Complaint Review: BLUE HAVEN POOL OF NEW YORK - CHESTER New York

I am the salesman who Larry references in his report and while I am no longer with the company that built his pool I wanted to address some of the matters he directed at me. First of all, the language he uses implies that I am some abstract individual that he met on a sales call... In fact I had known Larry for 10 years prior to the sale. He owns the neighborhood gas station where many of my friends, including my childhood best friend, worked during highschool and beyond. This story is the prime example of why it is awkward to do business with people you know.

He is absolutely correct that he had trouble getting financing. He was looking for a 3rd position loan against bad debt to income ratio and was considered high risk by GE Money, who was the industry's primary loan provider for these types of construction loans. So understandably he was given higher rates to match his credit type. Blue Haven's general manager gave me the name of a guy who took "bad paper" and I contacted him for a second rate... essentially meaning I sent the application to another loan office who contacted Larry and tried to work out a loan with him. BH was not in the business of issuing loans... that was left up to banks and such. Regardless the fact that he had such trouble getting loans is an indicator of his personal finances... not a salesman intentions / effort.

Being that Larry and I were familiar with one another perhaps made him more comfortable with his dealings with me than he should have been. On Easter morning he called me yelling and screaming about one thing or another... He is a yeller in general... I told him that it was Easter and that I would speak to him during the week... at which point he began to start his typical antisemitic remarks about me not being christian and that I should be working. The following day I told the Blue Haven General Manager that I was not interested in moving forward with the project and that I thought that we should cancel the contract before the construction starts. He spoke to Larry and assured me that I would not be involved in the project or have to deal with Larry once construction starts. I agreed to show up on the morning of the start to introduce the foreman, as is standard, and that was it.

I did not speak with Larry about his job after that morning, and took only a few calls from his wife, who far easier to speak with, and was more than happy to answer questions or offer assistance when she was having problems with the construction department.

As for my vacation schedule... I can't recall where I went or why... but very few pools are sold mid summer... They are sold in the winter / spring for owners who want them for the summer... or in the fall for people who want to start in the late fall / winter. So mid summer sounds like the perfect time to take vacation.

I can not speak to the construction or technical problems he had as I was not regularly visiting the site or frankly concerned about his job. This is the only complaint I have ever been able to find about myself... and honestly am not surprised that it came from Larry. While he knows that I was not the builder on this job... he is someone who would be happy to try to drag me down to make himself feel more superior.

This problem could have been resolved very easily. The customer should have demanded (and received) a more detailed drawing. They should also have been presented with an engineer's drawing to scale and the salesperson, salesmanager or construction manager could have laid out the design with stakes and strings or chalk, like is used to line baseball and soccer fields. This would have solved the problem of changes prior to the "dig". WE require the customer to sign off on the engineer's drawing to avoid problems such as this. Salespersons/designers (there is a difference) should be allowed to take vacations as they wish especially if their children are out of school in the Summer. Never base your pricing on "rough draft" proposals. A good designer will create a beautiful pool for you (expensive or not) and an accurate quote. Too many will say, "I'll beat their best price". A credible designer will give you a fair price and detailed drawing at the start. A really good designer will measure the yard with the customer there if possible. Keep in mind that a quality designer has an investment in coming to your home. It is unfair to ask them for their drawing and price breakdown for "further review" as they know you'll probably give the next "designer" the plans and ask them to recreate the design for a lesser price. Here's what to look for in doing your research: BBB.com Ripoffreport.com Consumeraffairs.com Check out the business license with the state Ask to physically see some pools in construction and finished ones as well Referral list of the last 5 pools from the designer Ask local pool suppliers about a company you are interested in. Gut instinct not high pressure If the designer says "this price is good ONLY tonight" boot them out immediately! Dennis in Loxahatchee, Florida

I am the Controller of a Construction Company (no, not Blue Haven and we do not build pools). BTW, my pool was built 3 years ago by Blue Haven here in Tucson AZ. The "problems" you describe are typical of construction with the following exceptions: 1: I am surprised to say the least that they showed up to start work before the outline was spray painted and you had signed off on a final plan. When Blue Haven built my pool they spray painted the outline on the ground a full week before any actual construction work started. I signed off on a final plan before the spray painting. That's the way it's supposed to go. 2: That a salesperson would go on vacation in the Northeast in the summer is not surprising - most pools there are actually sold in the winter and spring. Your discussions began in February. Once the contracts are signed the Salesman is pretty much out of the picture and you talk with the Construction Superintendent. Here in Arizona, where pools are sold and built all year it's different. 3: Once a set of plans is filed and the Building Permit is issued, any changes constitute a Change Order which may or may not increase the cost - depending on what the Order is and when it is requested. I had a Change Order where I requested taht two shelfs in my pool (one in the deep end and the other nearby under the Rock Feature) be joined to a sigle shelf. I discovered it when the rebars were put in and it was a no-charge change order since all it entailed as adding three feet of rebar and then concreting over it. If I had spoken after the concrete was poured it would have been different. 4: Your actual construction has been going on for just over 6 weeks and they are waiting for the plasterers. That, my friend, is a very rapid construction of a pool. You are 75% done. After the plasterers is the finish plumbing (attaching the fixtures), the decking, filling the pool and setup and cleanup. My construction took twice as long. What would delay a constructionproject? The biggest headaches are: supplies and materials availablity and labor availability. Neither of these seems to be much of an issue in your project. In my experience, Blue Haven does top-notch work and by what you have posted you really don't have much to complain about. You say to ask for a "Liquidated Damages" provision in the contract. I will tell you now that you will not get it. You seem to be in some kind of hurry for the pool to be done fast, instead of being done right.

