I wish I could be part of a class action lawsuit against them. Everything about this has been so shady.
Looking at the information they referred me to while on the phone with support, they retroactively changed my balance so that it was never close to $300.
I have disconnected paypal from my ebay, and will stop using paypal for other websites. This is probably the shadiest experience I've had with any business.
I called the police to report the chargeback fraudster and they said my only option is a civil suit. So I'm thinking to file a civil suit against both the fraudster and paypal at the same time. Ebay does nothing about chargeback fraud.
Paypal disputed the chargeback with the fraudster's bank on my behalf with the proof of delivery I gave them, but this person is regularly doing this to multiple sellers and Paypal refuses to do anything.
Michael
Riverside,#2Author of original report
Thu, January 24, 2019
"How do you know? You somehow think you are entitled to know the inner working of Paypal fraud department. No company is going to disclose to the general public what specific accounts they terminated and the reasons why."
Because the account is still active, and has done fraudulent chargebacks to numerous ebay sellers. We can see from the feedback left.
"So answer this. How many chargebacks is allowed before they freeze your account. As I mentioned a consumer has the legal rights to dispute a transaction per FEDERAL banking regulations. Say you had disputed 2 transactions, are you a person doing fraudlent chargebacks or did you just run into a couple of fraudlent sellers? Would you think that they were justified or being too strict because you aren't committing fraud?"
In my case I gave proof that the person who filed the chargeback did so fraudulently. This is completely different from a limit on justified/regular chargebacks.
"And per your report that is what happend. So what is the issue and why did you state you are still going to file a suit..."
No that is not what happened. Stop wasting my time. Go re-read it if you need to.
Chaiya
Virginia,#3Consumer Comment
Wed, January 23, 2019
From what I see a message with an exclamation mark in your image, the detail might be hidden because you select the date range over 31 days? That's why it displayed only summary. Could you try to set the date range to be within a month or so? You might be able to see the detail of what's actually going on.
Robert
Irvine,#4Consumer Comment
Wed, January 23, 2019
I was referring to the fact that Paypal refuses to do anything about people who regularly engage in chargeback fraud.
- How do you know? You somehow think you are entitled to know the inner working of Paypal fraud department. No company is going to disclose to the general public what specific accounts they terminated and the reasons why.
There are many options, such as freezing their accounts until the money is returned, removing the money from their account by changing their balance (as they did to me), terminating their accounts, etc..
- So answer this. How many chargebacks is allowed before they freeze your account. As I mentioned a consumer has the legal rights to dispute a transaction per FEDERAL banking regulations. Say you had disputed 2 transactions, are you a person doing fraudlent chargebacks or did you just run into a couple of fraudlent sellers? Would you think that they were justified or being too strict because you aren't committing fraud?
Furthermore, during my research, I learned that Robert's statements about chargeback fraud are erroenous. I saw numerous complaints about Paypal refusing to do anything about buyers committing chargeback fraud, and even saw an article where ebay has cut ties with Paypal and recommends sellers to use alternatives due to those alternatives being free of chargeback fraud.
You can believe what you want as from your experience as the seller you had this issue. However, there are plenty of complaints from the sellers perspective. Just from a couple of reports on this site I quickly found over the last couple of months.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ebay/san-jose-ca-95125-5904/ebay-ebaypaypal-no-consumer-protection-for-fraud-selling-practice-san-jose-ca-1470010
A direct quote from that review "Seller would not return or refund for me. Ebay or Paypal would not protect me at all".
- A direct quote from that review - "I placed order through PAYPAL (big mistake since they will never back you up with a dispute)"
4. Robert ignores the missing money, just like Paypal support did.
- NO..I did not ignore it. I am just telling you that you have to see the detail a different way. I am not PP Tech Support and if for what ever reason you can't see the detail that is an issue. The point is that I think this is more of a case of "user error" than anything from PayPal as there would be thousands complaints about a balance issue.
"if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole"
Good. That's exactly what should have happened. Rather than forcing people to submit civil suits which would end up costing more than the amount that was stollen.
- And per your report that is what happend. So what is the issue and why did you state you are still going to file a suit...
Michael
Riverside,#5Author of original report
Wed, January 23, 2019
Not sure who the "Robert" person is, who has responded, but their response is very similar to the responses I got from Paypal support, in that it is dishonest, and misrepresents the issues.
1. The screenshot provided is the only evidence I have of the balance changes that occurred. I did not upload a screenshot of the "activity" page because it has private information. I could black it out and upload it but I don't see a way to add more images. Again, the "activity" page shows no balance history, thus the only use of uploading it would be to show the fact that it doesn't show balance history.
2. "Robert" claims the "Transaction Tab" has more details. It does not. It's unfortunate that I cannot add more screenshots to show that he is wrong/lying.
3. Robert's statement that mine is contradictory demonstrates the standard misrepresentation/misinterpretation that Paypal's representatives engage in. When I said "Paypal refuses to do anything" I was referring to the fact that Paypal refuses to do anything about people who regularly engage in chargeback fraud. There are many options, such as freezing their accounts until the money is returned, removing the money from their account by changing their balance (as they did to me), terminating their accounts, etc.. Instead, Paypal allows these people to regularly engage in chargeback fraud against multiple ebay sellers without any consequence.
Furthermore, during my research, I learned that Robert's statements about chargeback fraud are erroenous. I saw numerous complaints about Paypal refusing to do anything about buyers committing chargeback fraud, and even saw an article where ebay has cut ties with Paypal and recommends sellers to use alternatives due to those alternatives being free of chargeback fraud.
4. Robert ignores the missing money, just like Paypal support did.
"if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole"
Good. That's exactly what should have happened. Rather than forcing people to submit civil suits which would end up costing more than the amount that was stollen.
Actually it looks like I might be able to upload more photos. So I will if possible.
Robert
Irvine,#6Consumer Comment
Tue, January 22, 2019
There is no balance history anywhere that I have access to (desktop browser). There is only transaction history and current balance. This is extremely shady and allows all the BS that follows.
- Incorrect. Your image shows you are running a Financial SUMMARY report. This does not contain ANY detail inforation. If you want to see the detail select the Transaction Tab.
Paypal disputed the chargeback with the fraudster's bank on my behalf with the proof of delivery I gave them, but this person is regularly doing this to multiple sellers and Paypal refuses to do anything
- That statement is contradictory. You say that payPal refuses to do anything..but in your own words once you provided proof of delivery they disputed the chargeback with the bank. Until you provided proof to them they had no idea if the dispute was valid or not.
As for the Chargeback unfortunatly is the "cost of doing business". You will always have scammers who try and play the system. The "dispute" process per banking and Federal regulations is really one more of one that puts the burden on the seller to prove that the transaction was valid. Banks while they have some leeway, are really bound by certain procedures that they have to follow. The internet opens this up quite a bit more as many know that it is a lot harder(costlier) to go after someone who isn't local over small amounts.
For every buyer that tries to play the system, there are sellers that do the same thing. For every complaint you have that says they "never" do anything to support the seller, you will see a complaint that says they "never" do anything to support the buyer.
The police were correct, this is nothing more than a Civil matter. However, if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole.