TRUS JOIST MACMILLAN OREGON ENGINEERED LUMBER PRODUCTS
TWO YEARS AGO I ADDED A LARGE ADDITION TO OUR HOUSE, A 1200 SQ.FT APARTMENT UP STAIRS, A 500 SQ.FT. FAMILY RM. DOWN, AND A GARAGE. I BOUGHT MY LUMBER PACKAGE THROUGH A LOCAL LUMBER YARD IN MY AREA, (PORTLAND, OREGON) CALLED PARR LUMBER.
PARR ALSO DID THE TAKE OFF FOR TJI FLOOR JOIST SYSTEM (TRUS JOIST MACMILLAN), IT'S A ENGINEERED LUMBER PRODUCT MADE FOR SUPPORTING FLOORS, YOU HAVE PROBABLY HEARD OF IT? "THE SILENT FLOOR", THE SILENT PART DEPENDS ON WHERE YOUR STANDING, WHEN YOUR OUT SIDE IT'S SILENT. PARR DID THE TAKE OFF AND FURNISHED ME WITH A FLOOR FRAMING PLAN, AND MATERIAL LIST OF SIZE AND TYPES OF TJI FLOOR JOISTS. THEY ARRIVED AT THESE SIZES FOR FLOOR JOISTS BY USING A SOFTWARE PROGRAM FURNISHED TO THEM BY TJI (TRUS JOIST MACMILLAN).
I TRUSTED THERE EXPERTISE IN THIS MATTER. THERE IS A RECOMENDED WAY IN WHICH YOU ARE TO HANDLE AND ALSO INSTALL THEM, ALTHOUGH PARR DIDN'T HANDLE THEM CORRECTLY (LAYED THEM ON THERE SIDE) WE INSTALLED THEM AS PER. INSTRUCTIONS. THE HOUSE IS DONE, AND IT LOOKS GREAT, BUT THERE ARE A FEW PROBLEMS, THE CEILING IN THE FAMILY RM. (WHICH IS ALSO THE UPSTAIRS LIV. RM. FLOOR) DEFLECTS OR BOUNCES TO THE POINT THAT YOU WONDER ABOUT THE SAFETY OF THE FLOOR. THE CEILING FAN BLADES IN THE FAMILY RM. BOUNCE UP AND DOWN AS FOOT STEPS CROSS THE FLOOR UPSTAIRS.
IN SHORT THE CEILING DEFLECTS A LOT, IS IT SAFE? ACCORDING TO STATE AND LOCAL CODES, PARR LUMBER, AND TRUS JOIST MACMILLAN YES. I'M NO ENGINEER, I KNOW THAT LONG SPANS ON BRIDGES CAN FLEX ALOT AND STILL BE SAFE, SO MAYBE SAFETY OF MY FLOOR IS NOT AN ISSUE. WHEN I ASKED PARR WHY MY FLOOR JOIST WERE SO BOUNCY, THEY REPLIED THAT AT THE TIME WHEN MY TAKE OFF WAS DONE THEY HAD A PERSON DOING TAKE OFF'S WHO WAS GOING FOR THE LOW END OF THE ENGINEERING CURVE (MINIMUM ALLOWABLE SIZE ) IN ORDER TO KEEP THE COST DOWN, AND GET MORE PEOPLE TO BY FROM THEM BECAUSE OF THERE LOW BID ON MATERIALS. THEY LATER SAID NO, THAT THAT PERSON DIDN'T DO MY TAKE OFF. PARR SAID THAT I MUST HAVE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT PRICES AT THE TIME, AND I MUST HAVE DECIDED TO GO WITH A LESS EXPENSIVE TRUS JOISTS, WELL I WAS NEVER CONSULTED ABOUT THERE BEING ANY DIFFERENCES IN PRICE, OR SIZING OF JOIST.
THEY ALSO SAID THAT I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE" TJI EXPERT FRAMING LAYOUT" THEY DID FOR ME TO A ENGINEER, AND HAD HIM CHECK IT. THE MAIN PROBLEM IS THIS, THE JOIST WILL PROBABLY WILL NEVER BREAK, BUT BECAUSE THEY FLEX SO MUCH,THEY TEND TO MOVE ON THE TOP PLATE ON EACH OUTSIDE WALL, AND WHEN WOOD MOVES AGAINST WOOD IT SQUEAKS, AND THE CEILING REALLY DEFLECTS, AND THE CEILING FAN BOUNCES, IT'S VERY DISTURBING . BY THE WAY THE SPAN IS 22' OVER OUR LIV.RM. WHERE THE TROUBLE IS, THE SPAN OVER THE GARAGE IS 20' AND USES THE SAME GRADE TJI JOIST, AND IT PERFORMS WELL.
