- Report: #33760
Complaint Review: Showcase Honda - Phoenix Arizona
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Showcase Honda
Camelback Road. Phoenix, AZ Phoenix, Arizona, U.S.A.
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Showcase Honda ripoff dishonest deceptive bribery Phoenix Arizona
*Consumer Comment: I hope that more people complain about dealership rip offs
*Consumer Suggestion: want some research that will help you?
*Consumer Comment: Car sales rip off, Can you tell me what to look for
*Consumer Suggestion: Why Did You Reward Them?
*Consumer Suggestion: Yes I can tell you what to look out for. Read on!
The following is a copy of a letter I sent to American Honda Customer Service. I have never been contacted regarding this letter!
On 8/11/02 my husband and I purchased a Honda Accord at Showcase Honda in Phoenix. The following is a list of problems we had with our transaction:
Advertised Pricing
We chose showcase Honda because they had a newspaper ad for the 2002 Accord EX for $18,988. When we began negotiations with the salesman, Brent Walden, he said he had to charge us for the dealer options (Showcase Package) that were added to the car and for window tinting. After much negotiating we agreed to pay $19,400 for the car with $6,000 for our trade-ins (although the contract was written up with a purchase price of $19,600 and $6,200 for trade-ins). Before we went into the finance office, we were presented with a contract that included the usual tax, title, license and document preparation fees, in addition to a charge of $199.95 for Automate, which we never requested or were offered. When we asked Brent what Automate was, he said it was a paint protection plan.
We told him we did not want it, but he said we had to pay for it, because it had already been applied to the car once.
Although, we were not aware of it at the time of purchase, after doing some research a couple of days later, we discovered that the Better Business Bureau's Advertising Guidelines for car dealers states:
When a vehicle is advertised for sale, the stated price should be the full price you will pay for that vehicle. The only additional costs you should expect to pay are tax, title and license fees, and reasonable document preparation fees. You should not expect to pay more for such things as freight advertising or marketing assessments, any paint protection package, or any dealer options; these extra costs should be included in the price of the vehicle advertised.
In other words, we should have only paid the advertised price of $18,988 plus tax, title, license and document preparation fees. We should not have been charged for dealer options, window tinting or paint protection.
Monthly Payment Calculation /Contract Negotiation In the finance office we were told that our monthly payment was at $258. We were offered a service contract and theft guard for $700.00 or $12 more per month. We declined. We had already been there for almost 5 hours and just wanted to close the deal and go home. Then a manager came in, and offered us the service contract and theft guard for only $2 more a month, bringing our payment to $260. Of course, we thought this was a great deal for only $2 a month. Who wouldn't?
On Tuesday, September 13, I was looking over the contract and had noticed that we had actually been charged $1000 for the service contract and $500 for the theft guard. I calculated what our monthly payment would have been without these additional items, and found the payment would have only been $231 per month, not the $258 we were told. I called Showcase Honda, and explained to Adam that we were charged $1500 extra, not the $2 we were told, and that our original payment was only $231, not $258. He said I would need to speak to the manager that closed the deal and he would give him a message to call me.
The next day, Wednesday, September 14, I had not received a call from the manager yet, so I called Showcase again and was told that the manager would not be in again until the following Monday. I told the receptionist my problem and she transferred me to James, the Director of Finance. I explained the situation to him and he told me he would have to pull my file and get back to me. After waiting most of the day for him to call me back, I finally got a hold of him, and he told me that he had to stop all of our paper work from going out, and that I was correct about the monthly payment. He asked us to come back in to sign a new contract.
When I asked James why they had quoted us a monthly payment of $258, he explained that they quote your monthly payment as higher than the amount needed to cover the purchase price of the car, so that they can sell you a warranty for only a few dollars more than they quoted. By telling us that our monthly payment was $258, and not $231, it appeared as if we were getting the service contract and theft guard for a mere $2 extra.
James wrote up a new contract, in which we decided to purchase the service warranty for $1000 and the theft guard, which he offered to us at $71. He said he could not give us a better price on the warranty because it was so close to cost and they weren't making any money off of it.
I am thankful to James for listening to our problem and offering us a new contract.
