• Report:  #7073

Complaint Review: CompUSA - Bridgeton Missouri

Reported By:
- Wright City, MO,

11970 St. Charles Rock Road Bridgeton, 63044 Missouri, U.S.A.
Tell us has your experience with this business or person been good? What's this?
My wife and I bought a computer at CompUSA over Memorial Day weekend. The store had an ad in the Sunday paper announcing rebate offers on some of their computers for the holiday weekend. The computer we bought was supposed to come with a $200 rebate from the manufacturer (Compaq) and a $250 CompUSA rebate. We carefully followed the instructions for returning the rebate forms and sent them in well before the deadline.

We waited and waited for the rebates and didn't hear anything for several months. Finally, we got a letter from Compaq saying our rebate request was denied because it had expired the day before we bought the computer. My wife looked at the copies of the rebate forms and sure enough the $200 rebate was only good until the 26th of May, 2001. We had bought the computer on the 27th, with the understanding that the rebate was good on computers purchased through the 28th. Unfortunately, we didn't save the CompUSA ad that showed the rebates, but we're pretty certain they advertised all rebates were good through the 28th.

We never did hear anything from the rebate we were supposed to get from CompUSA. Finally, we got on their web site and looked it up. It said our rebate request was denied because the UPC's were not included. Strange - I still have the boxes our computer, printer, and monitor came in, and they seem to be missing the UPC's. If we don't have them and CompUSA didn't get them, I'd like to know where they are! I know we followed the instructions on the rebate forms EXACTLY. I think the rebate offers were just a scam to get people to buy from CompUSA. The thing that makes me really mad is the fact that right across the street from the CompUSA store we bought the computer from is a Gateway store. And there's a Best Buy a couple of blocks down. We would have been so much better off to have gone to either one. I guarantee one thing - I'll never buy so much as an ink cartridge from CompUSA again!!!

Click here to read The *EDitorial: The Marketing Rebate Rip Off ...Manufactures invent reasons why not to pay the consumer

11 Updates & Rebuttals


Wright City,
CompUSA Rebate Scam

#2Author of original report

Wed, September 08, 2004

I am the original author on this complaint and I have been following this line of rebuttals with interest. First, let me say, Carrie, that your loyalty to your ex-employer is admirable, though I believe a bit misguided. I'm sure in your position you "saw it all" when it comes to the mistakes people make when sending in for rebates. As a long-time player of sweepstakes and such, I've learned to read the fine-print. If it says send in information on a 4 x 6 card, don't think they'll accept a 3 x 5 instead, etc. Rebates are very similar. I can assure you, when I sent in my rebates on my computer, I followed the instructions EXACTLY. I did NOT make any mistakes. And ultimately, since they couldn't find any REAL reason to deny my claim, CompUSA had to make up a lie to deny it. Now you can blame this on an overwhelmed fulfillment center, the manufacturer, or little green men, but when it comes right down to it, COMPUSA was the name on the website that denied my claim. As far as I'm concerned, they are the one's responsible. I have learned two things from this: 1.)CompUSA is not a reputable company and no longer deserves my business and 2.) If something is a good price, buy it; if it's only a good price after a mail-in rebate, forget it. Wait until it's on sale!


In response to Dan and Monica: The "rebate game" is difficult for consumers to understand... on purpose

#3UPDATE EX-employee responds

Sat, August 28, 2004

Dan: I completely understand your position on this issue. The way that the "rebate game" is played *is* quite difficult to understand for a lot of consumers, and I certainly can see why people get frustrated. I only hope that those who have read this particular report will gain understanding and knowledge that they can use, no matter where they choose to take their business. This is part of the reasont that CompUSA actually selected "certain people" (such as myself) to handle rebate issues specifically in their stores. When I first began working for them in 1995, the company didn't deal so much with fulfillment houses and special incentives. Of course, today it's a whole different ballgame, and they use rebates as any other retailer would to attempt to gain consumer confidence and to ensure repeat business. In my 7 year tenure, I have seen CompUSA grow from an upstart little company to quite a powerhouse in the retail world. But to summarize your remarks, price comparison without factoring a rebate is probably the best way to go, after all. *I* don't even shop at CompUSA, myself, unless it's for a part that I know I cannot get elsewhere (and CompUSA *is* good for that - they do have the ability to find any part, anywhere, if it's available). I'm addicted to eBay, personally. :) Monica: Excellent suggestions, and ones that a consumer would do well to follow.


