Complaint Review: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints - Salt Lake City Utah

Do you think that Mitt Romney will run for President again in 2016?

Feel free to type in 284134 at this website and read what is posted in Consumer Comment #1 at Ripoff Report #284134 for important information. Ten months after that consumer comment was posted at this site, the stock market crashed and the financial system in the USA collapsed. Have a great day!

DeeLana, I read your response to Lyndon Lamborn's remarks and I have a rebuttal of my own.  You accuse him of not having his facts straight, yet your accusations are based more on emotion than fact. Here are the FACTS.

First, I would like to say that on your 4 reasons that make the church a rip off: All of the facts that you have used are misinterpretations of what the church is really all about.  You have taken the facts that you have learned and twisted them to make them fit the message you are trying to relay.

What facts have been twisted, DeeLana?   The FACT that Joseph Smith was found guilty of glass-looking?  If you read the transcript of the 1826 trial, you will learn that this trial was not about the Book of Mormon or gold plates, as you seem to think.  It was regarding his use of a peep stone to try to find buried treasure for people who paid him for this service.  Joseph never did find any buried treasure, and the nephews of one of his clients, Josiah Stowell, sued him in court for taking advantage of their uncle, and Joseph was found guilty.  This peep stone was the same one he used to put into his hat when he was transcribing the Book of Mormon. Here is a link for the FACTS:
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Joseph_Smith_and_money-digging

On your #4 reason you claim that they meddle in Politics. This is true of the members as we have the rights of any American! But of the Church as an establishment there is not. Members may participate in any political standing, whether by just voting or getting more involved. The organization as you call it, is not directly involved. We as members are not told who to vote for; only that we should follow our own instincts and vote for the people that best fit our needs as individuals not as a religion. Those in the north and south are not told to only vote for a particular party, but to vote for someone who has the qualities that we desire our government to have. If this comment is because we have members becoming government officials and some who are even vying for the job as President, it is the individuals choice, not the Organizations choice.

You are the ones who needs to get your FACTS straight, DeeLana.  You obviously did not do any research on the www.mormongate.com website, or you would have seen just how much the Church is involved in political fund raising and other political involvements to further its agenda.  Lamborn's argument did not have anything to do with individual members political involvements; it spoke entirely to the organization of the Church itself.  The documents on the mormongate website very clearly show letters written on official Church letterhead to Church officials and others on the subject of fund raising and other political involvements on these issues.

Second, I would like to address the issue of tithing. It isnt mandatory! It is a personal choice. Tithing is a very private matter that is mostly between the individual and the Lord. Our Members are not required to pay tithing, only encouraged to pay the tithe that the Lord has asked for everyone. It is in every Bible that I have ever seen no matter what version it is. If fear is used, then shame on the person who is doing so. The church itself does not use fear as a tool to make members pay. In the lessons that you describe you fail to mention that we repeat all of the Lords lessons to remind ourselves of what the Lord wants of his people.

Every topic from the faith of  mustard seed, to tithing, to living to the best of our ability, is discussed and re-discussed to keep the members as knowledgeable about the Lords gospel. It is true that the Lord doesnt need our money, but he wants to see if we are faithful and obedient enough to follow the commandments. Then the church uses this money to further the Lords teachings. Tithing and other offerings are used to do many good things within and without the church. You are correct that the church uses the money to build churches, temples, and to maintain those buildings. But there is more. It provides money for each ward, stake and branch to function. It helps the missionary program because it costs a lot of money to send our young men to places and feed them and get them to those places. It provides money to educate the youth. It provides the means to print the materials needed to inform people and teach the Lords gospel. It also helps pay for the work that we believe needs to be done in family history and temple work. It helps provide food, clothing and other materials to those who are in need. They donate so much money, food, and time to feed and clothe the poor. All of which are to better the people of the world, the Lord is Lord of all, not just the members of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

You are correct when you make the claim that without paying our tithing we are not allowed to participate in the Temple. But there is one thing you are missing. I am a full tithe payer and I personally do not pay a cent to the ward. I am not making any money and so I personally have no income. As such I am a full tithe payer. Until recently my husband had the same view you did on tithing. That it is just a way for the church to swindle us out of our money. Until the church helped us by paying our bills when we were down on our luck; there were no expectations for us to pay it back or any obligations that we had to do in order to receive the help. He has seen firsthand what the church truly is about when it comes to tithing. So there is no mind control, guilt trips, or schemes to get money. Our leaders are not sitting high on the hog because of this wealth. They are not treated like Kings while the rest of us break our backs to pay for them to do their callings. Every member is asked to do 100% to fulfill their callings no matter what the calling is.

If, as you say, there were no obligations that you had to do in order to receive church assistance,  that is a new policy for the church.  I served twice as a Relief Society President, and I know for a fact that the church has for years required those who receive church assistance to do some kind of job in return for receiving that assistance.  It was part of the whole mindset of not just giving out a dole, but to have the member provide some service in return. Ive known those who cleaned the building, worked in the Bishops storehouse, and did other services when they were receiving church assistance.   

Also, it is a fact that unless you are a full tithe payer, you cannot receive a temple recommend.  If you cannot go through the temple to receive your endowment and get eternally married, you will not be allowed to go into the highest kingdom in the next world.  According to statistics, this means that the majority of members of the Church will not be allowed into the highest heaven after they die.  For you to say that members are not required to pay tithing is a misnomer.

I am saddened to see that you have taken facts that are known and as I said before, twisted them to make sense for the purpose of this message. Your facts are incomplete and skewed. For starters had the trial of Joseph Smith been 6 years he would have been 20, beings that he was 14 at the time of the first vision.

