the crimes while being only 13% of the population. The sad fact is, 25% of all black men(16-40) is in prison or out on probation. Whites are an abberation in the criminal world. Check the figures for countries like Sweden, etc where blacks are almost nonexistent. So is crime. You claim the only blacks that committed crime are OJ and the Central Park thugs. Wake up. It wasn't a bunch of whites shooting at cops in New Orleans. Whites weren't the ones stealing the TV's and stereos. White cops weren't the ones being filmed looting along with the rest. Whites weren't the ones who started rioting after the LA Cops were aquitted. Whites didn't riot when OJ was aquitted. Whites didn't riot in Toledo this past weekend. Locally, when a crime is reported, the ID is basically the same each time...black male, blah, blah, blah. I'll take the company of large groups of whites over blacks, anyday. So will all of the race pimps like Jesse Jackson, and Lois Farakhan. Notice they both have to have bodyguards? They have no white people in their audiences, so the protection seems to be from blacks themselves. As for going to war, sometimes you have to do it. Even Switzerland knows this, they have a military too. I would hardly call making $400K/yr living like a King. That's the salary of the President. For nearly all of the candidates, this is a pay cut. As for the troops, they, like me, voluntarily enlisted and knew the risks going in. To whine about the job after the s**t hits the fan is childish and immature. In general, military compensation is adequate, and the re-enlistment numbers prove this. The only problem the military is having is with new recruitment. This is because the crybabies thought military service was just a free college education. Tough. You used to seem so reasonable, Paul. I hope you don't sit there all day wondering how else you can be self-hating and still be a productive member of society. Here's a hint. Go to Disneyland...relax.

There is plenty of housing available here in southern California. Of course, it starts at $1000 a month and goes up from there. Housing is expensive here. The freeways are crowded. During the peak hours, it's bumper to bumper traffic. Yes, maybe if we send all the immigrants back, there would be 1/3 less people here. That would mean 1/3 less cars on the freeway. But, do we have that right? I don't think so. I think we should share as much as possible. What does it say on the statue of liberty? I think it says that immigrants are welcome here. Plus, I got news for you. If the freakin' terrorists set off a dirty bomb here, we'd have to move to a clean place. That could be Mexico. If that happened, I'd want the Mexicans to share their land with me. So, that means I better share this space with them. I can't blame anybody for moving from a s**t place to a good one. They tried to keep the New Orleans residents on a bridge and wouldn't let them out, even as the flood waters were rising. Was that right? Yes, I see a lot of things in Spanish. But, most of the things are both Spanish and English. So, I can still read what is being said. Besides, what if I moved to a country like Germany? I'd like it if they'd put signs in both German and English. That way, immigrants like me could get along easier until I learned the language. I don't see a problem with helping the immigrants get by a little easier. I will say this. I'm a white male. And, white men have been cheating others since time began. We took all this land away from the Indians. Where are they now? Trash reservations. The s**t areas of the country. How was that right? Then, we exploited the black people. Brought them here in ships and sold them like animals. What the F was up with that? Hey, I use the N word as much as anyone else. I'm prejudiced. But, what happened to those Africans was SO FAR from right that I'm embarrassed to admit my race even did that. It's almost as bad as the freakin' holocaust. Then, white men still weren't done. They kept the women down. No right to vote. Less value than a man. It's still that way. Women always get the s**t end of the deal. Every time you turn around, the white men are hurting some other race. The police are still killing the black people. That's like an every-week thing here. Blacks are locked up more, and for longer. So are Hispanics. You know, when you get right down to it, white people are the problem. Always have been. Always will be. And, I say that as a WHITE MALE. A prejudice one, too. Yes, I'm prejudice, but it doesn't stop me from knowing right from wrong. The reality is that white men harm other races. Not the other way around. I can only think of two examples of black people who did bad. One was OJ and the other was the Central Park rapists who raped and attacked white women. Both of those things were wrong. But, that kind of thing goes on every day to black people. White people have been harming them since they got here. The ratio is a million to 1. Yes, I'm prejudice. But, the people that I'm prejudiced against never did anything to me. In fact, the Hispanic immigrants I got to know are all decent people. Hard working. Family values. This is the reality here. Yes, it's overcrowded. Yes, there are Spanish signs. But, for once, I try to get along and let these immigrants have a chance at some kind of a life here. The real problem is the government. They take my money and throw it away on nuclear weapons. They start wars that kill the soldiers. They live like kings while 1/8 of the country lives in poverty. When you sit down and see who really causes the problems, it's never the immigrants. All they try to do is carve out a better life. I may be prejudiced, but I sure as hell know right from wrong. And, most of the problems I see come from white men, not from the immigrants or blacks.

Paul, the last comment you made was a lot better than your first one, I must say. Let's get this straight though. I believe for most of us who have added to this post over the last few years, this is not about being racist. I emphasize MOST OF US, as I have seen quite a few racist postings. Its about the fact that soooo many Mexicans want to escape Mexico they are OVERCROWDING southern California. Do you disagree? You live in Anaheim, which is where I work. They are all over the place!! If you can buy products in the supermarket in Spanish, can take the freakin DMV test in Spanish ( which is absurd---if you can't speak the language, how can you read traffic signs??), Spanish billboards cover the cities, and everywhere you go you hear Spanish, don't you think that is overcrowding?? I would feel this exact same way if it was a flood of Russians coming over here or Chinese people. It's the concept! It is statistically proven the illegal population has added to the percentage of accidents cause by uninsured drivers. Does that not affect our economy here? A crime is being committed here and there needs to be a lot more done to enforce it. Bottom line! I certainly would never suggest the National Guard sitting at the border, picking people off but something else should be done. There needs to be strict consequences and the Mexicans who are thinking about running or swimming over here need know that.