Service Contract (extended warranty)
We were told by both Adam (on the day we purchased the car) and by James that if we never used the service agreement over the 72 month contract period, we would get a full refund, so we figured we had nothing to lose by purchasing the contract.
On 8/15/02, after speaking with my father, who couldn't believe that we could get a full refund at the end of the contract, I decided to read the fine print of the service contract and found that while you could get a full refund before 30 days, or a prorated refund minus $50 after 30 days, it did not say that if you never used the warranty, you could get a full refund. I called Showcase again to inquire about this and was transferred to Tina. I left a message on her voice mail, simply stating that I had a question about the warranty, and my name and number. Days went by and she never called back. At this point I have decided that I will cancel the warranty within 30 days for a full refund, and today I sent a certified letter to Showcase Honda stating this.
I have also discovered via the Internet that Honda Care offers a similar warranty for $930.00. We were never offered a Honda Care warranty.
Theft Guard
During our meeting with Adam on the day we purchased the car, we were told that the theft guard covered $4500 if your car was stolen and $2500 if the car was found within 30 days. Two days later, I noticed the contract provided only $3000 for the stolen car. The remaining $1500 would come in the form of rental car reimbursement, trip interruption reimbursement, etc. This is not how it was presented to us.
Honda Survey Bribe
Both Brent and Adam told us that Honda would call us for a survey. They said that if we gave them all 5's on the survey we would receive a free oil change once they received the survey results from Honda. Brent told us he would not receive a bonus if he didn't get a good survey.
On Monday, September 12, I called Brent and told him that I didn't feel comfortable giving all 5's on the survey, because he was not up front with me about the Automate paint protection. I felt that I should be somehow compensated for the extra charge. He said he would give me two more free oil changes, but only when he received the survey back with all 5's. A $200 charge for paint protection is not worth two lousy oil changes.
Anyhow, after all the problems we had, the last place we would take the car for an oil change is Showcase Honda.
I received my survey call from American Honda today. I told the girl everything I have outlined here and I did not give the salesman or the dealership high scores
Double Charge of Credit Card for Down Payment
Additionally, on the morning of 8/15/02, I discovered that Showcase Honda had charged my credit card twice for $3000. It should have only been one charge of $3000 for our down payment. I called and was transferred to Josie. I left her a voice mail, telling her the problem and asked her to call me back that day. She never called. I also called James, the Director of Finance, and let him know that this had happened. The next morning I called Josie again and luckily she answered the phone. She was very helpful, but didn't give me any indication that she had received my message from the day before. Josie agreed to look into it and called me back that afternoon to let me know my account would be credited for $3000.
Cargo Net
After test-driving the car, I asked our salesman, Brent, if the car came with a cargo net. He said that if it didn't he would get me one. After we purchased the car, he gave us the cargo net. Two day later, I discovered that there were no hooks or any type of attachments in the trunk for the cargo net. On 8/14 when we returned to the dealership and asked if a salesman could show us how to install the cargo net, he told us that only the coupe came with a cargo net, and that there was no place to attach it in our sedan. I don't know if this is actually true because I have seen a cargo net for the sedan for sale on two web sites. I would think that the salespeople should have a better knowledge of their product.
Documentation Fee
We were charged a documentation fee of $289.99. When I look at records from past cars I have purchased, the documentation fees were $85 and $150. Our salesman Brent claimed we were getting a good deal with the $289.99, because legally the state of Arizona allowed them to charge up to $320. According to the car web site, www.edmunds.com, $50 is a reasonable charge for documentation, $250 is not.
Hopefully, I will not have any further problems with Showcase Honda, and my $1000 for the warranty will be refunded without incident. It is unfortunate that Honda is represented by such a dealership. They are doing a great job perpetuating car dealers' negative reputations.
Thank you GREAT THORN for telling me about this website!
J.