You apparently did not read the article carefully.  The trial was in 1826, and since Joseph Smith was born in 1805, he was 19 years old at that time.  This was when he was still involved in money-digging.  These are the FACTS, unskewed and complete. 

If you study the life of Joseph Smith in its entirety, you would find that he was a simple man who lived simply. If he had been doing this as a business venture then he sure didnt live the high life.

On the contrary, he did live the high life.  He was supported by the church, who built him a Mansion House in Nauvoo, was elected the Mayor of that city, as well as General of the Nauvoo Militia, with 3,000 men under his command.  He loved to dress up in his uniform and ride his white horse around the town.  He had portraits drawn and painted of himself, he entertained frequently, took parties for steamboat rides on the river, and was known as a genial host to his guests.   He ran for political office and was considered next to God by his people.  Not exactly "a simple man who lived simply".

He was beaten, tarred and feathered, starved, and many times was imprisoned wrongly.

Much of the persecution that Joseph Smith endured was due to his teaching and secretly marrying many wives, some of them married to other men, and others as young as 14 years old.  The night he was tarred and feathered, he was almost castrated by a local doctor who at the last minute decided not to go through with it.  These men were furious with him for seducing their sisters and other female relatives, and secretly teaching other high officials in the church to do the same.  

I would like to know where it is that you get your information as to all of this.  

If you truly want to learn the facts of these things, all you have to do is a google search on Joseph Smith and Polyandry, Joseph Smith, General of the Nauvoo Militia, and other similar topics.  This link will show you the plural wives of Joseph Smith: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/94VB-H11

Here is a link to the churchs apologist webpage, FAIR, where they discuss the topic of Joseph Smiths many wives: http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Polyandry

Another website that is very well organized is http://www.mormonthink.com/

You have so many facts that if you truly knew the gospel then you wouldnt have your facts the way that they are in your long bashing of the church. Like your fact #4. The American history that it depicts does not have to be North America.  As to the trial of Joseph Smith in 1826, I think you need to get all the facts before you like others, claim that this is unaltered material that accuses Joseph Smith of any misdeeds. I would like to state that this document whether true or not has one flaw, in 1826 Joseph had seen the plates of gold, but had not been allowed to remove them from where he had found them. He was not able to do so until 1827! And further more was not able to be a glass looker as he had no access to the plates and the tools used to translate it until after this alleged trial!

No, DeeLana, you are the one who is basing her argument on something other than the FACTS.  This trial was not about the Book of Mormon.  It was about Josephs money-digging, where he took money from people in exchange for looking into his peep stone to find buried treasure.  So, your argument is based on a flawed premise.  But, since you brought up the subject of the Book of Mormon and the plates, it is a FACT that he did NOT use the gold plates in his transcription of the Book of Mormon.  He again used the rock in the hat method that he had previously used to search for buried treasure, for which he was found guilty of glass-looking.  See the July 1993 issue of the Ensign, p. 62, where Apostle Russell M. Nelson tells the story of how Joseph used the rock in his hat to dictate the Book of Mormon.  Interestingly, the photo that accompanies this story does not show Joseph translating as the story describes, but rather gives the false impression that he was using the gold plates.  This is one example of how the Church misrepresents the FACTS.   

As I read your message of the Churchs history and how it is a scam, I wish that you would dig deeper into the gospel itself. Base not your opinions on whether Joseph was credible or not, for most of what you read is here-say any way, but base it off of your own personal feelings.

DeeLana, this is the classic fall-back for anyone in the church who finds that the historical facts do not match what the church teaches about the origins of the only true and living church on the face of the earth.  Dont face the facts; just pray and get a warm feeling about it.  What if someone prays and does NOT get a warm feeling?  There must be many people who do that, because the missionaries teach thousands of people every day all over the world, but only a fraction of them consider that they have gotten that burning in their bosom.  I believe in having faith, but faith has to be based on the truth, not what I want to believe.  The Bible says, PROVE all things; hold fast that which is good. (I Thessalonians 5:21)  It also says that we cant always trust our hearts: the imagination of mans heart is evil from his youth(Genesis 8:21), and He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool (Proverbs 28:26).

Read the scriptures and pray earnestly to know if it is true or not true. Find out for yourself; do not let anything that you have read or heard sway you. If you have the same opinion when you are finished with the entire book and have prayed for an answer of the Lord, then good for you, but dont bash those who have the opinion that it is true.

DeeLana, do you really think that the author of this article has NOT read the scriptures many times? It is so trite to say, Read the scriptures and pray about it.  I have listened to Lyndons experience and I hear a man who has been an active, temple-recommend carrying member from his youth, one who served a mission and was raised in a True Blue Mormon family, who served in leadership positions, and you think he didnt read his scriptures and pray about it?  

My prayer is that you and those who have this opinion of the church would first seek the answers of the Lord.  

The Lord said to study it out in your mind, and then pray about it.  How can you receive a valid answer if you are asking with incomplete information?   

I have no right to bash the things that you believe in no matter what religion you are; and you have no right to bash anyone as well. We are on this earth to find for ourselves what we believe and to follow the counsels of the Lord. I do not go around condemning any other church for what their members do and neither should you.  