Admin YOU WILL READ THIS IF YOU WANT YOUR REBATE..you can thank me later.

#4Consumer Suggestion

Wed, August 11, 2004

YOU WILL READ THIS IF YOU WANT YOUR REBATE..you can thank me later. These are the step of receiving your rebate. STEP 1: When you receive your rebate form from the store, online, etc---READ IT AS SOON AS YOU GET IT or before you leave the store. Why? Because you want to make sure the rebate terms & conditions apply to you. You may not agree with the Terms of the rebate. You can then make a judgement call to decide to keep or return the product. Once you sign the rebate form, you have agreed to the rebate terms & conditions. STEP 2: After you read the rebate form, entirely, follow the directions, meet the requirements, and do exactly as the form states from sending the receipt to cutting out the upc barcode. Don't forget to sign your rebate form. STEP 3: MAKE COPIES OF ALL DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED, including the completed rebate form, the receipt and the upc labels you mailed for your records.(This falls back on Step 2 on following directions.) STEP 4: Mail your rebate submission. For you late mailers, you may want to send yours certified mail with return receipt to show you submitted before the postmark deadline or ask the postal worker after they postmark stamped it, can you make a copy of the front of your envelope to have proof of mailing. Now anyone can do this step, if you like. STEP 5: You wait the weeks the rebate form have informed you to wait or when the checks will mail. Lets say you did not receive your check after those expired weeks. WOW! You have a copy of the rebate form, so you can call that toll-free number that was provided to you or visit the contact website to check status. Now what if the rebate center say, they didn't not get your submission. DOUBLE WOW!! You have a whole copy of your submission (the rebate form, receipt and upc labels) this was done in Step 3. Ask the rebate center for resubmission directions and they will provide you with that info. STEP 6: Make sure you redeem your rebate before six months from the purchase date. (If its a mfg rebate, they may last longer or shorter, of course you will already know this because you read your rebate form entirely.) WHY? Because remember your rebate form stated, the offer is no longer valid if not fully redeemed within six months from the last valid purchase date. So, if you call after six months you will get a big SOL. Do these steps and you will be all right. I cover the most expensive mistakes that consumers make. BELOW ARE SOME INFO THAT WILL HELP ALSO: The stores are not responsible for your rebate mistakes. If you have a mfg rebate, your signed rebate form is a contract between you and that mfg. If you do not get resolution from the mfg rebate center, you will need to contact the mfg. The mfg have control over their own rebates, not the stores. The store do not know if you did anything correctly or wrong so they will be no help to you. If you have a retailer rebate and you can not get resolution from the rebate center, contact the retailer corporate offices, not the stores. You may only contact the stores to get the corporate phone# if needed. *REMEMBER ALL THIS NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE WITHIN SIX MONTHS*


Saint Johns,
Response to Carrie, I see no need to provide my personal info any more than is absolutely necessary

#5Consumer Comment

Fri, February 20, 2004

Carrie - thank you for taking the time to further explain your position in regard to rebates. To be quite honest, I do not have copies of the back of my recipts. Like many consumers, I assumed that following the instructions on the front of the rebate form (which was printed out on the register at checkout) would be sufficient, since all relevant instructions appear to be on the front of the form. The front of the form is what I have copies of, and nowhere on these copies does it state that photocopies would be accepted. All the same, I personally have chosen to no longer participate in the rebate process, or at least take rebates into account in regard to price comparison. In other words, if I see an item for sale in a CompUSA, Staples, Best Buy etc circular, I will use the comparison price as the price of the item out the door. If I can find the item to be less expensive on EBay, Half.com, another internet retailer, or any other retailer for that matter, I will opt for the lower price, rebate not factored. That is not to say that I will no longer shop at CompUSA, but I will always shop for the best value before any rebate. If CompUSA gives me that best price, great! If not, so be it. The other concern I have is the amount of personal information required for submission of a rebate form, and how that information could be potentially either used by the retailer, or sold to a third party. As someone who is rather tired of receiving telemarketing calls, junk mail and spam e-mail, I see no need to provide my personal info any more than is absolutely necessary.


