- Report: #363747
Complaint Review: Cobra Group - International International
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Cobra Group
Cobra Group International, International, U.S.A.
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Cobra Groupcobra Group the true income International
A lot of people that worked for Cobra that have written on here, have worked for them for only a short time. I was there for 4 and half years and have decided that numbers speak wider volumes than emotional outbursts.
Here it is explained....
THE MATHS
40 a day generous average. Remember if you're ill you don't get paid.
On average 25 working days in a month
1000
'business expenses': 20% tax and national insurance = 200 a month. IF YOU DON'T PAY THIS YOU WILL BE FINED OR HAVE TO PAY IN THE FUTURE WITH INTEREST!!!!!!
travel 5 (minimum) a day only including transport costs from the office to the field. Not from your home to the office = 125.
to pay for observations (person on their 1st interview) if you're a leader this includes paying for their travel, food and drink minimum 10 3 times a week, therefore 12 times a month =120 a month.
paying for your crew's drinks in the pub, minimum twice a week minimum 15 spend = 120
Final earnings amount after deductions 435 a month.
There are other expenses like crew board, and the larger your crew the larger your expenses. These estimates are in reference to 2 people who are not leaders on your crew. Prices are in relation to the middle of the UK of course prices in the south are higher for transport and socialising.
435 a month.
Can you pay your bills with this?..
rent
gas
electricity
council tax
phone
food shopping
if you have a car insurance, road tax
Those are the essentials what about...
socialising with your friends (not cobra)
CDs
clothes
These were my figures on a 60 a day average (some days I made 100 some 30)
1500 a month
after tax and NI 300
transport to and from office and field = 160
because I made more I took out more 2nd interviews but we'll say I took out 1 more = 160 a month
crew's drinks = 140 a month
total 740 a month after work expenses
after personal bills...
rent 250
council tax 50
water 24
gas 10
electricity 10
phone 60 (this was quite high because I would have to call my crew to give them advice during the day.)
travel to and from office 125
food 290 (this is so high because I started at 7.30 am and finished at 8pm I normally ate out because I didn't have the time to cook or go shopping.
-79 a month
which is why when I left I had to pay off my credit card, so I got a bank loan and now...
This was a year ago I left and I've got 2000 left to pay back the bank!
If you are in Cobra and reading this please be aware that if you are not paying tax and national insurance (which you probably aren't because your owner won't have advised you to, or if you were good mates with them, as i was, they said i shouldn't have registered with the Inland Revenue) YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!
The office I worked in was investigated to make sure that FRs or ICs were NOT employed. Therefore they legally are not allowed to oblige you to come in at specific times and work the hours they demand, in fact it is illegal to do so and if this is happening you can report the office to the Inland Revenue because if they do this they have to employ you which means fixed wage, holiday pay, sick benefits, travel expenses, etc.
Another WARNING...You should have liability insurance because if you cause an accident in the field you are liable because you are SELF EMPLOYED. My advice is to speak to an accountant (which isn't cheap), and they can advise you on all the insurances and taxes that you should pay.
THE TRUTH ABOUT BEING AN OWNER......
Everyone on this site has been writing about their experiences as FR's or IC's. This is to explain about the problems that arise when you reach ownership.
A lot of people when they get promoted really struggle to get their company off the ground. Every year there are around 30 new promotions to ownership in the UK which looks great.
BUT the list of owners always fluctuates between 70 and 90 not the 120 that you're told. If you don't believe me ask your owner for a phone list of all the owners 'to make a conference call' and count them.
A lot of the newer owners aren't put on that list until they have a particular amount of people working in their office or their income is over a certain amount basically to make sure they're stable (God forbid if a new FR/IC should try to contact them and they have been 'shutdown' (or have quit)).
New owners used to be given 5000 to run their new office but because many struggled the amount was increased to 15,000. Many owners say this is because if you have money in your pocket it gives you confidence, yes it may, but also it takes longer to run out of cash and it isn't as easy as they make ownership out to be. The more money they give you the longer you can keep your office open to 'figure things out'.