DeeLana, it is not bashing to tell the FACTS.  In fact, we have been told by an Apostle to expose any deception:   "This book (of Mormon) must be either true or false. If true, it is one of the most important messages ever sent from God... If false, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions... If, after a rigid examination, it be found an imposition, it should be extensively published to the world as such; the evidences and arguments on which the imposture was detected, should be clearly and logically stated, that those who have been sincerely yet unfortunately deceived, may perceive the nature of deception, and to be reclaimed, and that those who continue to publish the delusion may be exposed and silenced Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, Liverpool, 1851, pp. 1-2

If Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, and other aspects of the early history of the church cannot withstand scrutiny, they should be exposed. 

Are the Catholics scammers and liars, or the Baptists and so on, No, but many of their members lie, cheat and steal. But that does not mean that the religion can be categorized and generalized as thieves and liars. People no matter what religion are human and everyone of us have faults. Each of us no matter the belief are capable of terrible things.

Yes, human beings do lie, cheat, and steal.  However, we hold a prophet of God to a little higher standard because he claims to be speaking for and representing God. The church teaches that we must live a certain level of morality, such as being honest with our fellowmen, in order to warrant the companionship of the Holy Ghost.  It is Joseph Smiths dishonesty in deceiving his people by pretending to translate the Book of Mormon by using his peep stone in his hat, (not even using the gold plates); pretending to translate the Egyptian papyri for the Book of Abraham; pretending to be able to translate a portion of the fake Kinderhook plates; and repeatedly deceiving his own wife by secretly marrying other women, that tells me that he did NOT have the Holy Spirit with him to translate anything or to receive authority from God to do anything.  How could a man who was disobeying this basic principle of honesty possibly be a prophet of God?

I am sorry that you do not approve of the members of the Latter Day Saints to stay involved in their surroundings.

Lamborn did not say he did not approve of membersto stay involved in their surroundings.  Just because he is not staying involved in a manner you would approve does not mean he is not involved; he is.  He is involved in exposing the wicked imposition of which he has become aware.  

We like all human beings want our beliefs to be respected and upheld. Just as the Gays want to be allowed to be married, the LDS and many other religions have the desire to keep the Lords commandments that a man must marry a woman. We as Saints have the right to want to uphold our beliefs and have a say in our communities, governments and in the world.  The gospel of the Lord makes the statement of marriage and we stand behind what we believe.  

You have a perfect right to believe whatever you choose, but please do your homework so you can have the FACTS to uphold rather than misrepresentations.  

To make demands as to what the church must do in order for you to think they are not a scam is preposterous. That would be like telling you that you are to expose everything that you have in your life. You must tell the world how much money you have, make and what you do with it all!

There have been many people who have had to expose everything they have in their life, anyone running for public office or public appointment, for example.  Other churches make their financial dealings open to their members, why not the LDS church?  They used to do it until 1959, why not now?

As I said before, tithing is voluntary so that action is already taken care of.

Tithing is not voluntary if you have any desire to go to the temple and be allowed into the highest heaven after you die.   

Members are encouraged to learn of all the history and teachings that are in the church, if they chose to not learn it that is their business.  

Members are NOT encouraged to learn of the history of the origins of the church.  Those who do, even CES and Institute teachers, have been excommunicated for doing so. Ken Clark and Grant Palmer are two recent examples. The church makes a continual effort to misrepresent and cover up the FACTS about unpleasant aspects of early church history by glossing over them in manuals and lessons.  The FACTS are referred to as disease germs and those who expose them are reprimanded. google Boyd K. Packer's talk on 'spreading disease germs' for a chilling example of church censorship.

And meddling in politics is the right of every individual. Do you vote? Then you are a meddler too.

Wrong.  Voting is not meddling.  Using the combined power of millions of dollars and influencing followers to vote a certain way, is.  

Or like them are you just one that wants your voice heard? Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones?  

I have noticed that whenever someone can no longer argue their point substantively, they resort to personal attacks.  If you read his book, Standing for Something More, Lamborn is very candid about his life and the experience he had with the church.  You need to get your FACTS straight before making aspersions such as this.  

Have you noticed that the commercials portraying the Mormons are no longer being aired on TV like they were in 2011?

Have a great weekend!

Did you get a chance to 'Google' the following and watch the videos and read the related articles on the web?

1) ISRAELI CITIZENS COME UNDER FIRE AS WAR BREAKS OUT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS
2) DEATH TOLL RISES AS ISRAEL POUNDS GAZA STRIP

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Did you get a chance to watch the video listed in 'Consumer Comment #27'?

Feel free to 'Google' this- THE ASCENT OF MONEY PBS, and watch the episode entitled 'Bonds of War' on the web.

It appears that history is being repeated all over. Stock values were being kept high three hundred years ago because money was being printed and injected into the system, just as it is being done today. Property values also declined significantly three hundred years ago, just as they have in the past few years. People were also revolting against their governments three hundred years ago, just like they are doing today.

The money that was being printed and injected into the system three hundred years ago also caused inflation, just like it has today. Gasoline prices and food prices have risen dramatically in the past few years, right?

It looks as though another collapse of the system is imminent, in my opinion.

Have a nice day.

P.S. It also appears that another war, a big one, might break out soon in the Middle East. That could make oil prices soar to well over $150 a barrel, right? I just saw on the News today that gasoline prices are near $6 a gallon in California. 

Karl I will check it out Thanks and.Lyndon thanks for your book I will get it and send it to my sister after I read it. Unfortunately my sister is in deep with mormonism and will probably think your informative book is the devil as you know how mormons think !! But what's even worse is to think Mitt is trying to take over Presidency and America!! I know ALOT about this CULT and I'm EXTREMELY CONCERNED!! VOTE OBAMA VOTE VOTE VOTE!!