Good to see this topic's still being followed.

#6UPDATE EX-employee responds

Thu, February 19, 2004

Dan, I've read your post and I can immediately tell you what went wrong with your rebate. I left CompUSA's employ in 2002. I don't know when your difficulty occurred, but I know that at least as of 2002, CompUSA rebate slips would accept PHOTOCOPIES of both receipts and UPC barcodes. Therefore, the proper procedure would have been as follows: Rebate A from Manufacturer: Send the original UPC barcode and original receipt. Rebate B from CompUSA/TCA Fulfillment: Send a photocopy of the UPC barcode and photocopy of receipt. When there are two rebate offers, the safest course when you are not aware of what to do is to send all original materials with the MANUFACTURER'S rebate offer. CompUSA has never had a problem with accepting photocopies for their fulfillment house rebates - at least not during the time that I worked there. This may have changed in the last 2 1/2 years, but it was certainly the case when I was employed there. Also, I might point out that the terms and conditions of rebate offers are CLEARLY SPELLED OUT on the back of the form. In fine print, yes - but they are clearly there and accessible to anyone who cares to do the research. Most likely your Comp/TCA rebate slip stated "Photocopies accepted". It is understandable that most people would be confused by this, which is why it pays to do research before even attempting to send in for a rebate offer at all. If there are any questions about any rebate offers, the best thing to do is to request that you speak with the front end manager (NOT "the manager" - rebate coordinators work in the front office and are specially trained to deal with these situations) and ASK US. I was more than happy to answer any questions and assist customers in understanding the rebate process. If more people would admit that they don't understand how the rebate process works, then it would be my job to explain it and to make sure that those people got what they expected! There's no shame in admitting that you don't understand! As far as your question of "Why aren't the rebates offered together instead of separately?" - the answer is simple. Manufacturer-offered rebates cover a wide range of retailers, from CompUSA to Best Buy to Circuit City, on and on, etc., etc. These types of rebates can be used no matter where the product is purchased. Most of the time, a Western Digital-offered rebate is handled directly by Western Digital - no more, no less. You deal directly with the manufacturer in this case. CompUSA-offered rebates (or usually TCA Fulfillment House, although there are several in existence) can only be redeemed when the product in question is purchased AT CompUSA - nowhere else. That all comes back to the general idea of "Shop here! We're better". In this case, you deal with the fulfillment house that processes the information for CompUSA and the manufacturer. Both offers are "combined together" - or they seem to be - but in truth they are still two separate offers and need to be sent to separate places in order for you to receive all of your money. That's more or less how the "combination rebates" work. I was just speaking with a friend of mine about this issue and he wanted to know exactly what the role of the fulfillment houses, the manufacturer, and the stores work. Here's how I explained it to him. The manufacturer enters into an agreement to sell Product X exclusively through CompUSA, let's say. The manufacturer says, "Let's offer a rebate to get people to shop at your store and to get them to buy Product X." CompUSA says, "We can't process the information for your rebate. We don't have the staff to do this." Manufacturer says, "Neither do we. Let's call TCA (the fulfillment house). They can process the information *for* both of us." CompUSA says okay. TCA is called. "We'll process the information for your companies. But we require a fee to do this, because we have to pay our employees." Manufacturer agrees. CompUSA agrees. The rebate forms are printed and delivered to CompUSA. Product X goes on sale and people buy it. They fill out the rebate forms and send them to the address on the form - TCA's address. TCA processes Customer A's information. He filled it out properly - TCA cuts him a check. Customer A is happy. TCA processes Customer B's information. Customer B didn't do something right. TCA can't do anything with his paper. They throw it away. Customer B wonders why he didn't get his money. That's what they do. I hope that I've adequately explained the rebate process in clear terms. Of course, any further debate on this is more than welcomed, as I still endeavor to help people understand how it works. I still do not believe that CompUSA is doing anything out of the ordinary, or that they "don't care" about their customers - a lot of people state things like this in the heat of anger. Most of the employees and managers that I worked with at CompUSA were very understanding of the consumer's difficulties and were more than willing to work with them to resolve problems and answer questions. Thanks for hearing me out.


Saint Johns,
Who Has the Responsibility ..The rebate game - it's certainly a profitable gig for the big boys!

