Complaint Review: J.P. Morgan Chase Bank - Mesa Arizona

Charles wrote: "My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it." Response: Balancing a check register has everything to do with the OP's report. "Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of 'automatic payments' as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable." Response: Fine, but you do so knowing that online banking and ATM balance inquiries are not accurate methods for learning your account balance for the reasons stated above. It's your money, do as you wish but using inaccurate tools to learn your account balance is a great way to overdraft your account. "Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites." Response: And yet you are still responsible for managing your own account with your own check register. The bank is not your accountant. "Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, 'gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry.'" Response: You can always choose to stay within your account balance. You agreed to the terms and conditions and they told you how those transactions could be processed. If you go back and overdraft your account knowing that the bank will more than likely process from largest to smallest, then you have essentially donated your money to the bank.

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it. Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable. The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client. What does that have to do with NSF fees? Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites. Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry." If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it. Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable. The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client. What does that have to do with NSF fees? Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites. Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry." If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it. Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable. The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client. What does that have to do with NSF fees? Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites. Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry." If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com

My experience with Chase formerly WAMU has been identical. This situation has escalated dramatically since the takeover. Being careless or knowing how to balance a check register has nothing to do with it. Apart from the overlapping and vague dates of "automatic payments" as well as several family members having access to vendors who hit your pay pal which hits your debit card etc, there are any number of legitimate reasons for you to wish to check your balance either at an ATM or on line at, let's say 11 PM and if it is close to overdrawn, do a transfer. In tight economic times that is wise, prudent and reasonable. The bank is the dominant party to your business relationship. It is not a business meeting of equals, Chapter 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code is the settled authority on this area of law. It proscribes the unbreakable dute of fiduciary responsibility on the bank. This doctrine of fairness is further defined in case law of trusts, where it is held that even the "intent of fairness" is not sufficient. It must exhibit "honesty of conduct." They may not profit from their advantageous position over a client. What does that have to do with NSF fees? Everything. The bank owns the computers, the buildings, the vaults, the legal staff and financial experts. We own only a small bundle of currency, which we trustingly place in their care, and ask only that they be fair guardians of this fruit of our toil. They give us tools of their own design and control with which to manage our accunts, such as ATM printouts and home banking sites. Are we now to believe that it is ok for them to jigger the balances with the effect (intended or not) that we are misled, then pound us with an obscene torrent of NSF fees, and then shrug and say, "gee, those ATM were kind of, you know, ball park estimates. Read your agreement. No bank error, sorry." If this ever gets before a judge and jury, I think we can predict the outcome. Oh and by the way, there are at the present time ten class actions suits pending against Chase. Visit www.wamu-chase-ripoff.com

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it) Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all. One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it) Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all. One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it) Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all. One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.

You CANNOT rely on online banking as the sole means for tracking your account. By it's very nature it cannot give an accurate balance. For instance, it will not reflect pending checks. Nor will it accurately reflect pending debit items which may have been held for an amount different than the actual item. (i.e. a restaurant tab that had a tip added to it) Online banking is meant to be a tool to aid you in verifying your checkbook balance, that's all. One last point, banks do not control the posting of electronic debits, they post them as they come in. The merchant controls the submission of the items, and not every merchant remits every day. This is another major reason that your online balance won't be accurate. It works this way at every bank, the best you can hope for is a bank with lower overdraft fees, because your current accounting methods cannot avoid them.

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount. No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business. If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount. No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business. If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount. No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business. If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.

You could keep a paper register rather easily. At the end of every day, you and your spouse enter the transactions into the register and then both review. Another idea would be to carry cash for your small daily purchases. Keep a calendar with the dates for your autopays and the amount. No bank can keep a completely accurate online balance in realtime. Different retailers post their credit/debit transactions at different times and may not clear out those transaction on a daily basis, and others may clear out those transactions several times a day. Paper checks can clear the same day they are written, depending on the retailer or business. If you don't change your spending habits, these problems will follow you to the next bank.

Hi Niteowl, I can understand your frustrations, but switching banks will not stop the problem of excessive overdraft fees. You don't want to pay the fees and I don't blame you. However, relying on the online banking tool from any bank is virtually guaranteed to cause overdraft fees. As an example, I like to buy gasoline from a nearby Chevron and I prefer to pay at the pump. I could buy $30 in gas, but the station only puts a hold of $1 against my account. If I go online to check my balance, the bank will say that I have $29 more in my account than I actually do. If I go to a restaurant and pay with my debit card, they may create a hold for the amount of our meals but they may not include the amount of the tip. Let's say that I tipped $20 on a $75 dinner. The bank will think I only spent $75 when I have actually sent $95. Once again, I'd be led to believe that I have a higher balance than I really do. Checks won't show up in the online banking tool. My auto withdrawals don't either. For example, when Progressive takes my auto insurance payment out, I don't see it until the transaction is hard posted. You and your husband will be better off if you start keeping a register or a ledger. I know it's tough for a couple to do that. You might consider opening separate accounts or promptly communicating with each other when one of you makes a purchase. You should also keep a calendar and mark the dates of your automatic withdrawals. A properly maintained ledger or check register will virtually eliminate the chances of you overspending your account balance. I'd urge you to consider this advice whether you leave Chase Bank or not. It's the accounting method that is the problem here, not the bank.