Feel free to 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED?, and go to the site with the five charts in order to see who ultimately controls the U.S. government and Wall Street.

Then 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED BANK WHO CONTROLS WHO VIDEO, and watch that video on the web for additional information.

Have a nice day.

Thank goodness we have freedom of speech to EDUCATE PEOPLE ON VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES. THINK ABOUT THIS TOO~~~if Mitt Romney became president how many of the radical Mormon mind control, crazy cult ideas would he TRY TO IMPOSE ON AMERICANS IN THEIR DAILY LIFE, one example, to take freedom of speech away as MORMONS HAVE MANY FREEDOMS TAKEN IN ORDER FOR THE church to be worth BILLIONS, IT REQUIRED the freedom to think independently and with FACTS to be stripped away in addition to using FEAR AMONGST THE FOLLOWERS.

Haha.... ha.  hahahaha.  hah... aaaaahhh.... hahahahahahahahahahaha! I love hate. Keep it coming!

Did you know that 100% of the politicians in America rely on handouts from the American people? Tax revenue from Americans, which could also be considered 'handouts', is what allows the politicians to have their wonderful salaries, health care, and pensions.

Feel free to learn more about the handouts that our politicians are receiving by 'Googling' the following video and watching it on the web- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM

Thank You

They are victims, entitled to handouts, who don't work, and he is NOT CONCERNED about "those" people because they will vote for Obama no matter what just like people will vote for him no matter what he does.

1. Entitled to handouts REALLY MITT, Wonder how many times YOU got HANDOUTS FROM YOUR DADDY, FROM BLINDED BRAIN WASHED MORMONS, POLITICAL DONATIONS AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE!!

2. VICTIMS, REALLY MITT, YOU KNOW PLENTY about VICTIMIZING!

3. Mitt thinks all that matters to get votes is power of money and he can do no wrong in eyes of mormons~ of course he knows they have been trained to ONLY believe what MORMONS TELL THEM.

BUT of course, intelligent rational people see Mitt for the INCOMPETENT, ARROGANT, LIAR THAT HE GENUINELY HAS PROVEN to be.

4. Mitt even said HIMSELF He does NOT care about those other people. WE MUST H AVE A PRESIDENT WHO CARES ABOUT MORE THAN HIS GROUPIES.

5. MORMONS THINK ONLY MORMONS ARE WORTHY OF GOING TO HEAVEN AND MEN TURN INTO GODS PLEASE, JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE HOW TO PUT YOURSELF ON A PEDESTAL!! Also good way to create more distrust.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN A MORMON, AND BY READING THEIR COMMENTS SHOWS WHY~ because mormons get real ugly when rational people use FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Has NOTHING TO DO WITH BASHING OR any other of their ridicules defensive ideas..

SIMPLY PUT ~~~MANY AMERICANS HAVE LEGITIMATE BIG CONCERNS ABOUT

MITT ~~~ YOU CAN READ HIS FACE AND EYES ALONE~~~

BUT SOME PEOPLE WOULD NOT KNOW IF A SNAKE BIT THEM

When I first started reading the first post that started the discussion, I wondered whether you were LDS in the past. Well, I guess now I have my answer. Thank you for mentioning that you used to be a member. Now my question is: what is it that you are afraid of? what is it that you don't want other people to know about yourself? What are you hiding? This happens a lot with ex-members, they try to find faults with the Church because they can't live up to the Church's teachings, or most often they have not been able to (adultery, not keeping the Word of Wisdom, etc.) It is much easier for them to blame the Church rather than to admit they are the ones who are wrong. 

Instead of going on and on about that, I will just quote the following:

Post by DeeLana Searle: 

" Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones? "

Post by HypnoToad:

" he's exploiting this website to sell his book" (talking about you of course)

"What these things always boil down to -- and have ever since there ever was a church anywhere -- is one of two things:
a) Guy joins church, can't uphold church standards, gets kicked out, rebels against church...not exactly like Cain and Abel, but you get the idea. Or b) Guy doesn't like church's position on something and tries to tear down church,
claiming to have secret information that illegitimizes church."

Personally, I would go with #1 in your case, but I'm convinced your reason is either one of them.

My dad showed me a video called "The Godmakers," when I was a child. It did not go as far as the Southpark episode in disclosing the fraudulent behavior of Joseph Smith, but focused on how the Mormon theology is distinct from Biblical Christianity.

In law school, I learned from a drinking buddy (ex-Mormon) about a what I now know is a common tale: his dad, like Joseph Smith at one point, was a free Mason. When the family took the plunge to become "temple Mormons" and the dad realized the ceremony was a copy of a free Mason ritual, he realized something was amiss, did some investigating, and eventually got the family out. This tale repeats itself with many Mason Mormons. This is an example of how right-thinking people behave when information comes to their attention. However, what a cult encourages people to do is not ask too many questions under penalty of ostracism from the collective: the typical way of handling dissent when they do not have answers. When people like Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck purport to have the intellect and integrity to unravel the enormous problems faced by the country/world, and cannot unravel a fraud so obvious to any reasonable person, there are only two conclusions that can be drawn: 1) They lack the intellectual capacity most possess to objectively consider facts; or 2)They choose to ignore the inconvenient facts because perpetuating the fraud is profitable to them.

Most Americans are largely ignorant of the shaky underpinnings, cultlike inner workings, and political meddling of the Mormon faith. My wife and I are dyed in the wool Republicans, but my wife still does not know if she can vote for a Mormon. If one of the Obama superpacs decides to donate 50 million dollars to one of the existing Christian organizations that exists solely for the purpose of informing Christians that mormonism is theologically distinct from Biblical Christianity, or the Obama pet DOJ should start getting a lot more agressive about investigating the clear evidence of LDS church political meddling, it could finally expose the LDS church on the grand scale that it has avoided to date with its influence peddling.