#7Consumer Comment

Wed, February 18, 2004

Carrie, you and other former employees of CompUSA continue to assert that the manufacturer, not the store, offers these rebates. If that is the case however, why do many products come with two separate rebates - one from the store, and one from the manufacturer? For instance, when I purchased my Western Digital hard drive from CompUSA, it came with a $10 "Western Digital" rebate, and a $40 "CompUSA" rebate. It it's all from the manufacturer, why is it not all one rebate? There seem to be a lot of problems with these items that come with "multiple rebates". Example - since the item I purchased was offered with two separate rebates, I was required to mail in two separate rebate forms, along with the original receipt for my purchase and the original UPC code. So I'm filing for two rebates, but there is only one original receipt and only one original UPC code. It doesn't take rocket science to conclude that I must mail both claims together, or else I will not qualify for one of my rebates. However, when I did just that, my larger rebate claim (the one offered by CompUSA) was declined. Reason? Because, as I was told, the two rebate claims were not supposed to be mailed together. Do you see the Catch 22 here? In order for me to have mailed my rebate claims separately, I would have to have two ORIGINAL receipts and two ORIGINAL UPC codes. Obviously, that is impossible, since we're talking about only ONE product. CompUSA gives me ONE original sales receipt, and the box for the item has ONE original UPC code. Now I know why multiple rebates are often offered - because, no matter which way you go, you are assured not to receive one of the rebates (usually, the greater of the two). The rebate game - it's certainly a profitable gig for the big boys!


With all respect, I DID read it the first time.

#8UPDATE EX-employee responds

Tue, June 24, 2003

EDitor, with all respect to you, I DID read your original post. You said that "most people do not request their rebates" - it must depend on the location, then, because nearly everyone that came in for a "special product" at my location DID pick up a form, and DID request one. My caseload at the Comp I worked for was extremely heavy, averaging about one thousand cases or more per month. These are "the rebates that went wrong", so to speak. When you factor in the folks that actually did read the forms and do all of what they were supposed to (or, the forms that the fulfillment houses MISSED - because that does happen!).... well, that's an awful lot of people requesting their money back, don't you think? The fulfillment houses "making up excuses" - you have a valid point on this, and part of the frustration of my job was getting around it! However, how can you "step up to bat" for a customer that did NOT do what was requested? If you are required to provide information A, B and C, what are you supposed to say when you call and they tell you, "Oh, well A and C were filled out but B wasn't provided?" Then what? I can't whip out an original UPC code and magically produce it for them. I've gone so far as to photocopy new boxes with their codes on them and send THOSE just so that the customer will get his money back - VERY unethical, but what am I supposed to do? It's either that or hear the customer tell me that my company "sucks" and we didn't do enough for him. Maybe even escalate the complaint higher! (It's been done. In seven years you see it ALL.) All because the customer DIDN'T DO WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. Fulfillment houses sometimes (no, more often than not) mess up - and I took care of those with usually no problem. But what about the people that DON'T do what they're supposed to do? >Companies like CompUSA, Circuit City, Office Max >and Staples need to start taking responsibility >for what they advertise. They can apply the >needed pressure on the manufacturer to help >their customer. This is what my job WAS - rebate coordinators deal straight with the fulfillment houses to assure that the customers receive their money. We do not DEAL with the manufacturers - the manufacturers go through the