Phoenix, Arizona
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Honda & Honda Delaers
On 8/11/02 my husband and I purchased a Honda Accord at Showcase Honda in Phoenix. The following is a list of problems we had with our transaction:
Advertised Pricing
We chose showcase Honda because they had a newspaper ad for the 2002 Accord EX for $18,988. When we began negotiations with the salesman, Brent Walden, he said he had to charge us for the dealer options (Showcase Package) that were added to the car and for window tinting. After much negotiating we agreed to pay $19,400 for the car with $6,000 for our trade-ins (although the contract was written up with a purchase price of $19,600 and $6,200 for trade-ins). Before we went into the finance office, we were presented with a contract that included the usual tax, title, license and document preparation fees, in addition to a charge of $199.95 for Automate, which we never requested or were offered. When we asked Brent what Automate was, he said it was a paint protection plan.
We told him we did not want it, but he said we had to pay for it, because it had already been applied to the car once.
Although, we were not aware of it at the time of purchase, after doing some research a couple of days later, we discovered that the Better Business Bureau's Advertising Guidelines for car dealers states:
When a vehicle is advertised for sale, the stated price should be the full price you will pay for that vehicle. The only additional costs you should expect to pay are tax, title and license fees, and reasonable document preparation fees. You should not expect to pay more for such things as freight advertising or marketing assessments, any paint protection package, or any dealer options; these extra costs should be included in the price of the vehicle advertised.
In other words, we should have only paid the advertised price of $18,988 plus tax, title, license and document preparation fees. We should not have been charged for dealer options, window tinting or paint protection.
Monthly Payment Calculation /Contract Negotiation In the finance office we were told that our monthly payment was at $258. We were offered a service contract and theft guard for $700.00 or $12 more per month. We declined. We had already been there for almost 5 hours and just wanted to close the deal and go home. Then a manager came in, and offered us the service contract and theft guard for only $2 more a month, bringing our payment to $260. Of course, we thought this was a great deal for only $2 a month. Who wouldn't?
On Tuesday, September 13, I was looking over the contract and had noticed that we had actually been charged $1000 for the service contract and $500 for the theft guard. I calculated what our monthly payment would have been without these additional items, and found the payment would have only been $231 per month, not the $258 we were told. I called Showcase Honda, and explained to Adam that we were charged $1500 extra, not the $2 we were told, and that our original payment was only $231, not $258. He said I would need to speak to the manager that closed the deal and he would give him a message to call me.
The next day, Wednesday, September 14, I had not received a call from the manager yet, so I called Showcase again and was told that the manager would not be in again until the following Monday. I told the receptionist my problem and she transferred me to James, the Director of Finance. I explained the situation to him and he told me he would have to pull my file and get back to me. After waiting most of the day for him to call me back, I finally got a hold of him, and he told me that he had to stop all of our paper work from going out, and that I was correct about the monthly payment. He asked us to come back in to sign a new contract.
When I asked James why they had quoted us a monthly payment of $258, he explained that they quote your monthly payment as higher than the amount needed to cover the purchase price of the car, so that they can sell you a warranty for only a few dollars more than they quoted. By telling us that our monthly payment was $258, and not $231, it appeared as if we were getting the service contract and theft guard for a mere $2 extra.
James wrote up a new contract, in which we decided to purchase the service warranty for $1000 and the theft guard, which he offered to us at $71. He said he could not give us a better price on the warranty because it was so close to cost and they weren't making any money off of it.
I am thankful to James for listening to our problem and offering us a new contract.
Service Contract (extended warranty)
We were told by both Adam (on the day we purchased the car) and by James that if we never used the service agreement over the 72 month contract period, we would get a full refund, so we figured we had nothing to lose by purchasing the contract.
On 8/15/02, after speaking with my father, who couldn't believe that we could get a full refund at the end of the contract, I decided to read the fine print of the service contract and found that while you could get a full refund before 30 days, or a prorated refund minus $50 after 30 days, it did not say that if you never used the warranty, you could get a full refund. I called Showcase again to inquire about this and was transferred to Tina. I left a message on her voice mail, simply stating that I had a question about the warranty, and my name and number. Days went by and she never called back. At this point I have decided that I will cancel the warranty within 30 days for a full refund, and today I sent a certified letter to Showcase Honda stating this.
I have also discovered via the Internet that Honda Care offers a similar warranty for $930.00. We were never offered a Honda Care warranty.
Theft Guard
During our meeting with Adam on the day we purchased the car, we were told that the theft guard covered $4500 if your car was stolen and $2500 if the car was found within 30 days. Two days later, I noticed the contract provided only $3000 for the stolen car. The remaining $1500 would come in the form of rental car reimbursement, trip interruption reimbursement, etc. This is not how it was presented to us.