Mormonism to me is a veiled type of Judaism. Wikipedia has a long article comparing the two religions. You have to believe that ancient Jews came to America in 600BC, practiced Judaism, then Jesus came and converted them.....
The Book of Mormon tells of families of the Tribe of Manasseh and the Tribe of Ephraim that migrated from Jerusalem to an unknown location in the Americas. According to Mormon doctrine, this migration fulfilled the prophecy of Jacob on his son, Joseph: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall" (Genesis 49:22). The Book of Mormon also tells of a group from the Tribe of Judah who came to the Americas after its defeat by Babylon around 600 BCE.

Mormons baptize dead Jews!!!! That is common knowledge.
from wikipedia:
The doctrines of the Latter Day Saint movement, commonly referred to as Mormonism, teach that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel, or are adopted into it. As such, Judaism is foundational to the history of Mormonism; the Jewish people are considered a covenant people of God, held in high esteem, and are respected in the Mormon faith system. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is consequently very philo-Semitic in its doctrine.

and..
The LDS Church includes among its traditional symbols the Star of David, which has been the symbol of Judaism since at least the 13th century.[35] For the LDS Church, it represents the divine Israelite covenant, Israelite regathering, and affinity with Judaism; a Star of David is prominently depicted in a stained glass window in the landmark Salt Lake Assembly Hall.

They were undergarments similar to that of orthodox Jews. The believe when Jesus returns we will all become Jews. 

Jews and Mormons control our government and monetary system.

read the Ripoff Reports for important information if you have a mortgage in the USA.

Then type in all of the following at this site and read the Ripoff Reports for additional information if you have a mortgage-

MERRILL LYNCH
COUNTRYWIDE
GMAC
INDYMAC
LITTON LOAN
OCWEN
BANK OF AMERICA
WELLS FARGO
US BANK
CHASE
ONE WEST BANK
HAMP
MODIFICATION
MORTGAGE

I have had other TBMs (True Blue Mormons, or TaliBan Mormons) make similar assertions about my book - how it is just recycled this and old hat that. Then they read it and change their tune. Name me a book that delineates the points of mind control, and how the LDS church employs them.

Hmmn. Cat got your tongue? How many books have you read that describe how to recognize destructive mind control in organizations and how to avoid them? How many books discuss how religions in general, and the LDS faith specifically, prey on innate human biases to hem in their sheep? How many include a transcript of a disciplinary council? Contain a letter from the Stake President threatening to announce to all the wards in the stake my excommunication for apostasy? I could go on. The only reason I wrote a book was to compile all this helpful information for recovering ex-mormons and immunize never-mormons from its tentacles, because I could not locate a book which took this approach. And I looked. Your assertions regarding the content of my book are as shallow and they are disingenuous.

I could fill your mailbox with letters of appreciation from readers of my book.  I have shared a few of these letters with family and close friends, and some bring tears. It has simply been the most rewarding endeavor of my life to date.  It helps people.  Several have said they read the book more than once, it was so instructive.  Others said it has been their favorite recovery from Mormonism book.  I doubt the book will ever pay for itself, but that is beside the point. Doing the right thing has its own rewards. Filing a Ripoff Report is also the right thing to do, and has its rewards.

What counts for the most in the end is how we have treated other people, and leaving the world a better place than we found it.  You appear to be doing neither, based on what you have written in this forum.  

Hilarious, actually. This dude has written a book that nobody cares about and now he's pretending he's got scandalous information and he's exploiting this website to sell his book. Look how silly this is:

From all the complaining he's written, it's clear that he's recycled the same old garbage these guys have been selling for years. Yes, I'm a member of the LDS church. I read all the anti-Mormon books I could get my hands on years ago (all very subjective, never found one I was impressed with) and nobody's ever got anything new. You might as well find an old "Godmakers" for $1 at a used bookstore, 'cuz I guarantee you this guy has nothing new. (NOW who's the ripoff artist?!) I got to the point where I would laughingly read these books and them recommend them to people in and out of my church because they're so insipid. I'm going to go waaaaay out on a limb here and tell you about this book that I have never read (because they're all the same). It starts out expressing great love for the Mormon people and that it was only written to help them. It says the real culprits are the secretive/conspiratorial octogenarians in Salt Lake who manipulate people (yet it will never explain why these old guys get their kicks doing so.) Of course, it will expose a bunch of "facts" about Joseph Smith that come from the same sort of hitpieces written generations ago. It will end up implying those Mormons (they they love so much!) are deluded, angry, weak-minded, dishonest people that you should avoid, because they'll SUCK YOU IN WITH THEIR POWERFUL BOOK OF MORMON! Yawn. Hey, let's take it up a notch and address some specific issues.

The church doesn't disclose its holdings? Scandalous! I don't know if this is specifically true or not. Don't care. That Time mag had an extensive article about it a few years ago, which is where the author got his info...and you could too. Why would you buy his book when the info is all out there free?

Does investing in stuff make you controversial? How many other churches have value in facilities they're not telling about? Hey, how much is the Vatican worth? The church has lots of value in holdings all over the world, and uses them for worship, information, genealogy, and enormous amounts of charitable giving to members and non-members alike. But when you start throwing around terms like "secret" (a la trashy gossip mags) then you sell books, right? I'm surprised you didn't get the word "shocking" in there somewhere; that sells too.