fulfillment houses. As stated in my original posting. The manufacturers will not deal with retailers on a one-on-one basis - the only contact that the manufacturers have with retailers is through the buying department, which is CORPORATE, not store level. The "lowly" cashier at the front of the store is NOT going to have any kind of control over your rebate - they are there to ring up your purchases, maybe answer a tech question or two, and tell you to have a nice day - that's it. As far as taking responsibility for what they advertise - what was my job for seven years, sitting on my tush and twiddling my thumbs? I solved rebate difficulties. I argued with fulfillment houses day and night. I argued with upper management day and night. I even argued with corporate HQ day and night! All so that the customer who didn't provide Information B could get his ten dollars back. The manufacturers of these products DO NOT DEAL with the retailers. We sell the stuff, you send in the forms and required materials to the fulfillment house. If you have a problem or a concern, come back to the store, we'll solve it for you. That's the point I'm trying to make. >These stores can hold back payment to the >manufactures until rebates are paid. *stifling hysterical laugh* Are you kidding me? If the store held back payments to the manufacturers, we wouldn't have anything to sell to you! There wouldn't be a problem with rebates then for sure, because we'd have nothing to sell! Another place out of business, which only means inflated costs for the same stuff elsewhere! That's a great idea! You must forgive my sarcasm, but that idea is nothing short of ludicrous. The manufacturers we deal with are nothing short of bill collectors in themselves - we pay them, we receive the stuff and in turn sell it to you. If that's the way you truly feel about it, why not just deal with Compaq or HP or Creative Labs (insert your manufacturer here) directly? Why even use a middleman (which is really what Comp is anyway) at all? >Again, this is how the store advertised to get >the customer in their store in the first place. And we want you to get your money, otherwise we wouldn't have gone to all of the bother of setting up a rebate program. But if you're talking about rights and responsibilities, let's consider this: Under the rebate program, 1. It is the right of the consumer to receive what he expected. (Merchandise as advertised, rebate money returned.) 2. It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the consumer to follow all requested guidelines to obtain that merchandise and money. (Consumer does not expect the "on-sale" merchandise 2 weeks after the sale ends, consumer fills out rebate form PROPERLY and sends it where it is required.) 3. It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the store to ensure that the consumer receives his rebate. (If the fulfillment house denies or refuses a claim, the store will step in and do everything it can to ensure the end result, be it a credit to the customer or otherwise.) 4. It is the right of the store (employees) NOT to be abused or to take personal blame for a consumer's mishaps. (Self-explanatory there, but also if the consumer did NOT follow #2, why should we be blamed for it?) I am all for consumers receiving what they're supposed to. If I DIDN'T feel this way, I wouldn't have been in the position I was at CompUSA for nearly seven years. Rebate coordinators work specifically with fulfillment houses AND with consumers to ensure that if a problem comes up, it's solved, no matter to what end it has to be done. However, if you and every other consumer wants the truth about why there's so many problems about CompUSA and rebates, I will tell you all the livelong day about it. I am not on anyone's "side" - Comp has a lot of problems both internal and external, no doubt about it, and I won't whitewash or attempt to make light of them. But the consumer is the other half of the equation and I REFUSE to sit here and say that the consumer is BLAMELESS in causing at least some of the problems that go on. In seven years, I've seen too much and I know that this is simply NOT the case. Your serve!