Honda Survey Bribe
Both Brent and Adam told us that Honda would call us for a survey. They said that if we gave them all 5's on the survey we would receive a free oil change once they received the survey results from Honda. Brent told us he would not receive a bonus if he didn't get a good survey.
On Monday, September 12, I called Brent and told him that I didn't feel comfortable giving all 5's on the survey, because he was not up front with me about the Automate paint protection. I felt that I should be somehow compensated for the extra charge. He said he would give me two more free oil changes, but only when he received the survey back with all 5's. A $200 charge for paint protection is not worth two lousy oil changes.
Anyhow, after all the problems we had, the last place we would take the car for an oil change is Showcase Honda.
I received my survey call from American Honda today. I told the girl everything I have outlined here and I did not give the salesman or the dealership high scores
Double Charge of Credit Card for Down Payment
Additionally, on the morning of 8/15/02, I discovered that Showcase Honda had charged my credit card twice for $3000. It should have only been one charge of $3000 for our down payment. I called and was transferred to Josie. I left her a voice mail, telling her the problem and asked her to call me back that day. She never called. I also called James, the Director of Finance, and let him know that this had happened. The next morning I called Josie again and luckily she answered the phone. She was very helpful, but didn't give me any indication that she had received my message from the day before. Josie agreed to look into it and called me back that afternoon to let me know my account would be credited for $3000.
Cargo Net
After test-driving the car, I asked our salesman, Brent, if the car came with a cargo net. He said that if it didn't he would get me one. After we purchased the car, he gave us the cargo net. Two day later, I discovered that there were no hooks or any type of attachments in the trunk for the cargo net. On 8/14 when we returned to the dealership and asked if a salesman could show us how to install the cargo net, he told us that only the coupe came with a cargo net, and that there was no place to attach it in our sedan. I don't know if this is actually true because I have seen a cargo net for the sedan for sale on two web sites. I would think that the salespeople should have a better knowledge of their product.
Documentation Fee
We were charged a documentation fee of $289.99. When I look at records from past cars I have purchased, the documentation fees were $85 and $150. Our salesman Brent claimed we were getting a good deal with the $289.99, because legally the state of Arizona allowed them to charge up to $320. According to the car web site, www.edmunds.com, $50 is a reasonable charge for documentation, $250 is not.
Hopefully, I will not have any further problems with Showcase Honda, and my $1000 for the warranty will be refunded without incident. It is unfortunate that Honda is represented by such a dealership. They are doing a great job perpetuating car dealers' negative reputations.
Thank you GREAT THORN for telling me about this website!
J.
Phoenix, Arizona
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Honda & Honda Delaers
5 Updates & Rebuttals
Stick
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Yes I can tell you what to look out for. Read on!
#2Consumer Suggestion
Fri, March 26, 2004
First you have to always remember that the dirty car tricks and scams are never going to be revealed to you in a news story to help protect you. You also need to keep in mind that most auto rrelated web sites have only one main goal, that is to direct you to a car dealer in one way or another. So keep your guard UP and all times. Never say you have a friend in the business that is going to get you a great deal. You are just an easy sucker for your so called friend to increase the size of his or her pay check. Here in the valley many car dealers, not all but many like to make you think that you need some kind of extended warranty. They want you to think that an auto lender just might not finance your car deal unless you sucker up to an over priced warranty. Do not buy that scam! Most car dealers make most of their big money off of the crap their finance people try to sell you. Window etching, paint protection, security systems that are over priced, life insurance. you name it, they will try to cram it or hide it in your car buying contract. I have been helping a local law firm go after a few car dealers for sending falsified credit applications to auto lenders behind the car Buyer's back. Make sure that you and ONLY you fill out the credit application. Make sure no one else puts any of their hand writing on your credit application at all! If you do it the way I am telling you and a few months after your car has been approved, contact the lender and ask for a copy of your credit app. if the hand writing is NOT yours, you have a GREAT LAW SUIT! for FRAUD! Want proof it happens? http://miami.fbi.gov/pressrel/2003/mm070103.htm SEVEN INDIVIDUALS AND TWO AUTO DEALERSHIPS INDICTED FOR SCHEME TO SUBMIT FRAUDULENT AUTO LOAN DOCUMENTS Car dealers across the country love this little scam. They do it because many consumers want more then they can afford. If a car dealer's employees pad your income, lower your