OK, so lets imagine you've got 10 people in your office. That is the AVERAGE size of an office. Yes you do get some with 30, 40, 50 people but you also get some with 3 or 4. And the large numbers only belong to about 6 or 7 offices. Go on a road trip to these offices and find out!!
If an FR is making 60 the owner is normally making about 40 per sale. A 60 a day average is a good one for any FR to maintain. The average earning in the office is about 40 a day, check the reconciliation sheets yourself and do the maths! So that means the 40 that the owner should make per guy is actually 26.4. So 26.4 times 10 guys times 6 days = 2640 per week. Times 50 weeks in a year is 132,000. (This figure is after they have paid you).
Sound good?
The bills of an owner...
The administrator, and their tax and National Insurance
Company taxes
The owner has to pay tax when they pay themselves a wage from their business account
Building lease (can include or exclude gas, water, electricity, depending on the contract)
Cleaner (newer owners will do it themselves on Sundays when the guys won't see them)
Phone bill (in the office AND mobile)
There are extra expenses that are attached to having a business bank account eg, more tax, direct debit charges, etc
Accountant
Hub Manager (book keeper)
Insurances within the building (if you injure yourself while IN the office they're liable. !!!!!NB AUSTRALIANS!!!!!! you are covered if you injure yourself while at work in the field, the owner would be liable to pay for you while off work! If this happens contact a government office for support because the chances are they would try to avoid payout!!) (Brits you must have liability insurance yourselves to go into the field)
Owners attend meetings, between 3 and 8 a year (divisional, cobra led, organisational, etc). Depending on the destination they can cost from 100 to 500 per delegate, sometimes the owner will be 'advised' to take people from their office normally between 1 and 4 people depending on the size of the office.
The Cobra rally in August and February, (tickets, awards, travel, sometimes they help pay for hotel rooms, etc)
My point is don't blame your owner he/she is stuggling just like you which is why many of you have had bad experiences.
It's the people at the top that are reeling in the cash Chris Niarchos, Mike Blaine, the Vice Presidents of which there are about 8 worldwide.
Organisational heads? Pah! There's only about 4 of these in the UK. If you are the right person with work ethic and determination yes you can do it there. But if so, you are the type of person that can do it anywhere!!
He_who_laughs_last
london
Europe
Here it is explained....
THE MATHS
40 a day generous average. Remember if you're ill you don't get paid.
On average 25 working days in a month
1000
'business expenses': 20% tax and national insurance = 200 a month. IF YOU DON'T PAY THIS YOU WILL BE FINED OR HAVE TO PAY IN THE FUTURE WITH INTEREST!!!!!!
travel 5 (minimum) a day only including transport costs from the office to the field. Not from your home to the office = 125.
to pay for observations (person on their 1st interview) if you're a leader this includes paying for their travel, food and drink minimum 10 3 times a week, therefore 12 times a month =120 a month.
paying for your crew's drinks in the pub, minimum twice a week minimum 15 spend = 120
Final earnings amount after deductions 435 a month.
There are other expenses like crew board, and the larger your crew the larger your expenses. These estimates are in reference to 2 people who are not leaders on your crew. Prices are in relation to the middle of the UK of course prices in the south are higher for transport and socialising.
435 a month.
Can you pay your bills with this?..
rent
gas
electricity
council tax
phone
food shopping
if you have a car insurance, road tax
Those are the essentials what about...
socialising with your friends (not cobra)
CDs
clothes
These were my figures on a 60 a day average (some days I made 100 some 30)
1500 a month
after tax and NI 300
transport to and from office and field = 160
because I made more I took out more 2nd interviews but we'll say I took out 1 more = 160 a month
crew's drinks = 140 a month
total 740 a month after work expenses
after personal bills...
rent 250
council tax 50
water 24
gas 10
electricity 10
phone 60 (this was quite high because I would have to call my crew to give them advice during the day.)
travel to and from office 125
food 290 (this is so high because I started at 7.30 am and finished at 8pm I normally ate out because I didn't have the time to cook or go shopping.
-79 a month
which is why when I left I had to pay off my credit card, so I got a bank loan and now...