Tithing: (Extra funny charge alert!) The author apparently does not know that the word "tithe" literally means "tenth" and lots of churches have the same policy. (Scandalous!) You'll lose privileges for not paying tithing? WHOA! You'll also lose privileges for breaking the Ten Commandments. Tell me what church doesn't have similar policies. You'll also lose privileges for smoking dope in front of your kids. I don't see him getting all upset about that.

Sordid Origins: Yawn. When you convert to Jehovah's Witness..uh...ism, do they tell you about Millerites? Who started the Anabaptist movement? They don't tell you? Scandalous! Don't you know about all the early schisms in the Amish faith?! OH NO! Has there ever been a controversial event without another side of the story? "Hey, Brother New Convert, before you get baptized we just thought you ought to know that a bunch of soreheads from decades ago said a bunch of unpleasant things about Joseph Smith..." Yeah, OK.

Politics: Huge yawn. The church generally stays out of politics, but thought it imperative to get involved in Prop 8. Lots of Baptist and Pentecostal churches did the same thing. Why aren't you crying about them? And while we're at it, why aren't you crying about the tax-exempt status of Barack Obama's good Reverend Wright, whose fire-breathing politics are a main staple of his sermons? Why aren't you upset about Protestant churches all over the south who integrate politics and religion so much that nobody even thinks about it anymore? Why aren't you upset about churches that protest abortion clinics? That's a pretty politically charged topic, innit?

What these things always boil down to -- and have ever since there ever was a church anywhere -- is one of two things. a) Guy joins church, can't uphold church standards, gets kicked out, rebels against church...not exactly like Cain and Abel, but you get the idea. Or b) Guy doesn't like church's position on something and tries to tear down church, claiming to have secret information that illegitimizes church. Ya know, Peter, James and John dealt with these things too.

If you think this book might be interesting, go buy books by Ed Decker, Jim Spencer, Sandra Tanner, and countless other nobodies regurgitating each other's stuff. They all need a buck too.

The big problem with Mormonism is that it selectively presents its history and doctrine in such a way to to make it seem more believable than it is.  If the church taught the true story of how it was founded and the enormous amount of information that discredits it (such as anachronisms in the Book of Mormon) then far fewer people would ever consider joining the Mormon church.   This lack of disclosure before you join and start paying your membership dues (tithing) is unforgivable.

Good point Stacey, I did not describe my own experience, or how many $1000's I gave in good faith.  I am embarrassed to say I was bamboozled by the Mormon church until age 45, and gave in excess of $50 K, naively thinking I was doing the right thing.  I was shocked to find out the truth about the origins of the church.  Despite graduating from 4 years of seminary instruction, serving a full-time mission for 2 years, and serving in dozens of capacities ranging from scoutmaster to Branch President, I was never introduced to any of the 'warts' in church history or the incongruities in doctrinal claims.  I suppose it is not criminal behavior, but certainly unethical.  I have a first-hand appreciation for the song "The Man's Too Strong" by Dire Straits. 

And speaking of poems, here is one I wrote:

We have legalized robbery and called it faith, but that is not all;

We have exalted gullibility and called it faith.

We have censored the voice of reason, embraced delusions, and called it faith.

We have granted power to demons, feared the imaginary, and called it faith.

We have sanctioned discrimination and called it faith.

We have numbed our intellect with conformity and called it faith.

We have justified suppression of information and perpetuated lies and called it faith.

We have condoned inhumanity and called it faith.

Our elderly have abandoned life in preference for death and we called it faith.

We have surrendered our free will and called it faith.

We have declared ourselves the Chosen Ones, spat on our neighbor, and called it faith.

We have apologized for reality and called it faith.

We have traded sanity for security and called it faith.

We have abused our children with guilt and shame and unbridled fear and called it faith.

We have demeaned our women, esteemed them as property, and called it faith.

We have laid waste to families and called it faith.

I sit on the sand and feel the rhythm of the waves.

I lay down my burden and watch it dissolve with the tide.

The water and the sand and the sky become one.

I will study faith no more.

This so-called "church" is a cult.  It is erroneous in its teachings and it is practices that are contrary to mainline beliefs and mainline teachings found in the Bible

ITS A CULT 100%

Check out a book on cults and you will find them listed in there

Again I say they are a:

CULT

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1 / 2

2 / 2

3 / 2

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So, I have to disagree, but am open to examples if you can cite them.  Can you point out other religions which do all four of the objectionable things I mentioned?  I don't know of any which do not disclose their financials or withhold privileges for those who do not pay a full 10%...  I could be wrong, if so, please set me straight.  Many religions withhold information, and some meddle in politics, I will grant you those two points right off the bat. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  I have a very nice "END THE FED" shirt I wear quite often, and have been to a protest of the Federal Reserve.  Thanks for mentioning this other colossal ripoff!

First, I would like to say that on your 4 reasons that make the church a rip off: All of the facts that you have used are misinterpretations of what the church is really all about.  You have taken the facts that you have learned and twisted them to make them fit the message you are trying to relay.

On your #4 reason you claim that they meddle in Politics. This is true of the members as we have the rights of any American! But of the Church as an establishment there is not. Members may participate in any political standing, whether by just voting or getting more involved. The organization as you call it, is not directly involved. We as members are not told who to vote for; only that we should follow our own instincts and vote for the people that best fit our needs as individuals not as a religion. Those in the north and south are not told to only vote for a particular party, but to vote for someone who has the qualities that we desire
our government to have. If this comment is because we have members becoming
government officials and some who are even vying for the job as President, it
is the individuals choice, not the Organizations choice.

Second, I would like to address the issue of tithing. It isnt mandatory! It is a personal choice. Tithing is a very private matter that is mostly between the individual and the Lord. Our Members are not required to pay tithing, only encouraged to pay the tithe that the Lord has asked for everyone. It is in every Bible that I have ever seen no matter what version it is. If fear is used, then shame on the person who is doing so. The church itself does not use fear as a tool to make members pay. In the lessons that you describe you fail to mention that we repeat all of the Lords lessons to remind ourselves of what the Lord wants of his people.

Every topic from the faith of  mustard seed, to tithing, to living to the best of our ability, is discussed and re-discussed to keep the members as knowledgeable about the Lords gospel. It is true that the Lord doesnt need our money, but he wants to see if we are faithful and obedient enough to follow the commandments. Then the church uses this money to further the Lords teachings. Tithing and other offerings are used to do many good things within and without the church. You are correct that
the church uses the money to build churches, temples, and to maintain those
buildings. But there is more. It provides money for each ward, stake and branch
to function. It helps the missionary program because it costs a lot of money to
send our young men to places and feed them and get them to those places. It
provides money to educate the youth. It provides the means to print the
materials needed to inform people and teach the Lords gospel. It also helps
pay for the work that we believe needs to be done in family history and temple
work. It helps provide food, clothing and other materials to those who are in
need. They donate so much money, food, and time to feed and clothe the poor. All
of which are to better the people of the world, the Lord is Lord of all, not
just the members of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

You are correct when you make the claim that without paying our tithing we are not allowed to participate in the Temple. But there is one thing you are missing. I am a full tithe payer and I personally do not pay a cent to the ward. I am not making any money and so I personally have no income. As such I am a full tithe payer. Until recently my husband had the same view you did on tithing. That it is just a way for the church to swindle us out of our money. Until the church helped us by paying our bills when we were down on our luck; there were no expectations for us to pay it back or any obligations that we had to do in order to receive the help. He has seen firsthand what the church truly is about when it comes to tithing. So there is no mind control, guilt trips, or schemes to get money. Our leaders are not sitting high on the hog because of this wealth. They are not treated like Kings while the rest of us break our backs to pay for them to do their callings. Every member is asked to
do 100% to fulfill their callings no matter what the calling is.

I am saddened to see that you have taken facts that are known and as I said before, twisted them to make sense for the purpose of this message. Your facts are incomplete and skewed. For starters had the trial of Joseph Smith been 6 years he would have been 20, beings that he was 14 at the time of the first vision. If you study the life of Joseph Smith in its entirety, you would find that he was a simple man who lived simply. If he had been doing this as a business venture then he sure didnt live the high life. He was beaten, tarred and feathered, starved, and many times was imprisoned wrongly. I would like to know where it is that you get your information as to all of this.  You have so many facts that if you truly knew the gospel then you wouldnt have your facts the way that they are in your long bashing of the church. Like your fact #4. The American history that it depicts does not have to be North America.  As to the trial of Joseph Smith in 1826, I think you need to get all the facts before you like others, claim that this is unaltered material that accuses Joseph Smith of any misdeeds. I would like to state that this document whether true or not has one flaw, in 1826 Joseph had seen the plates of gold, but had not been allowed to remove them from where he had found them. He was not able to do so until 1827! And further more was not able to be a glass looker as he had no access to the plates and the tools used to translate it until after this alleged trial! 

As I read your message of the Churchs history and how it is a scam, I wish that you would dig deeper into the gospel itself. Base not your opinions on whether Joseph was credible or not, for most of what you read is here-say any way, but base it off of your own personal feelings. Read the scriptures and pray earnestly to know if it is true or not true. Find out for yourself; do not let anything that you have read or heard sway you. If you have the same opinion when you are finished with the entire book and have prayed for an answer of the Lord, then good for you, but dont bash those who have the opinion that it is true.

My prayer is that you and those who have this opinion of the church would first seek the answers of the Lord. I have no right to bash the things that you believe in no matter what religion you are; and you have no right to bash anyone as well. We are on this earth to find for ourselves what we believe and to follow the counsels of the Lord. I do not go around condemning any other church for what their members do and neither should you.

Are the Catholics scammers and liars, or the Baptists and so on, No, but many
of their members lie, cheat and steal. But that does not mean that the religion
can be categorized and generalized as thieves and liars. People no matter what
religion are human and everyone of us have faults. Each of us no matter the
belief are capable of terrible things.

I am sorry that you do not approve of the members of the Latter Day Saints to stay involved in their surroundings. We like all human beings want our beliefs to be respected and upheld. Just as the Gays want to be allowed to be married, the LDS and many other religions have the desire to keep the Lords commandments that a man must marry a woman. We as Saints have the right to want to uphold our beliefs and have a say in our communities, governments and in the world.  The gospel of the Lord makes the statement of marriage and we stand behind what we believe.

To make demands as to what the church must do in order for you to think they are not a scam is preposterous. That would be like telling you that you are to expose everything that you have in your life. You must tell the world how much money you have, make and what you do with it all! As I said before, tithing is voluntary so that action is already taken care of. Members are encouraged to learn of all the history and teachings that are in the church, if they chose to not learn it that is their business. And meddling in politics is the right of every individual. Do you vote? Then you are a meddler too. Or like them are you just one that wants your voice heard? Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones? 

All 'religions' are false and are nothing but belief in mythology.  Then for your proof, you quote from some old book of unknown origin and speak or write in some silly 14th century English accent.