rent amount, and change a few other things, BAM! you have a car loan because of auto dealer deception. Next: about your credit and it's true value. The auto lenders like to see a credit report that is called a Experian/TRW. You might say it is the bench mark of the credit industry. They post on your credit report what is called "Fair Isaac Score" it goes up to 850 if you have score that is over 700, you have GREAT credit. in most cases you can have just about what ever kind of loan you want. You need to first go to a credit union and become a member. Then apply for an auto loan. You will most always get a much better rate if you go to a credit union. Most, not all car dealers will rip you off if you let their team get you a car loan. By the way, don't be too fast to believe all of the car dealer advertisements that you read in the newspapers. Most not all ads are just packed with hidden lies and hooks to sucker you in to a rip off. I hate these off site tent sales. Most car dealers will only take their strongest sales people to those tent sales. Never buy a car from a tent sale. If you like high pressure and don't care what can happen, then by all means to run to your next tent event. Next: I will ask that you go to the following web sites and read what has happened to car buyers. You will soon find that you have to never let your guard down. Also: don't take your friend or your daddy unless they sold cars for at lease 12 months. If you take someone that has never sold cars with you, they will hurt you not help you. Scams are hidden not out for you to see. You must never think that you have 3 days to bring a car back if for any reason that you do not like your car deal. Trust me you do NOT have a 3 day cooling off period in this state. Most but not all people that pass laws like big campaign money from car dealers, so they are not willing to pass a 3 day cooling off period, so if for any reason you do not like your car deal you can bring it back and do what is called an unwind. Car dealers have the pwoer to unwind a car deal befor it gets funded if they want to unwind it. I am not saying that the dealer in this report mentioned below is a bad car dealer. I just want you to read the report. I was told that he wanted to be removed from lease and put into a purchase the next day after he bought the truck he bought. In this report you will sadly find that he is no longer with us. I was told by his family member that he could not handle the pressure and he took his life after is wish was denied. Read the whole report to understand what happened from what a family member said and posted. http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff36168.htm Next, I want you to go to the following web sites and read what I think is very informative for a car buyer. Read these real good that then ask this question. "Hey would a local newspaper ever do a story on cases like these? If you want me to post more helpful info that will protect you, Just post a request. everything below is what I found on the net. Before you sign any documentation, go to a second car dealer and see what they can do. Check this out! Car dealer is being sued over shutoff device http://www.th-record.com/1999/08/14/carpayme.htm Want more to check out? Dealer's Separate Spot Delivery Agreement Violates Law http://www.carlaw.net/articles/spot.shtml Read this one. Dealer Required to Honor Erroneous Advertised Price http://www.carlaw.net/articles/mistake.shtml I hope you all have fun reading these! NORTH COUNTRY CAR DEALER SUED OVER DUBIOUS BUSINESS PRACTICES http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/oct/oct26a_00.html ILLINOIS AUTO DEALER FOUND GUILTY OF FRAUD http://www.krohnandmoss.com/news/pr.asp?id=11 http://miami.fbi.gov/pressrel/2003/mm070103.htm SEVEN INDIVIDUALS AND TWO AUTO DEALERSHIPS INDICTED FOR SCHEME TO SUBMIT FRAUDULENT AUTO LOAN DOCUMENTS http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/1224202003_new07motion.asp The Ohio Attorney General's office has filed a motion asking a judge to force a Marietta auto dealer to speak with the state's lawyers about charges he defrauded the state and consumers. http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ins/pressrelease/wcollr/08112000_1.htm Zionsville Auto Dealer Sentenced to Prison for $1.7 Million Bank Fraud http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/09/national/main587622.shtml Fraud Rampant At Auto Dealerships Auto Sales Fraud Case http://www.consumervoiceusa.com/HotTopicsHTML/SubTopic-D/AutoPurchasing/InTheNews.html http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/may/may30b_01.html USED CAR DEALERSHIP SUED FOR FRAUD Spitzer's Office Finds Altered Titles and False Sales Claims Car dealer sued over car timer http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/081499/new_exlion.html AUTO DEALER SUED FOR RENEGING ON DEAL http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/nov/nov07b_02.html Auto Financing Charges May Cost a Billion http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/0104/121636.html Court accepts case addressing lawsuit limits over loan deals http://www5.cnn.com/2004/LAW/01/20/scotus.carloans.ap/ Do you think a newspaper would do a story on the above info? I hope all who read what I post find it all informative! I would like to know why I can find any cases like these in this state? Maybe this state goes much easier on car dealers!