This was a year ago I left and I've got 2000 left to pay back the bank!
If you are in Cobra and reading this please be aware that if you are not paying tax and national insurance (which you probably aren't because your owner won't have advised you to, or if you were good mates with them, as i was, they said i shouldn't have registered with the Inland Revenue) YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!
The office I worked in was investigated to make sure that FRs or ICs were NOT employed. Therefore they legally are not allowed to oblige you to come in at specific times and work the hours they demand, in fact it is illegal to do so and if this is happening you can report the office to the Inland Revenue because if they do this they have to employ you which means fixed wage, holiday pay, sick benefits, travel expenses, etc.
Another WARNING...You should have liability insurance because if you cause an accident in the field you are liable because you are SELF EMPLOYED. My advice is to speak to an accountant (which isn't cheap), and they can advise you on all the insurances and taxes that you should pay.
THE TRUTH ABOUT BEING AN OWNER......
Everyone on this site has been writing about their experiences as FR's or IC's. This is to explain about the problems that arise when you reach ownership.
A lot of people when they get promoted really struggle to get their company off the ground. Every year there are around 30 new promotions to ownership in the UK which looks great.
BUT the list of owners always fluctuates between 70 and 90 not the 120 that you're told. If you don't believe me ask your owner for a phone list of all the owners 'to make a conference call' and count them.
A lot of the newer owners aren't put on that list until they have a particular amount of people working in their office or their income is over a certain amount basically to make sure they're stable (God forbid if a new FR/IC should try to contact them and they have been 'shutdown' (or have quit)).
New owners used to be given 5000 to run their new office but because many struggled the amount was increased to 15,000. Many owners say this is because if you have money in your pocket it gives you confidence, yes it may, but also it takes longer to run out of cash and it isn't as easy as they make ownership out to be. The more money they give you the longer you can keep your office open to 'figure things out'.
OK, so lets imagine you've got 10 people in your office. That is the AVERAGE size of an office. Yes you do get some with 30, 40, 50 people but you also get some with 3 or 4. And the large numbers only belong to about 6 or 7 offices. Go on a road trip to these offices and find out!!
If an FR is making 60 the owner is normally making about 40 per sale. A 60 a day average is a good one for any FR to maintain. The average earning in the office is about 40 a day, check the reconciliation sheets yourself and do the maths! So that means the 40 that the owner should make per guy is actually 26.4. So 26.4 times 10 guys times 6 days = 2640 per week. Times 50 weeks in a year is 132,000. (This figure is after they have paid you).
Sound good?
The bills of an owner...
The administrator, and their tax and National Insurance
Company taxes
The owner has to pay tax when they pay themselves a wage from their business account
Building lease (can include or exclude gas, water, electricity, depending on the contract)
Cleaner (newer owners will do it themselves on Sundays when the guys won't see them)
Phone bill (in the office AND mobile)
There are extra expenses that are attached to having a business bank account eg, more tax, direct debit charges, etc
Accountant
Hub Manager (book keeper)
Insurances within the building (if you injure yourself while IN the office they're liable. !!!!!NB AUSTRALIANS!!!!!! you are covered if you injure yourself while at work in the field, the owner would be liable to pay for you while off work! If this happens contact a government office for support because the chances are they would try to avoid payout!!) (Brits you must have liability insurance yourselves to go into the field)
Owners attend meetings, between 3 and 8 a year (divisional, cobra led, organisational, etc). Depending on the destination they can cost from 100 to 500 per delegate, sometimes the owner will be 'advised' to take people from their office normally between 1 and 4 people depending on the size of the office.
The Cobra rally in August and February, (tickets, awards, travel, sometimes they help pay for hotel rooms, etc)
My point is don't blame your owner he/she is stuggling just like you which is why many of you have had bad experiences.
It's the people at the top that are reeling in the cash Chris Niarchos, Mike Blaine, the Vice Presidents of which there are about 8 worldwide.
Organisational heads? Pah! There's only about 4 of these in the UK. If you are the right person with work ethic and determination yes you can do it there. But if so, you are the type of person that can do it anywhere!!
He_who_laughs_last
london
Europe
