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  • Report:  #615390

Complaint Review: Lagotto Club of America - Internet

Reported By:
Lagotto - , New York, United States of America
Submitted:
Updated:

Lagotto Club of America
Internet, United States of America
Phone:
Web:
http://lagottous.com/
Categories:
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Lagotto Club of America: A wolf in sheeps clothes



These are my tips when choosing a Lagotto Romagnolo breeder:



DO NOT RUSH These dogs are a big investment and you will have them for many years. If you are breeding your decision is that much more important since your dog will be the foundation stock in the USA. It should take months for you to find the right puppy. It is a learning curve.



Be wary of larger American Breeders. In my research, I have concluded that they have, in general, inferior breeding stock to what is available overseas and are smooth talkers. The reasons for their so-so stock could be: 1) rushing when they were new and taking whatever they could get someone to export 2) Not investing in good dogs to pinch pennies. They get the same price anyway for a puppy due to the shortage in America and impulsiveness of the US buyer!



Do not believe a breeder who says they do not care about the money. The breeder who has 4-5 bitches is selling 20+ puppies a year and netting $50,000 minimum. Then there is the ego factor with certain breeders here. If you talk to them enough, you may find, as I did, that that think because you are new to the breed you are an inferior human being, one who they want to see part with their money. I found them to think we are gullible.



Everyone talks and they all know each other! As you are interviewing breeders (many are very happy to share their knowledge and it is worthwhile to call them) you should know you can be marked as their customer, and breeders will confront other breeders for possibly stealing your business. Also, everything posted on the Lagotto Board (which is highly censored by the breeder/businessman who runs it) is seen by all breeders as well. Often information is shared around the globe in hours.



Do not contribute to American inbreeding. There are about 4 breeder businesses here that I am aware of. Often there is 1 male servicing 4+ females. If we keep breeding the same dogs (especially the males in this case) they will all be related. This is a reason to import.



Reasons to Import if you plan to breed:



1. To improve the breed here in America. These foundation dogs are very important. We dont want the USA to be known as the country with the ugly Lagotto!



2. For a better quality of dog that meets the prized Lagotto standard in terms of appearance, wonderful temperament, and health..



3. To add fresh blood to the American Bloodlines.



4. To increase the value and demand of your puppies. This way you can choose the best homes for them.



5. To stop rewarding certain American Breeders who are controlling ALL of the information here to benefit themselves, so they do not have to buy breed quality dogs or spend the time and money testing their health, or proving their stock in shows. 6. The price, including shipping, is the same or possible less, than a USA puppy. (Supply and demand) (Info on importing below)



There is at least one breeder in the USA and one in Canada who is not being cheap, or controlling all of the information in the USA, but is importing great quality stock from arguably the finest breeder in Italy. A good stud dog costs $15,000+. He would already have his championships from around the world. (Championships in US are meaningless since rarely would another Lagotto show up to compete since there are only about 80 here. The one shows up wins!



A $15,000 stud imported after he is finished (Champion) and has his health clearances is the equivalent stud dog to what the Italians, or Swedes, and others are using. But these dogs originated from Italy so there is more selection there and the shows are most competitive.



These are the breeders I have found who I would be happy to work with and who will ship dogs overseas (many wont):



USA: Judith Martin



Canada: Bridget Flynn



Italy (best selection of pups): Monica Benelli and Marcello Petricciuolo. These two breeders are trustworthy and I know them and will be a good starting point. They can refer you to others and you can trust the referral. Monica breeds only show quality dogs, with good hips, and her Gastone is probably the most awarded Champion in the World at this time. He has 11 championships. Monica is very responsive, kind, and helpful.



Both Bridget Flynn and Judith Martin above have Monicas dogs here in the USA. Bridget has Augusto, a beautiful finished male. This is all I have found that I recommend so far.



Trust is important since money gets wired. There are many puppy scams right now.



These 4 breeders are all on Facebook.



Disclaimer: I am the owner of a high quality Italian imported puppy. I found some breeders who did not know how to treat people and some who were good to excellent.   Once I left the USA in my search everything went smooth and was straightforward.



Importing a puppy from Italy:



A show/breed quality puppy from Champion parents starts at $1,700 (Marcello is newer to breeding and has good prices)



Shipping costs $700 The language barrier and time difference is a little bit challenging but workable with email.



A US puppy costs $2,500 to $2,900. And most likely will still need to be shipped unless you live near the breeder.



Why pay more for a pet quality dog? Why breed a pet quality dog?



5 Updates & Rebuttals

Lagottoworldfriend

Oregon,
USA
Baseless accusations unsupported by facts

#2Consumer Comment

Tue, August 11, 2015

First off I feel it necessary to state that I know on some level pretty much everyone mentioned good & bad in all of the above reports. I do not get into the political sphere of it, and there are politics with breeders. I am not a breeder. I am an owner of Lagotti.

Making accusations like Breeders change pedigree is completely unfounded. I have done a lot of research on all of the pedigrees in this breed as genetics is a hobby of mine, and that accusation against Bridget at least is completey baseless and inaccurate. If you want to look up parental history look at Laura Tanos website and it has almost every dog registerd listed. I can't imagine Jacki & Sandra would lie about that either. Why would they? They are the heavily respected breeders in North America. Along with Monica.