Jim
Orlando,Florida,
U.S.A.
Why Did You Reward Them?
#3Consumer Suggestion
Fri, March 26, 2004
Over and over again, people go thru the long litany of how bad they were treated, defrauded, etc, etc, etc and knowing this going into the deal they REWARD the dealer by STILL giving them their business! Incredible!!! I doubt very much this is the only car dealership within 100 miles of you! No, I won't tell you what you want to hear because you made some major league mistakes here that clearly showed this dealer you were willing to play "doormat". If the figures on the contract were not right, why did you proceed? They didn't keep you there five hours, YOU STAYED! Why did you read the contract AFTER the fact? Yes, you were treated poorly but you asked for it! Go ahead, get mad at me but the bottom line is these schlock operations continue because people don't have the guts to WALK OUT! They play doormat and then cry bloody murder after the fact. Learn from this... If they lie on the contract, you're dealing with liars! Read the contract BEFORE you sign it. In fact, ask them to make you a copy of the filled out, unsigned contract to take home and read. If they won't do that...WALK OUT! Never rely on the salesman to tell you what the contract says...read the damned thing yourself! People, the government or any organization won't put crooks out of business soon enough. Its up to us, (you and me) to NOT play doormat and not to be "car crazy". We have two feet. Lets use them. JT
Holly
Mesa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
Car sales rip off, Can you tell me what to look for
#4Consumer Comment
Thu, March 25, 2004
I'm not a very trusting person in general and not very nieve. I have already been down that road of trying to negoiate with a car salesman and i told them either i get what i want or no deal and they jus kept trying to keep me there till i finally said take me back to my car,( we had drove the car for sale to another lot of theirs)and that i wanted to go home period. I now want to find out what shouldn't be on a contract and what to look for so i can correct them before signing any paperwork. I really don't want to get stuck with a bogus deal. I take it that you were a car salesmen, right? Can you tell me what to look for?
Stick
Phoenix,Arizona,
U.S.A.
want some research that will help you?
#5Consumer Suggestion
Thu, March 25, 2004
I tell would be car buyers to spend more time on the net and less time on a car lot. if you spend some time on the net you can become a very informed consumer. Most car sales people want you to like them. They want you to feel real cozy with them. Once you like or trust a sales person, you are in trouble. If you like a sales person they then have the needed power to get what they want from you. When I sold cars I found that the car buyers that liked me put the most money in my pocket. The car buyers that did not like me got a better deal. They were out to do what ever it took to save money, they did not come to the lot to make friends. Once you get to a car lot, Pick out a sales person that reeks, talks a lot of BS or crap, maybe a sales person that reminds you of someone you can't stand at all. If you do not like him or her and you let them know that you don't like them, you will get a better car deal. it is wise for a consumer to keep this in mind. if a person that is trying to sell you something trys to act like they like you, they are sucking up so they can get you into an "unsafe comfort zone" once they get you into a unsafe comfort zone, your guard is down and you are in trouble. It's a ploy so you will give up your hard earned money. Let's face it, thats the only thing they want. If they find that you have no money, no job or no cosigner. They will soon Lot drop you. Wake up America and stop giving your money away!
Holly
Mesa,Arizona,
U.S.A.
I hope that more people complain about dealership rip offs
#6Consumer Comment
Tue, March 23, 2004
Thank you for letting people know about showcase honda and their scams. I myself are researching to buy a new car in about the next six months, even though it won't be a honda, i like to have an idea what fees on a new vehicle contract should look like. I hope that more people complain about dealership rip offs to let the public know.