It's all ridiculous and mormons are no better or worse than any other religion.

I've never understood how so many millions of people could believe in earnest such a thing as Joseph Smith's revelations. However, the vast majority of mainstream Mormons, and even, I believe, the majority of the underground polygamist fundamentalist Mormons, are decent people and loyal Americans, and outside of the LDS gobbledegook, as much believers in Jesus as any Christian.

And I've always admired the kind of kick-a*s image of Brigham Young. Maybe because of the university's football team. Maybe because it contrasted with the weaker victim image I have of Smith.

And if other faiths or denominations lose menbers to movements like LDS, its because they're too complacent and lax in their own evangelism, or wishy washy and weak about their own doctrines and truths, leaving their less involved members open to the bold, unapologetic ministrations of LDS missionaries. Survival of the fittest applies to religion too.

And the country will hardly do worse with a Mormon running it than we've done with the myriad other Protestants we've had as President lately.

So, as far as their corporate financial structure goes, it's a big WHO CARES to me.

Wonder where I put my tin foil hat? Bet the OP is a Baptist. They seem to believe that anybody who doesn't believe as they do, will go straight to... Where's your rip off?

Don't trust a religion to get you to Heaven, first and foremost. Trust Jesus Christ alone....

1. Romans 3:23 Says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

In the eyes of God, we are ALL bad people. As a matter of fact, according to God's standards, when it comes to entering Heaven, we are all just as bad as Adolf Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden, or anyone else you can think of. Not only that there is a punishment for this sin.

2. Romans 6:23 begins by saying "For the wages of sin is death..." 

When we sin (do bad things) we are destined for a place called Hell...now, I know that seems like a very judgmental and very insane thing to bring up, but it's the truth. But check this out, God loves us, right? So let me bring you to the second part of this verse, which states...

"...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." 

Let me further explain this by saying that Romans 5:8-9 says:

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

We have the perfect opportunity to go to Heaven instead of Hell, because Christ took our punishment upon himself as a substitute for what we deserve to go through.

But then again, not everyone in the world is going to Heaven. So what must we do? Simple...

3. Acts 16:31 says, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

"Believing on" something means trusting something. So in order to be saved, we must Accept the GIFT of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's like this, Christ gained eternal life, and he wrapped it up in a package, and is handing it to you. And you have your whole life to reach out and receive it. 

Might I add, once you receive it, you can't lose it, ever. You have no chance of going to Hell after receiving it. (1 John 5:13)

And, you also can't earn your way to heaven by doing good works (Ephesians 2: 8-9). It is the GIFT OF GOD.

If you TRULY BELIEVE these statements in your heart, go ahead and tell God. You could pray something like this... Dear Jesus, I admit I am a sinner and I deserve to go to Hell. However, I believe you died and rose again to pay my sin debt. Please save me and take me to heaven when I die. I'm only trusting you, Jesus. Amen.

This church is actually no worse or better than any other church. 

commercials that have been airing recently on T.V., and at the end of these commercials the people being portrayed will say that they are a Mormon?

It's interesting that these commercials are taking place about a year before the 2012 Presidential election, wouldn't you agree? Many of us know that the unemployed millionaire, Mitt Romney, is attempting to become the Republican candidate, right? I believe that he's a Mormon, isn't he?

You can 'Google' this- "I'M ALSO UNEMPLOYED", and read the related articles on the web regarding his quote.

It appears that the Mormons might be attempting to show that the ones depicted in those T.V. commercials are happy and successful. Maybe it's a way to recruit others, who are lost and might be searching for answers in these troubling times, right? It could also be a way to manipulate the minds of potential voters, correct? Let's face it, the American people are easy to manipulate, right? If it appears on T.V., most Americans will believe it, wouldn't you agree?

In my opinion, all religions manipulate their 'followers'. Religion has become BIG business in America and all over the world. You mentioned that the LDS Church does not disclose their financial holdings. That brings to mind how the Catholic Church doesn't want to disclose all of the sex abuse that has been taking place in the USA and all over the world. I wonder if the Catholic Church discloses its financial holdings. Probably not, huh? 

Don't forget to 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED?, and go to the site with the 5 charts and pay attention to the fact that Twentieth Century Fox Corporation is listed in 'Chart 4' and General Electric (NBC) is listed in 'Chart 5'.

The ones who control T.V. are the ones who control the minds of most Americans, right? It appears that the ones who control T.V. also control Wall Street and the U.S. government. Simply take a look at all of the companies that appear in those 5 charts. Most of them are Wall Street companies, correct?

Here's another quote that you can 'Google'- "I'M DOING GOD'S WORK"

Have a nice day.

***NATIONWIDE BANK ALERT: Make sure to type in all of the following at this site and read the Ripoff Reports for important information if you have a bank account or a mortgage in the USA-

BANK OF AMERICA
MERRILL LYNCH
WELLS FARGO
COUNTRYWIDE
CHASE
GMAC
US BANK
LITTON LOAN
CITIBANK
MORGAN STANLEY
WACHOVIA
INDYMAC
ONE WEST BANK
GOLDMAN SACHS
FIFTH THIRD
LEHMAN
PHH MORTGAGE
BANK
MORTGAGE

And now RipOff Reports has become a forum for a political agenda.  Good grief, Charlie Brown. Naturally, all of the author's report is public information, and can be found almost anywhere on the web and in libraries.  Though, personally, I have nothing to do with the LDS, and though everything mentioned here is true, I feel it would it's purpose would be better served on another forum.  Just my opinion. 

What is the rip off that pertains to YOU?