I am the Controller of a Construction Company (no, not Blue Haven and we do not build pools). BTW, my pool was built 3 years ago by Blue Haven here in Tucson AZ. The "problems" you describe are typical of construction with the following exceptions: 1: I am surprised to say the least that they showed up to start work before the outline was spray painted and you had signed off on a final plan. When Blue Haven built my pool they spray painted the outline on the ground a full week before any actual construction work started. I signed off on a final plan before the spray painting. That's the way it's supposed to go. 2: That a salesperson would go on vacation in the Northeast in the summer is not surprising - most pools there are actually sold in the winter and spring. Your discussions began in February. Once the contracts are signed the Salesman is pretty much out of the picture and you talk with the Construction Superintendent. Here in Arizona, where pools are sold and built all year it's different. 3: Once a set of plans is filed and the Building Permit is issued, any changes constitute a Change Order which may or may not increase the cost - depending on what the Order is and when it is requested. I had a Change Order where I requested taht two shelfs in my pool (one in the deep end and the other nearby under the Rock Feature) be joined to a sigle shelf. I discovered it when the rebars were put in and it was a no-charge change order since all it entailed as adding three feet of rebar and then concreting over it. If I had spoken after the concrete was poured it would have been different. 4: Your actual construction has been going on for just over 6 weeks and they are waiting for the plasterers. That, my friend, is a very rapid construction of a pool. You are 75% done. After the plasterers is the finish plumbing (attaching the fixtures), the decking, filling the pool and setup and cleanup. My construction took twice as long. What would delay a constructionproject? The biggest headaches are: supplies and materials availablity and labor availability. Neither of these seems to be much of an issue in your project. In my experience, Blue Haven does top-notch work and by what you have posted you really don't have much to complain about. You say to ask for a "Liquidated Damages" provision in the contract. I will tell you now that you will not get it. You seem to be in some kind of hurry for the pool to be done fast, instead of being done right.

I am the Controller of a Construction Company (no, not Blue Haven and we do not build pools). BTW, my pool was built 3 years ago by Blue Haven here in Tucson AZ. The "problems" you describe are typical of construction with the following exceptions: 1: I am surprised to say the least that they showed up to start work before the outline was spray painted and you had signed off on a final plan. When Blue Haven built my pool they spray painted the outline on the ground a full week before any actual construction work started. I signed off on a final plan before the spray painting. That's the way it's supposed to go. 2: That a salesperson would go on vacation in the Northeast in the summer is not surprising - most pools there are actually sold in the winter and spring. Your discussions began in February. Once the contracts are signed the Salesman is pretty much out of the picture and you talk with the Construction Superintendent. Here in Arizona, where pools are sold and built all year it's different. 3: Once a set of plans is filed and the Building Permit is issued, any changes constitute a Change Order which may or may not increase the cost - depending on what the Order is and when it is requested. I had a Change Order where I requested taht two shelfs in my pool (one in the deep end and the other nearby under the Rock Feature) be joined to a sigle shelf. I discovered it when the rebars were put in and it was a no-charge change order since all it entailed as adding three feet of rebar and then concreting over it. If I had spoken after the concrete was poured it would have been different. 4: Your actual construction has been going on for just over 6 weeks and they are waiting for the plasterers. That, my friend, is a very rapid construction of a pool. You are 75% done. After the plasterers is the finish plumbing (attaching the fixtures), the decking, filling the pool and setup and cleanup. My construction took twice as long. What would delay a constructionproject? The biggest headaches are: supplies and materials availablity and labor availability. Neither of these seems to be much of an issue in your project. In my experience, Blue Haven does top-notch work and by what you have posted you really don't have much to complain about. You say to ask for a "Liquidated Damages" provision in the contract. I will tell you now that you will not get it. You seem to be in some kind of hurry for the pool to be done fast, instead of being done right.