IF THEY WOULD HAVE SAID TO ME AT THE TIME OF ORDERING THE JOIST THAT THEY WERE BOTTOM OF THE CURVE AS FAR AS STRENGTH, OR WOULD DEFLECT A LOT, OR WOULD HAVE OFFERED ME A CHOICE OF HOW I WANTED A FLOOR OR CEILING TO PERFORM. I WOULD HAVE AT LEAST HAD A CHOICE. I WOULDN'T HAVE ORDERED THEM KNOWING THEY WERE BOTTOM OF THE CURVE, I TRUSTED THERE JUDGEMENT, TO BAD FOR ME. I GOT ON THE NET ONE NIGHT AND LOOKED UP ENGINEERED LUMBER AND CAME ACROSSED BOISE CASCADE WEB SITE,THEY TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TELLING THERE CUSTOMERS THE DIFFERING SIZES, AND STRENGTHS OF FLOOR JOIST, MAKING SURE A PERSON KNOWS WHAT TO EXPECT OUT OF THERE CHOICE.
I WISH PARR OR TRUS JOIST MACMILLAN WOULD DO THE SAME. IF YOU KNOW OF ANY ONE WHO IS GOING TO USE SILENT FLOOR SYSTEM, OR SOMETHING LIKE IT YOU MIGHT TELL THEM TO TAKE CARE TO HAVE THE DIFFERENT DEFELECTIONS EXPLAINED TO THEM,SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE A GOOD CHOICE. ALSO IF YOU KNOW ANYONE EALSE WHO HAS HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS, HAVE THEM CONTACT ME AT CAMEOBOB@USWEST.NET , I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT RUN AROUND THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN, OR WHAT RESOLUTIONS THEY MAY HAVE COME UP WITH.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME BOB
2 Updates & Rebuttals
Michael@4m4solutions
Sherwood,Oregon,
U.S.A.
Experience is key
#3Consumer Suggestion
Thu, July 17, 2008
Robert,
I am sorry to hear about your experience with the TrusJoist product line and its level of performance in your project. My name is Mike and I have been designing engineered floor systems using TrusJoist products for nearly 10 years in project types mainly related to but no limited to residential construction. Not that it will aid you much now, being some 8 years later, as you indicated, it is important to know that education on engineered lumber product is a key factor when using them. All aspects of the product should be taken into account when using them in a specific application. Cost, performance, your needs as the home owner or builder, all of these areas need to be considered. Of course all of which need to be explain up front before your floor system is designed, this will help to ensure the finished product will be satisfactory.
The sales person should have asked you several questions to help dial in your needs or put you in front of the actual floor designer (TJ Xpert) to explain what it was you were expecting for floor performance. All too often when plans are submitted for floor design the sales person knows that many times what a person is looking for is the bottom line price, which in this case maybe an additional $600 to $1200(estimate) more in material to provide you with a better floor may have been a minor issue compared to your overall happiness for this addition.
On your TJ Xpert Layout somewhere is a box titled LEVEL NOTES, in this box it will have many pieces of vital information that will tell you how well your floor performs. In this case the most relevant items on the list are the Maximum Joist Deflection which should be L/360 or higher for Live Load and the TJ-Pro Rating Information it will have the Average, Low, and the High ratings ranging from 0 to ??. the higher the number the better the floor. Over the years I have set a minimum standard of floor rating at no less than a Pro Rating of 40. This rating teeters on the edge of having an acceptable performance while offering the best economy, though a number may be as low as 5 and still meet all regulatory floor deflection codes and requirements, it will have excessive bounce, squeaks, and or vibrate (fan issue). For long span's(anything over 18') the number I use for the pro rating jumps from 40 to a minimum of 48 or higher. Because of the longer spans and the increase in wood material, it is more difficult to design a floor that doesn't perform poorly.
Depending on how unhappy you are with your floor and what the conditions are I may have a few different solutions to remedy the poor performance of your floor. That's if, of course, you are still residing there.
Feel free to contact Mike at: 4m4solutions@mail.com with any questions.
Brian
Salem,New Hampshire,
U.S.A.
Research, research, research
#3Consumer Suggestion
Sat, April 26, 2003
I am a remodeling contractor building additions and great rooms etc. I have recently been moving toward engineered lumber for some of my larger projects, but I am not an expert on engineered lumber which forces me to rely on "other experts" for my information and specification on the subject.
Unfortunately, at times I have found that the person providing me with the ever important specifications (usually a lumber desk clerk) knows less than I do about a specific application and simply relies on a chart in a book behind the counter.
What I do is ask to see the charts etc. they are relying on, double check my own information and check that it is applied properly to the charts. Once I am comfortable with that, I take all the information and do my own research either with an engineer or on my own. Most engineered lumber mfgs. have specifications on their web pages or you can find books on the subject or even find a local contractor who is experienced on the subject and they may be willing to help.
What this person has gone through is unfortunate, and worst of all, floor framing problems etc. are all but impossible (and most certainly very expensive) to rectify once finished floor and ceiling surfaces have been installed.
I have used various types of engineered lumber and have not had any problems to date, however I have made sure that what I use is more than sufficient for the application.
There is no alternative to good research when using any product that is engineered for a particular purpose.