Unless you live on an island all by yourself, you will need to get along with the rest of the people in the world. Yes, you can spend your days cursing every time you see a Mexican or an Asian immigrant. There are people who spend their whole lives doing that. Where does it get them? Hey, I'm just as racist as the next white man. But, I look at the reality of the world. The Mexican immigrants are the people who work to make my food. They take jobs in food processing plants for low wages. Some of them take hard manual labor jobs for low wages. Where is the harm in what they are doing? Immigrants are everywhere. The lady who cuts my hair is a Mexican immigrant. The restaurant that makes my tacos employs Mexican cooks. Now, I don't get involved with these people personally. But, all I see when I look at them is someone who is going to work each day and struggling to make a living. Just like the rest of us. Sure, I could point to their skin and use that as a reason to hate them. But, what possible good would that do me? If I replaced all the immigrants in this country with white people, would my life suddenly be a whole lot better? I can't see how. The immigrants here make little or no difference in the quality of my life. So, I leave them alone and concentrate on the real problems. The one thing I know is that life is short. So, I'm not going to waste one second of it thinking about all the hate and anger I have for some immigrant who does absolutely nothing to affect me. But, the rest of you are free to go on hating and cursing others. See where it gets you!

Paul your all over the place your all over the place with your statements and stereotypes. from what you write you seem racist against white people and if your white then the answer is you hate yourself. Look for a solution not a bunch of comments that are doing nothing to help out Americans and people trying to become Americans. You go right to race because you are ignorant and clueless about what is going on. This web site is not about boosting your ego its about resolution.

I don't care if you are white, black, brown Hispanic ,oriental European Canadian etc... if you illegal you are breaking the law. illegal is what? illegal against the law .All illegals hurt this country making it more difficult to get a job because illegals work for so much less, lets see they don't carry insurance you better have more than liability if you get in a wreck with an illegal what your not covered with just the min liability. second health insurance is non existent for the not wealthy people of this country. cost for rent is more since most Americans don't live with 20 to 30 other illegals that they split the rent with. You want to create jobs stop illegal immigration, want to be able to afford insurance stop illegal immigration, want to stop over crowded schools stop illegal immigration want to stop over priced rent stop illegal immigration supply and demand know who is coming in and out of your country stop illegal immigration. As for the Europeans taking the land yes and so did Indian tribes take from one another so did Africans so did English to the Scottish and Irish so did the Egyptians to the Jews not saying it was right but that has nothing to do with the people of today. its like saying your grandfather killed a innocent person are you responsible for that killing hell no. We must not forget but we must move on in order to be productive your family did have land taken away from them then claim it that is your right. The problem is that a lot of people like to be victims and that is their choice but your preaching to the wrong person here i don't want to hear your victim plea.Lets let illegals know that we are not going to stand for them coming into this country illegally if the want to come here do it the right way legal.People lets get off this race thing we are all of the same race the human race its ok to be proud of what you are but not to think your better than someone else that is plain wrong.the job creation would be securing our borders all around our country creating lots of jobs for all Americans, we need to punish the people that hire illigals with step and stiff penalties and make them pay for the deportation, this country will flourish if we stop this illegal immigration and to add it will be much safer and reward people that do it legal.

Patrick, what is so ridiculus about it? A lot of countries handle their borders this way. You obviously don't live in an area that has been overrun with ILLEGALS. When you have to pay more for a long distance call waiting for the Spanish menu to stop, are a victim of a crime by one of these people, or are turned down for a job because you don't speak Spanish, don't come whining to me about it. If these people can't come here legally, assimilate and learn English, they need to be thrown out! Americans are very hard workers, we have the lowest amount of vacation time of just about anyone in the world. A lot of jobs have been sent to Mexico (including my husbands), India, Asia, etc. This is big corporate greed, enabled by bribes (oops, lobbying) to goverment officials. Not only do they get cheap labor, they get tax breaks for destroying the American economy. How about that being ridiculus?

Brenda, do me just one favor. If anyone ask you what country you're from, don't let 'em know you live here. "If they step foot on American soil, shoot them and throw the bodies back over the fence. I bet they will quit coming here illegaly." What a ridiculous statement, and one which shows your complete lack of maturity. I'd rather we shoot all toothless inbreds..

I have mixed feelings about immigration, but would like to know why is Mexico so poor that the citizens want out, and why is it allowed to go on.. Maybe an armed revolution is called for, surely Mexico could be a great agricultural or manufacturing country and Mexicans only want jobs to feed their families. It just seems Mexico is overlooked when we want to shape the world, as in Iraq. I hate seeing illegals cross our borders because I know a percentage of them are criminals, but I don't blame otherwise honest people for trying to better their lives. The solution would seem to be to change their corrupt government.

I have mixed feelings about immigration, but would like to know why is Mexico so poor that the citizens want out, and why is it allowed to go on.. Maybe an armed revolution is called for, surely Mexico could be a great agricultural or manufacturing country and Mexicans only want jobs to feed their families. It just seems Mexico is overlooked when we want to shape the world, as in Iraq. I hate seeing illegals cross our borders because I know a percentage of them are criminals, but I don't blame otherwise honest people for trying to better their lives. The solution would seem to be to change their corrupt government.