Rebuttal To EDitor's Rebuttal! ..EDitor Responds

#9UPDATE EX-employee responds

Sun, June 22, 2003

EDitor: Your comments about CompUSA's handling of rebate issues were sound, for the most part. However, your suggestion of electronically filling out rebate checks at the registers confounds me, to be honest. How difficult is it to fill out a piece of paper and mail it? I am a 7-year ex-employee of CompUSA. My official job title when I left was "rebate coordinator" - basically, I handled all of the problems and difficulties that customers had with rebate issues. A lot of the problem with this whole idea of rebates is that when the consumer runs into a snag with the fulfillment house, the first conclusion that they jump to is - it's immediately the store's fault. WE'RE the evil ones. In 99% of the cases that I handled for CompUSA, the reason that the consumer did not get their rebate was that THEY FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS ON THE REBATE FORM. Now, I'm aware that these fulfillment houses make you jump through hoops to get your money back - and I'm not saying that's right or the proper thing to do. It's all the more reason why if you're going to play what I call "the rebate game", you need to STOP and completely READ the terms on the form. If they require a UPC, fine. If they require a UPC and NO copies, fine. If they require your name, rank and serial number, provide it. If there are questions about a requirement on the form, there has never been any problem with your calling us at CompUSA and asking - we'll tell you exactly what to do in order to receive that money back! But.... nope. It's our fault, remember? I, Carrie, rebate coordinator, take the personal BLAME for your not receiving your money. I carry it home with me every day! That's the INSTANT response that customers have when they run into a problem like this. The fact is that these fulfillment houses receive up to ONE MILLION CLAIMS per month - no lie. (One of the TCA representatives told me this while I was working a case.) That doesn't surprise me - they're a national fulfillment house, serving ALL retailers. And that same representative told me that 99% of the time, there is something wrong with the way the customer handled the request - because they DIDN'T READ the form. Now, printing out the rebate form, pre-filled out, at the register - sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? Would solve all of the problems, wouldn't it? Think again. There's still the matter of the UPC/barcode. Which one to send. Copies or not? d**n, there's two offers, both want the original code, now what do I do? Instead of calling the store and asking, I'll just take my chances! Small wonder that two months later I'll get a rebate resolution case on my desk. Also, there's a problem with simply requesting the information at the register. I'd have to input the name/address/serial number - no problem, I can do that. Until the customer who's had a bad day comes in. Or until the customer who's paranoid about personal information shows up. "What do you need THAT for?" In a barking, snapping tone of voice that suggests I lay six foot under in the ground. Well, I'm sorry, sir, you want your money back, right? "You don't need THAT information, that's private!" *snap* Ahhh, but I'm sorry, sir, I DO. The rebate form requires that information. "I'll never shop here again!" *snap, stamping off into the sunset* In seven years, I've seen more of these customers than I would ever care to remember. The rebate issue will never be solved adequately to take care of EVERY customer's needs - the fulfillment houses hold complete control over the stores. And the manufacturers hold complete control over the fulfillment houses. What people REALLY ought to do, if they want instant rebates so badly, is to pressure the manufacturers to lower prices. Or get your local government involved. I know for a fact that all CompUSA stores in Connecticut are required to honor rebates instantly, IN store - because in Connecticut, that's a state law. Perhaps enough pressure on the rest of the state governments in the country, and it will be that way everywhere. It seems that enough people are upset about this - so if change is to be made, get involved. Talk to your representatives. Enough people, and you'll see change, quicker than you think. I'm sorry if I seem that I am ranting, but enough people simply do NOT understand how the "rebate game" works. Ask me. I know ALL about it. Maybe a little TOO much. Thanks for letting me speak.

Rebates are NOT the responsibility of CompUSA.


Sun, December 02, 2001

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]

Their relationship to the company: Supporter

Rebates are NOT the responsibility of CompUSA. They are actually handled completely by the MFG. It's there choice. Don't blame the store for something they have no part in. All they do is offer the rebate in hopes of saving you money that the MFG has. The MFG pays for the advertising as well.

EDitor's REBUTTAL to the above REBUTTAL .. BULL ..The Marketing Rebate Rip Off ...invent reasons not to pay the consumer. These stores have the power.


Sun, December 02, 2001

You go to the electronics store to buy a monitor, to the grocery store to buy baby food, or to an office supply store to buy pens. When you see the price you might consider the purchase, but when you see that there is an ever more substantial savings when you get money back that often completes the decision to make the purchase. However, here's the catchyou have to send in an original sales slip between certain purchase dates, provide the original UPC symbol or proof of purchase (you have to be careful because this can change from time to time), the original rebate coupon, and occasionally make additional purchases. You also need to use your bi-focals and a magnifying glass to read the fine print on the rebate coupon.

The truth of the matter is that most people do not request their rebates. Those who do request a rebate often do not get their money because the Fulfillment Houses invent reasons not to pay. It is just not a good idea generally to depend on rebates for this reason, but if you doDon't let them get away with it! Make sure that they make the Rip-off Report.

Companies like CompUSA need to start taking responsibility. They can apply the needed pressure to the manufacture to help their customer. These stores can hold back payment to the manufactures until rebates are paid. If these stores want the customer to come back, they better start doing the right thing.

Let's put a stop to the manufactures rebate fraud! Stores can fill out the REBATE form for the customer at the time of purchasing the merchandise and mail in the REBUATE and collect the checks for their customer. Automatically deducting the rebate from the purchase price for the customer. Gee, what a promotional idea to get customers!

Here are some examples of those complaints where the Fulfillment Houses have not fulfilled the deal.

Below are Rebate Rip-offs that have been reported by consumers to the Rip-off Report:

Trust me -- there is no mistake on their part!


Fri, October 12, 2001

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: [email protected]
Their name: C.D.

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Don't bet on Best Buy being any better. I just posted a Rip-Off report this week detailing their rebate scam that worked similarly. Trust me -- there is no mistake on their part! They want to honor as few claims as possible and this is how they do it.

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