The club sets baseline stardards for testing (BARE minimum should be BJE, LSD, Hips/Eyes and preferably Elbows & IC ) and there are some breeders who are not registered as part of the parent club who are great, but there are a bunch who really are out for the money. If you aren't part of the parent club, if I was a puppy buyer, I'd ask why. And I'd ask the Parent club why? Were they rejected for bad practices, or is it politics?

Breeders who are reputable spend TONS of money on a pregnancy. I've seen the balance sheets.  Xrays, ultrasounds, testing. I know for a fact several breeders, not part of the club who do none of the above and still sell all their puppies. Intentions are great, but if you breed dogs with an incomplete understanding of your stock, for profit, not genetic diversity and betterment of the breed, that classifies as a BYB. If you don't have the ability to run testing, to ensure your dogs are as healthy genetically as possible, to provide PROPER puppy socialization (yes there are breed lines which are more reserved and agressive) Then you have no business being a breeder. 

 

As for the situation with Monica and the sick dog. Sick dogs happen, it is not neccessarily the fault of the breeder. In that case- and I have contacts on both sides of the dispute the 'owners' of the dog in question did a horrible job and did not seek appropriate medical care- and also did not socialize the dog. The dog is now thriving but they STILL will not release "ownership" of the dog so it can find a new home. How petty is that. Dogs are not property, they are living things. Get over the monetary value and be a decent human being and allow the dog to find a new home.


Lagotto Lover

Alabama,
Il Granaio dei Malatesta- laghetto

#3Consumer Comment

Mon, June 09, 2014

Do NOT buy from Monica Benelli.  We got a sick lagotto puppy.  We've spent thousands of dollars trying to treat issues that she should have known about.

lgranaiodeimalatesta.com


Lagotto Lover

Oregon,
Oregon,
Another dissatisfied customer

#4Consumer Comment

Mon, June 02, 2014

We also purchased a dog from Monica Benelli at Il Granaio dei Malatesta in Italy after she came highly recommended to us.  

 

After we had signed the contract and paid in full via wire transfer and as she was putting the puppy on the plane in Italy for an overseas shipment, she told us (in an e-mail) that the dog had giardia and that giardia is rampant in all Italian kennels.  

 

The puppy arrived to us two days later with a significant infection.  Over the course of several weeks, the dog would get slightly better and then considerably worse.  We spent $1500 on vet visits, diagnostic tests and medications to treat the giardia.  (Not to mention considerable time cleaning up and sanitizing the diarrhea and vomit)  Unlike normal Giardia, this strain seemed particularly resilient.  

 

Additionally, our puppy had behavioral issues and fear that became gradually more pronounced.  A Behaviorist diagnosed him with severe Anxiety Disorder.  

 

Monica has been very difficult to work with regarding this matter.  She has accused our professional trainer (CPDT- KA), our veterinarian (DVM) and our behaviorist (PhD, DVM) of all being wrong and unknowledgeable.  

 

I have serious concerns about the welfare of all of the animals in her care.  I would never choose to work with her as we find her incredibly unprofessional and irresponsible.  Furthermore, given our dog's mental health and in talking to other owners with fearful/anxious Lagotti, I have concerns about the dogs descended from IGDM lines.

 

You can learn more about our dog, about our issues with Monica Benelli, and about the health of dogs from Il Granaio dei Malatesta on our website at ilgranaiodeimalatesta.  You may also contact us directly from the website. 


Cindy

Tuscaloosa,
Alabama,
The breeders you named are also not trusworthy.

#5Consumer Comment

Sun, January 12, 2014

This report sounds contrived. The average person would not use the terms used in the original report, unless they were very familiar with the dog world.

I bought dogs from two of the breeders mentioned as 'trustworthy' in this report, and was ripped off by both of them. Bridgette Flynn, selling pet stock dogs as show/breeding dogs, is not to be trusted. She has also posted false pedigrees on her website as to who the parents of certain litters are, and has not done all health testing that she should have as a responsible and reputable breeder.

Monica Benelli sold a breeding/show dog with a bad, aggressive temperament, and a very noticable under bite. This is not the type of dog that should be bred or sold as a breeding/show dog. Don't forget the cost of buying and shipping a dog from overseas.

Another breeder (read broker) not to be trusted is Jacki Barbieri. Leads you to believe she is the breeder of a puppy you paid her for, when infact, she and her partner scour the Italian newspapers looking for pups advertised for sale. The pay a fraction of the price to the breeder, then sell the dogs for 5 or 6 times what they paid for it. And, Jacki holds the registration paper in her name, so you, as the purchaser, can't show your dog or breed it. She also changes pedigrees on some of these dogs. 

Don't get ripped off by them. Any breeder who has 4,5,6 or more litters in a year, is stricktly breeding for profit, not the betterment of the breed. Be very careful who you buy a puppy from. An imported dog is not always a better dog. Buyer beware! Do your homework, ask a lot of questions and don't trust the breeders mentioned in this article.

 

 

 

 


Lagotto

New York,
United States of America
Additional information to complaint

#6Author of original report

Thu, June 24, 2010

This complaint/report is the opinion of the writer and intended as "fair comment and criticism".  

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